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Author Topic: Murdering sex offenders?
Stibbons
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Icon 1 posted December 11, 2007 10:00      Profile for Stibbons   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Registed sex offender murdered by neighbour to "protect" his child:

"I might as well have taken my child to some swamp filled with alligators and had them tear him to pieces. It's no different."

I know we've had arguments before about "Megan's Law", living near sex offenders and the general sickening hysteria of the masses when it comes to such matters (IQ of a mob = lowest IQ of a mob member / number of people in the mob?)*. But this is just rediculous - especially as it turns out the victim wasn't even a paedophile.

* Yes, I don't have children, so my views on this might change. However I see news reports just about every day of people being abused because they have a history of paedophilia, have the same name as a paedophile, or are just baselessly accused of paedophilia. People are released from prison because they've served their sentence, and although some might re-offend the majority just want to get on with their life. Let's get a grip here people.

Posts: 1143 | From: UK | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
TheMoMan
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Icon 1 posted December 11, 2007 10:11      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Stibbons ________________________-Herein lies the rub, they have paid their debt to Society. However have they reformed or only waited out their time? The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior, sorry. Now as to go and kill a human with out just cause that is murder.

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Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.


Benjamin Franklin,

Posts: 5848 | From: Just South of the Huron National Forest, in the water shed of the Rifle River | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
Stereo

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Icon 1 posted December 11, 2007 10:20      Profile for Stereo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I'll begin with this: pedophilia and most other sexual deviances are psychological; they are the result of a "warped" brain, and thus more like a disease than a "making a wrong decision" problem. Thus, sexual-deviant convicts have a very-high likelihood of re-offending, unless they receive some kind of treatments. It's not unheard of pedophiles to ask for chemical castration: their moral sense know what they are doing is wrong, but they can't stop being aroused by children.

On the other hand, not all sexual offenders suffer from sexual deviance. Many rapists do it against a particular person, as a vengeance or for other reasons. So in those cases, they are just as bad as killers, and their chances to re-offend are about the same.

That being said, I strongly believe that every human has the same right to live, and thus, killing a sexual offender (of the deviant or the criminal kind alike) is just as wrong as any other murder. So I hope the father will get tried, and get convicted, just as any other murderer. But I do know that emotions will blur the debate.

The only good thing that could come out of this is a rethinking of the sexual-offender list, and if sexually-deviant convicts should be treated the same as regular criminals. In my idea, they need psychological help more than jail time, but go tell that to the parent of the sexually-abused child...

To sum this up: rats! (to stay polite) Every sane person would have known it was doomed to happen at some time or another. But public outcry is heard more loudly than scientific opinion by the political ear.

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Eppur, si muove!

Galileo Galilei

Posts: 2289 | From: Gatineau, Quebec, Canada | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
ScholasticSpastic
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Icon 1 posted December 11, 2007 12:03      Profile for ScholasticSpastic     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I'd very much like to see more monies dedicated to studying the disorder and seeking more effective treatment for it. It would also be nice to explore early intervention as a means of breaking the pedophilic cycle. Rather than rounding up passive pedophiles (the downloaders and traders who don't actually manufacture the garbage) and putting them in prison, we should put them in research and treatment facilities. The overall effect would be the same: removal of the offender from society; but the benefits would be much greater because we might then be able to do more about a long-term solution to the problem. Also, treatment of the disorder as a disease rather than a crime allows for indefinite sentences that would be determined by treatment response instead of arbitrary sentences, thus decreasing the percentage who re-offend upon release. Active offenders could be given a mandatory-minimum treatment period to satisfy the legal penalties associated with the crime of abuse and then shifted to a treatment and evaluation schedule.

Offering treatment rather than imprisonment for the disease would also allow for voluntary commitment at treatment centers. There are probably a quite a few people suffering from a predisposition to pedophilia (probably often due to their own prior abuse) who might turn themselves in to a state-funded treatment program before if not after acting on their urges. I think we all know what happens to pedophiles in prison. If we removed the threat of frequent beatings and possible murder, we'd remove much of the current disincentive to coming forward for treatment. Abusing children is possibly the most heinous of crimes (or I may be biased because I'm a father) and I'd like to see more effort go into prevention- where it can actually help children- rather than the current vengeance-oriented system.

I really do think, also, that a cultural shift away from objectifying young girls in the media would help mollify the situation somewhat. Really, who else has noticed that the hyper-thin semi-androgenous supermodels shown rubbing against older men in multifarious commercials most resemble twelve-year-old girls? Constantly exposing the predisposed to tacit social acceptance of pedophilia can hardly be helping them avoid further immersion in their paraphilia. I would very much like to see more adult-looking women looking sexy in commercials. Yum.

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"As in repeating a well-known song, so in instincts, one action follows another by a sort of rhythm; if a person be interrupted in a song, or in repeating anything by rote, he is generally forced to go back to recover the habitual train of thought..." (Darwin, The Origin of Species)

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GrumpySteen

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Icon 1 posted December 11, 2007 13:19      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
[Dodele's] last attack was the 1987 knife-point rape of a 37-year-old woman on a Sonoma County beach.

when told that Dodele's victims were women and not children, Oliver seemed unfazed. "There is no curing the people that do it," he said.

he also said that he "would never change who I am or what I do because of what society thinks is right or not right. I have always been who I am and always will be."

Which is worse... the man who, raped a 37 year old woman and spent 20 years either imprisoned and undergoing psychiatric counselling or the man who is proud of the fact that he murdered another human and doesn't care that he committed that murder based on partially false information and implies that he would do it again regardless of what other people or our legal system say is right and wrong?

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Worst. Celibate. Ever.

Posts: 6364 | From: Tennessee | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged
Sxeptomaniac

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Icon 1 posted December 11, 2007 15:35      Profile for Sxeptomaniac   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Sexual predators (by that I mean those who actually have serial instances of preying on children) have become society's bogeymen. Some of the paranoia regarding sexual predators is really ridiculous at times. It's wise to be cautious, and to teach children likewise, but, statistically, most child sexual abuse by far is committed by a family member or friend, not a stranger.

We had quite a mob mentality going on here in Fresno a couple of years back over a sex offender who wanted to volunteer at her daughter's school. What that article doesn't say is that the woman had committed statutory rape 20 years prior, and had a completely clean record otherwise. The school officials knew she wasn't a danger, so they thought it would be OK. Unfortunately, many parents were screaming bloody murder over it, and they saw to it the woman was completely barred from the school.

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Let's pray that the human race never escapes from Earth to spread its iniquity elsewhere. - C. S. Lewis

Posts: 1590 | From: Fresno, CA | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged
nerdwithnofriends
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Icon 1 posted December 11, 2007 19:22      Profile for nerdwithnofriends     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
If the database hadn't contained incorrect information pertaining to the victim's crimes, would this even be a story?

Apparently it's okay to kill somebody who violates young children, but not grown women. If society really thinks these people are still a threat (and thus warrant a database about their collective crimes), why are they being let out of prison?

Why don't we have a system to publicly track murderers, car thieves, tax evaders, and conmen (conpeople?)? Surely they are more numerous than sex offenders.

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"The Buddha, the Godhead, resides quite as comfortably in the circuits of a digital computer or the gears of a cycle transmission as he does at the top of a mountain or in the petals of a flower." - Robert M. Pirsig

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YaYawoman

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Icon 1 posted December 14, 2007 05:06      Profile for YaYawoman     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Scholasticspastic

As a mother of teenage girl i agree that the objectifying of young girls needs to be stopped but not for the reasons you state. many many of the abused are young boys. That isnt going to help them.

I go over the safety issues with my children. They have a hard time grasping it I believe. I am still hammering at my daughter about the internet. Intellectually she grasps that just because soemone says they are a 14 year old girl with the same likes/dislikes they could very well be a predator I think that in her heart of hearts she is trusting/gullible.

My 7 year old son is a very trusting happy goofy sort. I dont know how much is getting through.

I apply healthcare's universal precaution approach. Prepare as if everyone could be an offender. No one "looks" like one, it spans income and age and gender etc. spans stranger, aquaintance and family as well. I do that while doing my best not to infect my kids with fear of the world.

I see it as one of my chief responsibilities as a parent, to protect them until they can reasonably protect themselves.

I would never kill someone, but I do use the offender list. I have lived in some skeevy places with my kids and it can help. If only to remind to keep your gaurd up. Several people that I know and have come into casual contact with me and my children have popped up on that list. IT has helped. (small town)

My primal response before filtering through the civilised portion of my brain is sequester them until they die.

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GrumpySteen

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Icon 1 posted December 14, 2007 09:28      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I hate to say it, but part of being a good parent is gradually destroying the naive trust that children have in the world and teaching them to be paranoid enough of other people's motivations to be safe without turning them into full blown anthropophobes.

I honestly think that, in some ways, Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy actually help do this in a less painful way by allowing parents to betray their children in a way that is avoids causing permanent harm to the parent-child relationship.

...

Oh, wait... I'm supposed to be the class clown.

Hey Erynthenerd... nice boobs! [Big Grin]

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Worst. Celibate. Ever.

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psycosoda
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Icon 1 posted December 20, 2007 10:16      Profile for psycosoda   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:

Why don't we have a system to publicly track murderers, car thieves, tax evaders, and conmen (conpeople?)? Surely they are more numerous than sex offenders.

On this, I have a theory: When some one commits a felony and they are convicted, tattoo in bold letters on to the felon's forehead, "CHILD-MOLESTER", or "MURDERER", et cetera according to their crime/(s) (i would imagine that some might need a list. at that point I'm sure you would move on to tattooing limbs). imagine the new born efficiency of society? yeah, maybe it is inhumane; but with the way society is going, we might as well make the leap.

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"ilya an quen ar quen an ilya!"

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Ugh, MightyClub
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Icon 1 posted December 20, 2007 12:05      Profile for Ugh, MightyClub     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by psycosoda:
quote:

Why don't we have a system to publicly track murderers, car thieves, tax evaders, and conmen (conpeople?)? Surely they are more numerous than sex offenders.

On this, I have a theory: When some one commits a felony and they are convicted, tattoo in bold letters on to the felon's forehead, "CHILD-MOLESTER", or "MURDERER", et cetera according to their crime/(s) (i would imagine that some might need a list. at that point I'm sure you would move on to tattooing limbs). imagine the new born efficiency of society? yeah, maybe it is inhumane; but with the way society is going, we might as well make the leap.
That's effectively the way justice worked in the American colonial days. One punishment in Williamsburg was to be put in the stocks with your earlobes nailed to a board behind your head. They released your ears by cutting off the lobe, leading to the term "earmarked". Or so the reenactor told us this summer. Maybe he was BSing us [Smile]

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Ugh!

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CommanderShroom
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Icon 1 posted December 20, 2007 13:59      Profile for CommanderShroom     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by psycosoda:
On this, I have a theory: When some one commits a felony and they are convicted, tattoo in bold letters on to the felon's forehead, "CHILD-MOLESTER", or "MURDERER", et cetera according to their crime/(s) (i would imagine that some might need a list. at that point I'm sure you would move on to tattooing limbs). imagine the new born efficiency of society? yeah, maybe it is inhumane; but with the way society is going, we might as well make the leap.

Suddenly I am thinking of Raven in Snow Crash.

Poor Impulse Control, anyone?

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Does he know our big secret?
Has one of us confessed?
'Bout the wires circuits and motors
Buried in our chest

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GrumpySteen

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Icon 1 posted December 20, 2007 14:43      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Ugh, MightyClub wrote:
That's effectively the way justice worked in the American colonial days. One punishment in Williamsburg was to be put in the stocks with your earlobes nailed to a board behind your head. They released your ears by cutting off the lobe, leading to the term "earmarked". Or so the reenactor told us this summer. Maybe he was BSing us [Smile]

They might have done that, but long before then farmers in Europe cut notches in the ears of livestock to indicate their ownership.

Still... ow.

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Worst. Celibate. Ever.

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Mr. Dave
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Icon 2 posted December 20, 2007 14:43      Profile for Mr. Dave     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by ScholasticSpastic:
I'd very much like to see more monies dedicated to studying the disorder and seeking more effective treatment for it.

I agree wholeheartedly. In fact, just this summer a group of researchers at a university in (I think) Alberta proposed a study wherein a group of "passive offenders" (ie. downloaders) would be shown a series of anonymized photos of young children and their reactions monitored in an effort to gain a better understanding into their mental processes.

You only had to stick your head out the back door to hear the screams of outrage echoing across the land at the idea of using taxpayers' dollars to give paedophiles all the free kiddie-porn they could eat...

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I'm not normally like this, but then I'm not normally normal.

Posts: 193 | From: Leverkusen Institute of Paleocybernetics | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
ScholasticSpastic
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Icon 1 posted December 20, 2007 18:33      Profile for ScholasticSpastic     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Mr. Dave:
quote:
Originally posted by ScholasticSpastic:
I'd very much like to see more monies dedicated to studying the disorder and seeking more effective treatment for it.

I agree wholeheartedly. In fact, just this summer a group of researchers at a university in (I think) Alberta proposed a study wherein a group of "passive offenders" (ie. downloaders) would be shown a series of anonymized photos of young children and their reactions monitored in an effort to gain a better understanding into their mental processes.

You only had to stick your head out the back door to hear the screams of outrage echoing across the land at the idea of using taxpayers' dollars to give paedophiles all the free kiddie-porn they could eat...

We will never get rational policy for as long as we allow the popularity of our decisions to dictate whether we implement an idea. Reactionary troglidytes shouldn't be given so much power.

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"As in repeating a well-known song, so in instincts, one action follows another by a sort of rhythm; if a person be interrupted in a song, or in repeating anything by rote, he is generally forced to go back to recover the habitual train of thought..." (Darwin, The Origin of Species)

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nerdwithnofriends
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Icon 1 posted December 20, 2007 19:00      Profile for nerdwithnofriends     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by ScholasticSpastic:
We will never get rational policy for as long as we allow the popularity of our decisions to dictate whether we implement an idea. Reactionary troglidytes shouldn't be given so much power.

<flame-retardant suit>
Ladies and gentlemen, I present you the problem with democratic forms of government.
</flame-retardant suit>

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"The Buddha, the Godhead, resides quite as comfortably in the circuits of a digital computer or the gears of a cycle transmission as he does at the top of a mountain or in the petals of a flower." - Robert M. Pirsig

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ScholasticSpastic
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Icon 1 posted December 20, 2007 22:52      Profile for ScholasticSpastic     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by nerdwithnofriends:
<flame-retardant suit>
Ladies and gentlemen, I present you the problem with democratic forms of government.
</flame-retardant suit>

The stupidity of our species is the reason any government fails. Socialist-communism and capitalist-democracy would be equally effective as governments if they weren't screwed up by their citizens. Democracy (assuming an educated electorate- not a safe assumption these days) is more effective because it compensates for real people more effectively than the other types of government. I'm all for continuing to look for more effective methods, but I doubt that would happen now that so many wealthy persons have invested in the power structure established by our stable (US) government. (I'm not going to speak to the efficacy of governments other than my own.)

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"As in repeating a well-known song, so in instincts, one action follows another by a sort of rhythm; if a person be interrupted in a song, or in repeating anything by rote, he is generally forced to go back to recover the habitual train of thought..." (Darwin, The Origin of Species)

Posts: 540 | From: Vernal, UT | Registered: Jan 2007  |  IP: Logged


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