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Author Topic: This could become rants, raves, & rumors
TheMoMan
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Icon 1 posted January 06, 2008 13:48      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
_____________________ Okay because this is truly an international forum, how does everybody weigh in on a flat point of sale tax versious the USA income tax?

One of the political candidates has proposed this for the USA with an income based return on the tax.

I myself feel that it should not be on food stuffs or medical, dental. Then a luxury tax on very expensive items.

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Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.


Benjamin Franklin,

Posts: 5848 | From: Just South of the Huron National Forest, in the water shed of the Rifle River | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
Ashitaka

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Icon 1 posted January 06, 2008 13:57      Profile for Ashitaka     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
What is a flat point of sales tax? Is it like a sales tax that doesn't vary with the price of a good. All but two states already have a sales taxes.

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"If they're not gonna make a distinction between Muslims and violent extremists, then why should I take the time to distinguish between decent, fearful white people and racists?"

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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted January 06, 2008 15:38      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
(one of) The problem(s) with replacing income taxes with sales taxes is that it gives people an incentive to spend their money outside the country.

You septics have very long borders with Canada and Mexico, all those border state residents can just drive across the border and spend all their money there, and pay NO (American) tax.

Doesn't America have enough of a balance of trade problem already?

btw - here in oz, the previous government introduced a Goods and Services Tax (GST) some years back, to pay for income tax cuts for the rich. As a small business operator, (who did fairly well out of the income tax cut) I hate it with a passion. I'd gladly pay a few cents in the dollar more income tax to pay for its abolition.

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If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

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dragonman97

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Icon 1 posted January 06, 2008 15:38      Profile for dragonman97   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Sales tax is considered to be a regressive form of taxation. Higher sales tax can be viewed as extremely cruel to those who are just getting by - taking money out of their pockets just to get essential things. As Ash. already said - most states already have sales tax, and mind you, almost all of them do exempt essential commodities from taxation. And here in NY...boy do we get taxed. :-/ Income tax is /supposed/ to more fairly tax you, based on your income level -- though the tax cuts for the rich is certainly questionable... unless you're rich. [Razz]

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There are three things you can be sure of in life: Death, taxes, and reading about fake illnesses online...

Posts: 9332 | From: Westchester County, New York | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
TheMoMan
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Icon 1 posted January 07, 2008 03:47      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
____________________ Lets get past taxing food, medical, dental, & vision care. There would be no business tax, all goods would become tax free until sold in country of origin, if shiped out of country no tax on finished goods. So an imported item would be taxed at the same rate as a domestically made one. Right now here in the states all manufactured goods have a built in tax paid by the workers, manufacturing co. and property taxes on the business. Depending on item it varies from 1/6 to 1/4 of the wholesale price, That tax is built in already, That is one of the reasons that imported goods are so attractive to consumers.

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Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.


Benjamin Franklin,

Posts: 5848 | From: Just South of the Huron National Forest, in the water shed of the Rifle River | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
macmcseboy

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Icon 1 posted January 07, 2008 23:16      Profile for macmcseboy     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
ZOMG a GST in oz!!!! /me Blames Mulroney idolizers

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Ashitaka

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Icon 1 posted January 09, 2008 11:31      Profile for Ashitaka     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
redacted

I don't know why I posted that here

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"If they're not gonna make a distinction between Muslims and violent extremists, then why should I take the time to distinguish between decent, fearful white people and racists?"

-Assif Mandvi

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Colonel Panic
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Icon 1 posted January 10, 2008 19:43      Profile for Colonel Panic         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Sales tax is a regressive tax.

It also invokes the paradox of thrift, i.e. frugality stalls investment and spending.

Warren Buffet has suggested a Wealth Tax -- an actual tax on your assets. Such a tax would reward industrious behavior and penalize the idle rich -- you know trust fund babies, GW Bush type Faunleroys, Paris Hilton and the "Sweet Sixteen, What I didn't get a dozen new Lexus's for my birthday?" brats.

Let's quit taxing hard work, and start taxing idle wealth.

CP

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dragonman97

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Icon 1 posted January 10, 2008 21:18      Profile for dragonman97   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
So all the people who invest in Big Oil should get taxed less than the people who invest in secure savings? Yee-haw...nice to see responsible actions penalized. Living in debt with less taxation is just so much cooler.

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There are three things you can be sure of in life: Death, taxes, and reading about fake illnesses online...

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Colonel Panic
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Icon 1 posted January 10, 2008 22:31      Profile for Colonel Panic         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Dragonman,

Warren Buffet, when he discusses this approach, tells us that his secretary -- who makes an average salary -- pays more taxes than he does.

Welathy people through shrewed investment can show losses their entire lives and still make money and never pay taxes.

"Ye-haw" is that fair?

And if an average wage earner lives in debt too long, they become homeless.

I've been careful not to flame lately dragonman. So why don;t you be civil instead of advertising your stupidity and ignorance?

CP

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Posts: 1809 | From: Glacier Melt, USA | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
TheMoMan
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Icon 1 posted January 11, 2008 03:43      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
_____________________________ Here is the point I was trying to get at. Lets look at two items (cars, TVs, Washers, Dryers, Air conditioners) Those made in the USA have a built in tax (worker taxes, Manufactourer taxes and propertery taxes on the manufacturerer) the same item made outside our border does not support any infrastructure, schools or local taxes other than the sales taxes.

So I am saying if you have a choice and the item is close in price do you buy the item that has paid taxes already or shaft the communities that have the factorys where the domestic item was made? Now a point of sale tax effects all of the country equally and puts the non domestic items at the same price point. That is if the prices do go down because of no income tax.

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Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.


Benjamin Franklin,

Posts: 5848 | From: Just South of the Huron National Forest, in the water shed of the Rifle River | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted January 11, 2008 04:19      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I don't understand why you expect prices to drop with the introduction of a sales tax.

Lets say I'm running a small business, making $1,000/week now, and paying $300/week in tax, leaving me $700/week to live on.

Then the tax system changes, income tax is abolished, and replaced with a sales tax that raises the same revenue for the government.

So now I have to put up all my prices by the sales tax amount, I'm still taking home $1,000/week, and if I buy all the same things I bought last week, they'll cost me $700 + $300 sales tax = $1,000.

My my income hasn't changed, and the amount of tax I pay hasn't changed, so there's no 'saving' for me to pass on to my customers.

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If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

Posts: 10680 | From: Melbourne, Australia | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
TheMoMan
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Icon 1 posted January 11, 2008 05:37      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
_________________________ I am talkin about an End point of sale not on wholesale sales but on individual items. I just want to see Bill Gates taxed on the money he spends because he dodges taxes on his income as do most millionares.

Right now in the USA raw goods may or may not be taxed for use in manufacture, steel is not unless I go buy some steel to repair some of my farm equipment it may be taxed if I can prove that it is to be used in crop production, Plow snow with the steel and pay taxes on its cost. Same tractor different impliment.

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Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.


Benjamin Franklin,

Posts: 5848 | From: Just South of the Huron National Forest, in the water shed of the Rifle River | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
dragonman97

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Icon 1 posted January 11, 2008 07:50      Profile for dragonman97   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
CP...there was enough of an edge to your post that I reacted in kind. My apologies for not being 'civil.'

I took the 'industrious' in this: "Such a tax would reward industrious behavior and penalize the idle rich" to infer 'speculative, risky investment' (hence 'Big Oil') vs. careful spending (i.e. CDs, bonds, mutual funds). Perhaps you purely meant 'work an honest living' by 'industrious behavior' in which case, my jag does not necessarily apply.

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There are three things you can be sure of in life: Death, taxes, and reading about fake illnesses online...

Posts: 9332 | From: Westchester County, New York | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged


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