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Author Topic: Arrrg, I hate it when The Finder does this!
Snaggy

Sir Snaggalot!
Member # 123

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Icon 8 posted October 03, 2006 17:23      Profile for Snaggy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Don't you just hate it when you're logged into a server somewhere (on Mac OS X), and then you pack up and leave without un-mounting the hard drive's image, and then you're working away somewhere else when the Finder freezes up as it looks for this no-longer-available-drive. Then, after an agonizing amount of time watching the Mighty Beach Ball of Hell you get the stupid message that the drive is no longer available and you should disconnect.

ARRRG!!! Stupid Mac OS X! [Mad] [Mad]

I still love my Mac though. [Razz]

Posts: 8111 | From: Canada | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged
Colonel Panic
BlabberMouth, the Next Generation
Member # 1200

Icon 1 posted October 03, 2006 17:59      Profile for Colonel Panic         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
But the beach ball of death is so colorful and cheerful!

Oh wait, Countdown has a segment on Shakespeare and Meerkat Manner!

Te-he-he-he-he.

Gotta Go!

CP

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Free! Free at last!

Posts: 1809 | From: Glacier Melt, USA | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
uilleann
Discontinued


Icon 1 posted October 03, 2006 18:22            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
For some reason, Tiger does not disconnect AppleShare users before it goes to sleep. So when I put my Tiger iMac to sleep, my OS 9 box locks up..... D'oh!
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dragonman97

SuperFan!
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Icon 1 posted October 03, 2006 18:32      Profile for dragonman97   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Does anyone have a similar problem with Tiger and USB keys on laptops? I have this problem from time to time with the iBook, but it's running Panther, so I don't know if they've fixed it or not.

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There are three things you can be sure of in life: Death, taxes, and reading about fake illnesses online...

Posts: 9332 | From: Westchester County, New York | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
ASM65816
SuperBlabberMouth!
Member # 712

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Icon 5 posted October 03, 2006 18:36      Profile for ASM65816   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Can you "Force Quit Applications" to Quit/Restart the Finder?

Could you "always" leave a "Terminal" window in the Dock so you can "kill -9" the Finder?

[ohwell]   "Still using sneakernet, but upgraded to USB keychain drivers."

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Once a proud programmer of Apple II's, he now spends his days and nights in cheap dives fraternizing with exotic dancers....

Posts: 1035 | From: Third rock from sun. | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged
uilleann
Discontinued


Icon 1 posted October 03, 2006 19:26            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I enabled SSH on mine so that I can connect in from another machine and go on a killing spree if stuff goes wonky. For example, unlike Windows, cmd-tab does not seem to work with full-screen apps. Thankfully in this case (well, later on when it was still acting up), cmd-Q did, but it scared me so much that I went and turned SSH on. I should probably also enable the Windows Telnet server on my PC.
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dragonman97

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Icon 1 posted October 03, 2006 22:54      Profile for dragonman97   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by uilleann:
I enabled SSH on mine so that I can connect in from another machine and go on a killing spree if stuff goes wonky. For example, unlike Windows, cmd-tab does not seem to work with full-screen apps. Thankfully in this case (well, later on when it was still acting up), cmd-Q did, but it scared me so much that I went and turned SSH on. I should probably also enable the Windows Telnet server on my PC.

You remind me of another Mac peeve of mine. Does /anyone/ know how to focus windows that aren't 'owned' by an app with a Dock icon? For instance, if I open an encrypted .dmg file, and get bored of waiting for the password prompt and Cmd-Tab away from it...there's no way to get keyboard focus to it. It's owned by DiskImageHelper, or something of the sort, and this doesn't have a Dock icon.

Little stuff like that bugs me - it's why Windows is still the reigning king for keyboard accessibility. Windows was designed to be used without a mouse, and you can do just about anything with the keyboard, without jumping through hoops. Even if there's no taskbar icon, Alt-Tab will show an icon for the dialog...and a consistent keystroke can kill it (either Alt-F4 or Alt-Space,C).

I'm still not sure how to close certain dialogs in OS X - Cmd-W won't kill them. This is typically the case for preference windows or font selectors. I've learned that Firefox's dialogs have Escape bound to them, but this feels terribly inconsistent (surprise, surprise!). From time to time, I errantly spawn MacIrssi's font selector with Cmd-T (thinking I'm in Firefox), and I don't believe I've found the correct keystroke to kill that.

I may not have a lot of love for many parts of Windows, and M$ for that matter, but keyboard accessibility is definitely something they get right. I'd even have to give Linux so-so scores when it comes to the GUI front, as the keybindings are hideously inconsistent. KDE tends to be a lot better in this regard, whereas Gnome tries pitifully to emulate Mac OS X, and can't even match that level. It's so sad...they should just be their own system, but they have a fetish with /trying/ to emulate the Apple HIG. KDE has become its own system, though it does have a Windows slant - they've put it behind them mostly and just go their own way, pursuing the best UI that suits their needs. Xlib apps tend to be a nightmare when it coems to keyboard usage, but a lot of such apps are just frontends for good CLI tools. [Smile]

When I /really/ want solid keyboard access, I just use bash. [Big Grin] Give me a modern distro, with programmable bash completion, and I'm quite happy. The only other shell that can compete for tab-completion is IOS. [Wink]

P.S. Why isn't there a keyboard accelerator for Find in iTunes? I'm so used to Ctrl-K in Firefox and Thunderbird to get to the search box in the upper-right corner, and instead, I have to hit Tab a few times until I hit it. There isn't even a menu item for it, so I can't bind it in Sys. Prefs. *sigh*

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There are three things you can be sure of in life: Death, taxes, and reading about fake illnesses online...

Posts: 9332 | From: Westchester County, New York | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
uilleann
Discontinued


Icon 1 posted October 04, 2006 00:17            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I just realised that earlier ... if I start opening various Properties dialogs in Explorer, I can alt-tab to each one to get them above the Explorer window. Damn nifty. When Apple introduced proper cmd-tab to Mac OS X (pretty much stealing the design from LightSwitch since Apple got it wrong time after time) they introduced something a bit at odds with the now interleaved GUI of the Mac. Witch is really nice, but it's quite hard for me to learn to use opt-tab as Apple refuse to let anyone take over cmd-tab. I have a four-button mouse so I tend to just use button 3 for Desktop and 4 for All Windows. Exposť does cope with windows that don't belong to Dock programs, but what Apple is doing allowing them is absurd: unlike Windows, on the Mac there is only one menu and you create a dissociation between the menu and the window and lose the ability to use the Edit menu or even, I think, Edit menu keyboard shortcuts since they're driven from the menu bar on the Mac, not the control handler itself like in Windows.

If you look in the Keyboard and Mouse control panel under the Keyboard Shortcuts tab, you'll see all the shortcuts for things like focusing palette windows; whether there are shortcuts for exactly what you want, I don't know. I tend to just use the mouse in X. I may learn the shortcuts properly one day.

As for prefs dialogs -- it's cmd-W in X since they're officially modeless. Firefox must be using a modal dialog still for which escape is correct (I don't have Firefox on the iMac). The use of modal vs modeless prefs is not consistent as you can imagine (iTunes still uses a modal dialog last I saw), but escape for cancel has been standard on the Mac for a very long time so it doesn't bother me. What I despise is modeless prefs dialogs with no revert or cancel so any mistake you make takes instant effect and is completely irreversible. Madness. If Firefox still uses an OK/Cancel modal dialog then I can only cheer for their disobedience of Apple's absurd interface concept. Granted, a modeless window in itself is not so bad -- I understand where Apple are coming from in terms of modal windows being annoying, but a Cancel button is good. Humans are fallible, please don't try to rub our noses in it ...

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maximile

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Icon 1 posted October 04, 2006 08:20      Profile for maximile   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
The thing that really annoys me is Safari. I've had dman's problem after downloading a .dmg before, and it's as annoying as he says. I've also had Snaggy's problem disconnecting from servers.

But Safari... it has the sort of problems that slow you down just enough to annoy you, but not enough to make you look reasonable if you complain about them. My main problem with it is drag and drop feedback and consistency. Try dragging a text link or image link up to the address bar - no highlighting or cursor change to show that it's acceptable, yet it goes to the address. Try dragging some highlighted text to the search bar... same response, but this time it takes no action.

Now highlight a URL... drag it to the address bar, and it does nothing. Drag it onto the Safari icon in the dock or the Finder, and it... searches for it in Google? What's that all about?

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CommanderShroom
BlabberMouth, a Blabber Odyssey
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Icon 1 posted October 04, 2006 09:19      Profile for CommanderShroom     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Now I can really get into this...

Why in the world does alt+tab not show multiple windows of the same program? I had 2 terminal windows up yesterday and could only get to one.

And in the server set up for DNS. I flubbed a file. So DNS errored. Now of course any sensible system would error, kill the service, and allow you to make the proper changes, right? Nope. So into bash I sent. Kill Bind, Edit the files. And then I could restart the server management GUI.

And a quick question for the long-time Mac users. What on a Mac keyboard equates to "Insert"? It makes it tough to use vi.

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Does he know our big secret?
Has one of us confessed?
'Bout the wires circuits and motors
Buried in our chest

Posts: 2465 | From: Utarrrrggggghhh!!!!!!!! | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
uilleann
Discontinued


Icon 1 posted October 04, 2006 11:12            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
CommanderShroom: The Macintosh user interface is and has always been MDI (just without the physical containing window as seen in Windows). Apple realised finally that MDI sucks monkey balls so they decided to switch to an SDI model -- windows of different apps in Mac OS X may be interleaved. But unlike Windows, it is still impossible to open two copies of the same application. So SDI in Mac OS X is more virtual, rather like many Windows programs -- many independent windows owned by a single process.

So, what kind of window management do we need for this? The Dock still follows Mac OS 9 convention: one icon per process. Cmd-tab follows Mac OS 9 convention of switching processes. Exposť was created to finally offer the ability to switch windows, but not via the keyboard.

It's a rather confused system. You have at least two options. First, install Witch and learn to use opt-tab or some other shortcut instead of cmd-tab; now you can switch individual windows. Second, you can cycle windows of an application using cmd-` -- so, cmd-tab to the application you want, then cmd-` to the window you want.

This all works unless you try to minimise a window. Which causes it to vanish from Exposť and most likely cmd-` also. Or hide a program, where it also vanishes from Exposť. Windows alt-tab is more consistent in that minimised programs are still reachable from the keyboard. However, programs that minimise to the tray cannot be as easily retrieved and that means the long way around -- ctrl-esc, esc, tab all the way to the tray, left/right arrow to reach the icon (up/down do not work), then enter to open it. Some programs which lose their tray icon when Explorer crashes are lost and gone forever... Not even Process Explorer will find a window to bring back...

As for an insert key, no, we never had one of those. Apple gave us a help key instead. Whether any other key is or can be bound as insert, I have no idea. Does the help key still offer help? Why the fuck is Help in all apps bound to cmd-? (i.e. cmd-shift-/) if we have a help key...?

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