homeGeek CultureWebstoreeCards!Forums!Joy of Tech!AY2K!webcam

The Geek Culture Forums


Post New Topic  New Poll  Post A Reply
my profile | directory login | | search | faq | forum home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» The Geek Culture Forums   » News, Reviews, Views!   » Rants, Raves, Rumors!   » Engineers have the word Engineer in their degree... (Page 1)

 - UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!  
This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2 
 
Author Topic: Engineers have the word Engineer in their degree...
crazyarlo
Geek
Member # 1226

Member Rated:
5
Icon 8 posted August 28, 2006 16:58      Profile for crazyarlo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
So, I am cruising Google for jobs, and I notice they need Engineers. Sweet, I thought to myself, I'm an Engineer. Nope. What they are looking for are COMPUTER SCIENCE MAJORS!! What the hell?!!?!?! Are Software Designers, IT folk, and Programmers calling themselves ENGINEERS????? After all the hard work we put in to get an Engineering degree, I find it REALLY IRRITATING that anybody can just CALL themselves an Engineer!

Where I work, they call our Chemists .. Engineers, and call us (the real Engineers) ASSOCIATES!!

What's wrong with being called what you are? Are you a Sys Admin? Programmer? Systems Designer? JUST CALL YOURSELVES THAT! BE PROUD!!!!

Otherwise, go petition the colleges to merge their Computer Science departments with the Engineering departments. And good luck with that. It ain't happening.

Posts: 238 | From: Southern Ohio ... SURF OHIO, BABY! | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
Stereo

Solid Nitrozanium SuperFan!
Member # 748

Member Rated:
5
Icon 1 posted August 28, 2006 17:19      Profile for Stereo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Yes, and that's why Quebec has restricted the word "Engineer" to those who 1) have an engineering degree, and 2) are member of the "Ordre des ingénieurs du Québec" (Quebec's engineering association). This way, only those who are truly qualified can use the name, with all the responsibilities that goes with it. (Condition 2 is needed so an incompetent engineer can be barred from practicing.) A much better system, if you ask me.

--------------------
Eppur, si muove!

Galileo Galilei

Posts: 2289 | From: Gatineau, Quebec, Canada | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Tech Angel
Alpha Geek
Member # 908

Member Rated:
5
Icon 1 posted August 28, 2006 18:25      Profile for Tech Angel     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by crazyarlo:
What's wrong with being called what you are? Are you a Sys Admin? Programmer? Systems Designer? JUST CALL YOURSELVES THAT! BE PROUD!!!!

Are you a planet? Dwarf planet? Kuiper Belt Object? Just call yourself that and be proud! [crazy] [Wink]

More seriously, the title "engineer" does get overused, probably because it does convey a certain level of competence in people's minds. As an engineer myself <Tech Angel gives crazyarlo the secret handshake>, I've noticed that the term does command a certain amount of respect in some circles. In most states, you can't use the term "engineer" or "engineering" when offering your services to others as a contractor or consultant unless you hold the appropriate license in that state. It's done for the same reasons Stereo mentioned, and works the same as licenses for architects, land surveyors, etc.

--------------------
We must be the change we want to see in the world. -Mahatma Ghandi

Posts: 330 | From: the Great State of Confusion | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
The Famous Druid

Gold Hearted SuperFan!
Member # 1769

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted August 28, 2006 20:25      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Quite agree.
I've never understood why people with Computer Science degrees call themselves "Software Engineers", it's kind of like buying a Porsche, and calling it a Volkswagen. [evil]

--------------------
If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

Posts: 10669 | From: Melbourne, Australia | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
Sirius
Maximum Newbie
Member # 5184

Member Rated:
5
Icon 1 posted September 06, 2006 07:37      Profile for Sirius     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by The Famous Druid:
Quite agree.
I've never understood why people with Computer Science degrees call themselves "Software Engineers", it's kind of like buying a Porsche, and calling it a Volkswagen. [evil]

I WAS going to flame you then read your post again and realised I agree [Big Grin]
Posts: 16 | From: Perth | Registered: May 2006  |  IP: Logged
quantumfluff
BlabberMouth, a Blabber Odyssey
Member # 450

Member Rated:
5
Icon 1 posted September 06, 2006 08:46      Profile for quantumfluff     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
The ACM brings up the question of "software engineering" all the time. It's clear that to call someone a Software Engineer is technically wrong, and perhaps illegal, yet many of the largest companies in the US do it routinely. My company does as well, even though I know it is wrong.

One of the problems is that there is no accepted body of knowledge and certification that makes a "Software Engineer". If that existed, it would be clearer how to distinguish people. There are very vocal people on both sides of the debate. I think a good many CS people would like to have the equivalent of licensing, while many employers don't (labor costs might rise). Personally, I'm for professional standards, but I've never seen an employer or client ask about them. I got a cert in Systems Programming from the ICCP when I was back in college, but in 25 years, no one has cared.

Another side of the problem is that "Programmer" got a bad rep in the 70's and early 80's. The world got divided into Analysts and Programmers. The Analysts were viewed as the skilled ones and the Programmers as drones. No one with a CS degree wanted to be called a programmer - a programmer was someone who (in their minde) came out of a 2-year technical training course. That's about when we started calling ourselves engineers. (Note. I think I once read that Ken Thompson always lists "Computer Programmer" as his occupation).

Until the last of my generation retires, or we get professional licensing, programmer will be underutilized. In my resume I call myself a "Software Developer", but my job title is "Engineering Manager". I guess that's OK because you don't actually have to be an Engineer to manage them. Except none of my staff are real engineers, they're all CS majors.

What I find is that while many software people try not to call themselves engineers, it's an uphill battle because the employers keep calling them engineers. Until we can get them to stop, we'll keep treading on the real engineers turf.

Posts: 2901 | From: 5 to 15 meters above sea level | Registered: Jun 2000  |  IP: Logged
Cap'n Vic

Member # 1477

Icon 1 posted September 06, 2006 09:00      Profile for Cap'n Vic     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Pffft.

Well, let me tell you mister. My pappy-in-law drove train at CN Rail for 37 years.....he was an Engineer, and he doesn't appreciate all you young whipper snappers with book smarts calling themselves Engineers.

Oh, and the latest trend is to call ones self an Architect, as in a Network Architect or a Software Architect.

Posts: 5471 | From: One of the drones from sector 7G | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
GMx

Solid Nitrozanium SuperFan!
Member # 1523

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted September 06, 2006 09:41      Profile for GMx     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Oh, and a "fireman" stokes the fire in the boiler room of a ship or the boiler of a steam engine. A "firefighter" puts out fires. (Something my Dad crammed into my head over and over and over)
Posts: 5844 | From: S-4, Area 51 | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
quantumfluff
BlabberMouth, a Blabber Odyssey
Member # 450

Member Rated:
5
Icon 1 posted September 06, 2006 10:45      Profile for quantumfluff     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
... and a "woodsman" is someone who ....
Posts: 2901 | From: 5 to 15 meters above sea level | Registered: Jun 2000  |  IP: Logged
N9IWP
Geek
Member # 1229

Member Rated:
5
Icon 1 posted September 06, 2006 12:53      Profile for N9IWP     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I've had many titles in my previous job, even the job was basically the same (programming). Right now my title is Software Engineer. (FWIW I do have a BSEE)
My alma mater (UW-Platteville) awarded the first BSSE degrees. looks like BSSE is different than BSCS http://www.uwplatt.edu/csse/index.html

Brian

Posts: 181 | From: Southeast MN | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
The Famous Druid

Gold Hearted SuperFan!
Member # 1769

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted September 06, 2006 13:35      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
My sis-in-law has a PhD in one of the biological fields, and once worked in a research institution where half of the researchers were PhDs, and the other half were doctors (i.e. people with a Bachelor of Medicine degree). Of course, the PhDs considered themselves to be the real 'Doctors', and referred to those with mere bachelors degrees as 'clinicians'.

--------------------
If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

Posts: 10669 | From: Melbourne, Australia | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
Xanthine

Solid Nitrozanium SuperFan!
Member # 736

Member Rated:
5
Icon 1 posted September 06, 2006 14:56      Profile for Xanthine     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Huh.

I have yet to meet a PhD who used their title outside of grant applications and CVs. Around here us grad students are expected to refer to faculty by first names, or, if we can't handle that, first and last name. Undergrads still have to use the title "Professor" though (unless they work in the professor's lab, in which case they get the same priviledges grads do).

My official title is Research Assistant. My unofficial titles are Lab Rat, Bench Monkey, Tray Monkey, or just plain old Lab Monkey. I suppose that now that there are more students in here junior to me than senior to me I call call myself a Senior Lab Monkey.

--------------------
And it's one, two, three / On the wrong side of the lee / What were you meant for? / What were you meant for?
- The Decemberists

Posts: 7670 | From: the lab | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged
garlicguy

Member # 3166

Member Rated:
5
Icon 1 posted September 06, 2006 15:04      Profile for garlicguy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I think I'm falling in love with academia all over again - not!

A high school classmate of mine, (who incidentally was so inept as to be incapable of communicating in the language taught as English by the US school system in those days), went on to major in - you guessed it - English. She also obtained a Teaching Certificate.

As things turned out, she returned to the home town and was hired as an English Teacher in that same high school. Since the pay scale for teachers in this country is largely tied to how many initials they collect after their names, she went on to purcha^h^h^h earn a Masters Degree and then a PhD in Education. Today, she is the proud Prinicpal of that school and insists upon be called "Doctor". My big white Irish A$$! No wonder Johnny can't read!

--------------------
I don't know what I was thinking... it seemed like a good idea at the time.

Posts: 3752 | From: Pluto, no matter what you call it, is still my home. | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
The Famous Druid

Gold Hearted SuperFan!
Member # 1769

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted September 06, 2006 16:00      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by garlicguy:
A high school classmate of mine, (who incidentally was so inept as to be incapable of communicating in the language taught as English by the US school system in those days)

Don't be too hard on her, I've often wondered how anyone manages to communicate in that barbarous dialect. [evil]

--------------------
If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

Posts: 10669 | From: Melbourne, Australia | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
drunkennewfiemidget
BlabberMouth, a Blabber Odyssey
Member # 2814

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted September 06, 2006 17:49      Profile for drunkennewfiemidget     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
That's why I prefer to be called a 'geek'.

No seriously. That's what I ask my official job title to be.

Posts: 4897 | From: Cambridge, ON, Canada | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
Xanthine

Solid Nitrozanium SuperFan!
Member # 736

Member Rated:
5
Icon 1 posted September 06, 2006 18:01      Profile for Xanthine     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
GG, any PhD who insists on being called Dr. is a dork.

--------------------
And it's one, two, three / On the wrong side of the lee / What were you meant for? / What were you meant for?
- The Decemberists

Posts: 7670 | From: the lab | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged
The Famous Druid

Gold Hearted SuperFan!
Member # 1769

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted September 06, 2006 18:18      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Xanthine:
GG, any PhD who insists on being called Dr. is a dork.

Or a fraud.

A mate of mine had a workmate who insisted on being called "Doctor" - this in an organization where just about everyone had a PhD. It turned out his entire CV (including his impressive academic record) was a work of fiction.

--------------------
If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

Posts: 10669 | From: Melbourne, Australia | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
quantumfluff
BlabberMouth, a Blabber Odyssey
Member # 450

Member Rated:
5
Icon 1 posted September 06, 2006 19:42      Profile for quantumfluff     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I like to be addressed by my Sith title.
Posts: 2901 | From: 5 to 15 meters above sea level | Registered: Jun 2000  |  IP: Logged
littlefish
BlabberMouth, a Blabber Odyssey
Member # 966

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted September 07, 2006 01:26      Profile for littlefish   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I went to a job interview at a hospital (research into disease diagnosis through Raman spectroscopy on the tear film). They had a cute organisation chart, and the formal titles were amusing.

Medical Doctors don't have a doctoral degree, and are called Dr anyway. More advanced medical practitioners with a doctoral degree call themselves Mr (or Mrs) to distinguish themselves, and can apparently get a bit sniffy.

The way they solved the deal was the most junior people (the medical doctors) had a title, whilst the researchers in the middle (where I would have been - with PhDs, but not medical ones) where called by the first name. The most senior got called Mr.
In other words:
Dr A, Bob B, Mr C.

This was only on the formal charts as far as I know. Everyone I met went by their first name.

Posts: 2421 | From: That London | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
Ashitaka

SuperFan!
Member # 4924

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted September 07, 2006 02:10      Profile for Ashitaka     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
My two cents.

Where I work now(until next wednessday), 75% of the people on my floor there have a PhD in chemistry. No one is referred to as doctor, or Herrn Doktor, as thier official status would call for.

--------------------
"If they're not gonna make a distinction between Muslims and violent extremists, then why should I take the time to distinguish between decent, fearful white people and racists?"

-Assif Mandvi

Posts: 3089 | From: Switzerland | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged
Serenak

Member # 2950

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted September 07, 2006 03:29      Profile for Serenak     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Here in the UK medical doctors are refered to as "Dr Somebody" but those with higher medical qualifications, surgeons, consultants etc. refer to themselves as Mr... [Applause]

--------------------
"So if you want my address - it's No. 1 at the end of the bar, where I sit with the broken angels, clutching at straws and nursing my scars..."

Posts: 1936 | From: Suffolk England | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged
garlicguy

Member # 3166

Member Rated:
5
Icon 1 posted September 07, 2006 06:23      Profile for garlicguy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Xanthine:
GG, any PhD who insists on being called Dr. is a dork.

[blush] It appears I need a bit of help with my own English usage here. Is dork gender specific?
I've always thought dorks were males, but then a female with the same characteristics would be what, a dorkette? Anyhow, I totally agree with your notion, Xanth.

quote:
Originally poosted by littlefish:
...and can apparently get a bit sniffy.

Sniffy?? Sniffy!! OMG, I love that! I'm immediately importing it to this side of the pond. What will you EastSiders come up with next? [Big Grin]

--------------------
I don't know what I was thinking... it seemed like a good idea at the time.

Posts: 3752 | From: Pluto, no matter what you call it, is still my home. | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
Xanthine

Solid Nitrozanium SuperFan!
Member # 736

Member Rated:
5
Icon 1 posted September 07, 2006 07:24      Profile for Xanthine     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by garlicguy:
quote:
Originally posted by Xanthine:
GG, any PhD who insists on being called Dr. is a dork.

[blush] It appears I need a bit of help with my own English usage here. Is dork gender specific?
I've always thought dorks were males, but then a female with the same characteristics would be what, a dorkette? Anyhow, I totally agree with your notion, Xanth.

I'm not sure. I've never seen the gender distinction used.

So what would a female dweeb be?

--------------------
And it's one, two, three / On the wrong side of the lee / What were you meant for? / What were you meant for?
- The Decemberists

Posts: 7670 | From: the lab | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged
Bridget
Newbie Larva
Member # 5683

Rate Member
Icon 1 posted September 07, 2006 11:50      Profile for Bridget     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I don't think that the word 'dork' is gender specific. If it is, that's news to me. I use it for everyone. [Smile] Oh, and uhhh, Hiii...I'm new!


p.s. Dweebette, maybe. -ponders- I think I have actually heard that word before. Hmmm.

--------------------
i. want. to. be. heard.
hablo espanol.
falo portugues.
parlo italiano.
je parle francais.
do you?

Posts: 6 | From: Florida | Registered: Sep 2006  |  IP: Logged
uilleann
Discontinued


Icon 1 posted September 07, 2006 12:18            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
According to the Free On-line Dictionary of Computing (referenced by Dictionary.com), "Nearly all dweebs are male".
IP: Logged


All times are Eastern Time
This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2 
 
Post New Topic  New Poll  Post A Reply Close Topic    Move Topic    Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:

Contact Us | Geek Culture Home Page

© 2015 Geek Culture

Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classicTM 6.4.0



homeGeek CultureWebstoreeCards!Forums!Joy of Tech!AY2K!webcam