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Author Topic: Disasterous Security Breech 26-million veterans personal records stolen!
Colonel Panic
BlabberMouth, the Next Generation
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Icon 1 posted May 22, 2006 19:01      Profile for Colonel Panic         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2006-05-22-vadisk_x.htm

We're supposed to trust this adminstration with the records of our personal phone calls?

They can't even protect the social security records of millions of veterans.

How very sad, but with this group, so entirely expected.

CP

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GrumpySteen

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Icon 1 posted May 22, 2006 19:34      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Umm... no offense and I'm certainly not defending the current administration, but I don't think you can blame them for some dumbass file clerk who took files home the night his house was burglarized.

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Posts: 6364 | From: Tennessee | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged
Colonel Panic
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Icon 1 posted May 22, 2006 20:40      Profile for Colonel Panic         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Steen,

I'm alarmed that some "dumbass" clerk has the capability -- if not the permission -- to take home the names, addresses and social security numbers of 26.5-million people. This data is not locked up?

What about my taxpayer records? What about my phone records the NSA is "data mining?"

To dismiss this as the act of a "dumbass clerk" is to exculpate layers upon layers of irresponsible management, all the way up to the top. The buck stops at "W"s desk.

With the identities of 26.5-million people (that's 10% of our national population), Osama can fund hundreds of 9/11s. Are you suggesting it's ok for terrorists to get their hands on this data?

This is Katrina Cubed.

I'm constantly amazed at the gullibility of Bush apologists of all stripes. I'm seeing all the earmarks of a Katrina-like Fox News spin in your comment.

You've politicized gross incompetence.

CP

Fox News: Because Republicans Can't Handle The Truth.

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Jace Raven

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Icon 1 posted May 22, 2006 21:06      Profile for Jace Raven         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I heard about this 5 months ago.

A DoD Admin came out that stated:
The info stolen was infact the database that, as the story states, dates back to 1976 that keeps records of all the SSN's names other Rel. Info and Duty Status (Honorable Discharge, Active, etc.) It was kept in a locked brief case authorizd to carry classified data, as was the carrier and the data was "lost" in a very diliberate manner (stolen and they knew what they were looking for.)

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TheMoMan
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Icon 1 posted May 23, 2006 03:53      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Here we go again, There is becoming a great devide between the have and have nots of this society, so great as to render the last fifty years of social progress neutral. The will be no justice until all people can eat at the same table. I'm sorry that so many people do not see that we are heading down the road that lead to this countries revolution in the first place.


The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread.

Anatole France

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Callipygous
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Icon 1 posted May 23, 2006 03:56      Profile for Callipygous     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I hate GWB and everything he stands for with just about every fibre in my being. Nevertheless I really don't think this is something I would be to anxious to lay at his door, unless his administration was previously aware of these vulnerabilities and did nothing about it. Administrative cock ups like this occur everywhere, and under governments of all flavours, and even in businesses.

I'd rather take the more straightforward route and despise him for what he has done deliberately, in making the world a much more dangerous place, and his country loathed by thinking and civilised people everywhere. [Smile]

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Colonel Panic
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Icon 1 posted May 23, 2006 06:27      Profile for Colonel Panic         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Calli,

Au Contraire Mon Frère,

The guy running the VA has a very similar background as the fellow who screwed up running FEMA during Katrina. In short, he is a Bush crony with little experience running a large government organization. He received his appointment because of his ability to raise money.

Prior to his appointment he was a big-time fundraiser for the Republican National Committee and eventualy the chair of the RNC. Prior to that he had a cush appointment as ambassador to the Vatican.

Once again, Bush has put cronyism ahead of national interests and a large chunk of the American public is sufffering.

Far from what you have heard, Nicholson represents the acme of the way Bush is mismanaging the nation.

As I mentioned earlier, this is not so much about politics as it is about politicizing incompetence.

CP

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ASM65816
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Icon 2 posted May 23, 2006 10:28      Profile for ASM65816   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
May 22, 2006 19:01
They can't even protect the social security records of millions of veterans.

#include sarcasm.h
Ooooo ... nothing like this has ever happened before. Especially not from non-government organizations.
quote:
40 Million Credit Card Numbers Hacked
Data Breached at Processing Center
Washington Post, Saturday, June 18, 2005

More than 40 million credit card numbers belonging to U.S. consumers were accessed by a computer hacker and are at risk of being used for fraud, MasterCard International Inc. said yesterday.

#include sarcasm.h
Hey, I know, let's blame Bush for the credit card thing too!!!

quote:
May 22, 2006 20:40
What about my phone records the NSA is "data mining?"

#include sarcasm.h
Oh my god, criminals could learn you order pizza every Friday night and had to buy tampons on your way back from work! (Wait ... don't the non-government marketing agencies already know you buy pizza and tampons?)

quote:
May 22, 2006 20:40
Are you suggesting it's ok for terrorists to get their hands on this data?

Hmmm, smells like someone's trolling..... [shake head]

    If you're really, really, really scared, go live in a cave without electricity.

quote:
May 23, 2006 03:56
I'd rather take the more straightforward route and despise him for what he has done deliberately....

But if you do that, you'll never be able to blame Bush for "the act of a dumbass clerk." [Eek!]

Maybe it's me, but for some reason, I was under the impression that people have been "stealing things" for several thousand years.   [Geek]

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GrumpySteen

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Icon 1 posted May 23, 2006 13:20      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Colonel Panic wrote:
I'm alarmed that some "dumbass" clerk has the capability -- if not the permission -- to take home the names, addresses and social security numbers of 26.5-million people. This data is not locked up?

No, it's not really locked up and inaccessible in any meaningful way. It never has been. Visit any social security office in the country and you'll see this for yourself. It's not just veterans who are at this sort of risk either. The entire concept of using a single number with little to no further identification to control access to everything in your life makes identity theft very easy and very lucrative.

To dismiss this as the act of a "dumbass clerk" is to exculpate layers upon layers of irresponsible management, all the way up to the top. The buck stops at "W"s desk.

It goes back much longer than Bush has been in office. The way our government tracks and keeps private information is a ridiculous sham without any real security.

With the identities of 26.5-million people (that's 10% of our national population), Osama can fund hundreds of 9/11s. Are you suggesting it's ok for terrorists to get their hands on this data?

Nope, just pointing out that they could get their hands on that information before Bush went into office. There are serious reforms to privacy and security needed.

I'm constantly amazed at the gullibility of Bush apologists of all stripes. I'm seeing all the earmarks of a Katrina-like Fox News spin in your comment.

Spin my ass. If I had a better idea for how to govern this damned country I'd be the first one to start a revolution.

You've politicized gross incompetence.

Actually, I blamed it on the incompetence of a single dumbass (which Jace's comment cleary shows I was wrong in doing, but not for the reasons you described). You are the one politicizing the whole thing.

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Sxeptomaniac

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Icon 1 posted May 23, 2006 15:27      Profile for Sxeptomaniac   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Steen:
You've politicized gross incompetence.

Actually, I blamed it on the incompetence of a single dumbass (which Jace's comment cleary shows I was wrong in doing, but not for the reasons you described). You are the one politicizing the whole thing.

This is exactly why I sometimes worry for CP. The way he posts, he seems to see "righty" boogeymen around every corner.

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dragonman97

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Icon 1 posted May 23, 2006 15:49      Profile for dragonman97   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Sorry, but shit happens. I won't buy this idea of passing the blame on in ridiculous ways - someone made a mistake, and unfortunately, it was a very big mistake. Trying to run administrative functions (read: secretarial, not computing or policy) under gun, lock, and key just doesn't work in the real world.

CP: Kindly visit your doc again for some meds, and come back when you've chilled out a bit.

Anyone cares to flame me, go ahead....but I'm tired of grossly irrational discussion around here.

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GrumpySteen

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Icon 1 posted May 23, 2006 16:15      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
dragonman97 wrote:
Anyone cares to flame me, go ahead....but I'm tired of grossly irrational discussion around here.

Blue fish! Gibblety gobble-wompers!

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Callipygous
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Icon 1 posted May 23, 2006 16:30      Profile for Callipygous     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by dragonman97:
CP: Kindly visit your doc again for some meds, and come back when you've chilled out a bit.

I've just spent 5 seconds trying to imagine a chilled out mellow marshmallow Colonel. It wasn't a pleasant experience. Although I may disagree with him about this, it's not as though there is a shortage of subjects worthy of righteous anger.

Long may his fury burn! [devil wand]

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Sxeptomaniac

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Icon 1 posted May 23, 2006 16:46      Profile for Sxeptomaniac   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Callipygous:
quote:
Originally posted by dragonman97:
CP: Kindly visit your doc again for some meds, and come back when you've chilled out a bit.

I've just spent 5 seconds trying to imagine a chilled out mellow marshmallow Colonel. It wasn't a pleasant experience. Although I may disagree with him about this, it's not as though there is a shortage of subjects worthy of righteous anger.

Long may his fury burn! [devil wand]

Righteous anger is fine. It's when everything wrong in the nation is attributed to one group of people, even in cases where there are no logical reasons to blame them, that I worry about a person.

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TheMoMan
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Icon 1 posted May 23, 2006 17:39      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Sxeptomaniac______________________I too think that CP is slightly above board but I prefer him to be. I have stated that while in the Canoe club I was in an ECM (Electronic Counter Measures) Squadron. We would not even give the base post office a list of our Members, nor the chaplins office or any other entity on the base, we ran our own medical, dental, and disbursing depts. That is how you keep secrets, you do not let some dumb ass file cleck take them home, when we moved secrets there would be four or more curriers each with part of the coded message, the brief case was locked to your arm and you did not carry either key. (handcuffs or case)


From what Jace has said and the currant news there may have been two breaches in this file system, as from one of the networks said dumbass did not have permission to have said files or clearance to take them home, Who is running the Zoo the monkeys or the keepers, cause it sure looks like the Monkeys.

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Benjamin Franklin,

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Colonel Panic
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Icon 1 posted May 24, 2006 19:35      Profile for Colonel Panic         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
GAO tells us the problem is a pandemic within the Bush administration.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2006-05-24-agencies-data_x.htm

Here’s a quote from the article.

“Evaluations of the government's computer security practices in 2005 resulted in an overall grade of D+ by the government. Five agencies — including Justice, Treasury and the Nuclear Regulatory Commission — did worse in 2005 than in 2004, according to the committee.."

Yeah, the Nuclear Regulatory Commission is less secure right now, in this post-9/11 world, than it was last year. THAT gives me a nice, warm, green-glowing feeling all over.

We have leading our nation adherents of a political ideology that believes “government is the problem” and promised to shrink it. Instead, they have grown it. And repeatedly they have demonstrated they cannot run it very well. A lot of people are suffering because of this.

Right now it’s veterans turn to suffer the incompetence.

According to the polls in this nation over two-thirds of voters recognize that the righties have failed and they cannot be trusted to run our nation. What worries me is the less-than-two-thirds of Americans who don’t see the problem. It’s their thick-headed clinging to failed policies and people that should scare the shit out of all of us.

CP

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ASM65816
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Icon 4 posted May 25, 2006 01:46      Profile for ASM65816   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
May 22, 2006, 20:40
The buck stops at "W"s desk.

#include sarcasm.h
Wow, this is INCREDIBLE!!! We BOTH AGREE that the highest ranking person is to blame for everything!

For years, I've said that Kofi Annan should be held Criminally Liable for Corruption in the UN, as well as for aiding and abetting Genocide.

... and long ago, Saddam Hussein should have been "chopped up in itty-bitty pieces and buried alive" for the atrocities of his regime. Note: But ... maybe you didn't think killing 80,000 Kurds was "bad."

  [Roll Eyes]   Ooops. I forgot. This "belief" of yours only applies when you can blame "Bush."

quote:
May 22, 2006, 20:40
To dismiss this as the act of a "dumbass clerk" is to exculpate layers upon layers of irresponsible management, all the way up to the top.

[Confused]   Let's use an "Army" analogy (since you know military): When some "Private" abandons his post during Guard Duty, is it the Colonel of the Battalion that gets thrown in the Brig?

Another military analogy: Who pulls Guard Duty (security) "in the field"? All the Generals? Or the "grunts"? If the "lowest levels" of service have no sense of Duty, the "greatest" and "wisest" leadership will be useless. Yet, you feel compelled to state that the (criminal) act (theft) by a (low level) "dumbass clerk" is an indictment of the "highest level of authority."

When China stole Nuclear "secrets" from Los Alamos under the Clinton administration, did you rant about Clinton's "incompetence"? (My guess is "No." )

quote:
May 24, 2006, 19:35
... the righties ....

[shake head]   You sound like a pathetic "B" movie.

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Once a proud programmer of Apple II's, he now spends his days and nights in cheap dives fraternizing with exotic dancers....

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Callipygous
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Icon 1 posted May 25, 2006 07:29      Profile for Callipygous     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I have no idea whether GWB is more or less guilty of cronyism than his predecessors, but since his undoubted personal charm is a big part of how he gets things done, I would not be surprised if it was true. More seriously though, a feature of his administration's appointments that has received much more widespread criticism is that it seems more important that the appointee share the administration's political and religious faith than have competence for the job. In that respect the Colonel's criticisms are quite justified.

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GMx

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Icon 1 posted May 25, 2006 08:39      Profile for GMx     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by ASM65816:
[shake head]   You sound like a pathetic "B" movie.

You sound like a character from a Phillip K. Dick novel.
[Razz]

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Colonel Panic
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Icon 11 posted May 25, 2006 11:13      Profile for Colonel Panic         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
This is exactly why I sometimes worry for CP. The way he posts, he seems to see "righty" boogeymen around every corner.
Can I really find a "'righty' boogeyman'" (sic) around every corner?

Hmmmmm. Do I have a spare sixty seconds?

Let's just see who is around the corner I when I Google Jim Nicholson ...

DING-DING-DING-DING! We have a winner!

Look! Ken Lay! A 10-times convicted felon, who's facing up to 100 years in the slammer! America's bogeyman of the day!

I love this quote, it's a keeper from Jim Nicholson back in April 26, 2000.

``We have a nominee now and everybody's excited about him and putting a Republican back in the White House and restoring dignity and integrity and trust in the White House,'' party chairman Jim Nicholson said.

The GOP gala includes several of the fund-raisers who helped the Texas governor amass a record $80 million for his presidential campaign.

For instance, the chairman, Sam Fox, heads a Missouri investment company and raised at least $100,000 for Bush's campaign.

And one co-chairman, who raised or contributed at least $250,000, is Kenneth Lay, head of the Texas-based energy giant Enron Corp. Enron has been the biggest financial contributor of Bush's political career, giving more than $500,000, according to the watchdog Center for Public Integrity. Lay also has raised more than $100,000 for Bush's presidential campaign.


LINK: http://www.evote.com/index.asp?Page=/news_section/2000-04/04262000Gun.asp

I love that part about restoring dignity, honesty and trust. God, you righties are too funny. I bet there are at least 26.5-million veterans who don't trust Jim Nicholson too much anymore!

It's the Bush administration -- and there really is a bogeyman around every corner!

Keep throwing those Chicago League softballs, Sxepto!

CP

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Sxeptomaniac

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Icon 1 posted May 25, 2006 13:29      Profile for Sxeptomaniac   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
You mean that the Republican administration put a Republican in charge of the VA?!? *gasp* What a shocker! [Roll Eyes]

You have yet to actually respond to Steen's comments in a reasonable way. You throw around comments about how incompetent the Bush administration is (no, I'm not going to argue with you about whether those comments are true or false), but that does not demonstrate that they are responsible for this incident.

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Let's pray that the human race never escapes from Earth to spread its iniquity elsewhere. - C. S. Lewis

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Serenak

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Icon 1 posted May 25, 2006 13:50      Profile for Serenak     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Always remember the great UK (and probably elsewhere too..) saying -

"If it comes down to a choice between conspiracy and cock up, you can be 99% sure that cock up is the real explanation!"

IMHO, INAL, YMMV, etc...

[Big Grin]

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Colonel Panic
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Icon 1 posted May 25, 2006 15:45      Profile for Colonel Panic         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Sxeptomaniac:
You mean that the Republican administration put a Republican in charge of the VA?!? *gasp* What a shocker! [Roll Eyes]

You have yet to actually respond to Steen's comments in a reasonable way.

You're not going to define reasonable for me; you're not qualified (I've seen your blog). More in the later part of the post.

quote:
You throw around comments about how incompetent the Bush administration is (no, I'm not going to argue with you about whether those comments are true or false),
You won't argue, because you'd lose. It is true that the Bush administration is packed with incompetent cronies. And this is another example. This problem with computer security at the VA has been known for over five years and this patronage appointee has done nothing to correct it.

quote:
[QB ... but that does not demonstrate that they are responsible for this incident. [/QB]
Exactly the point, Sxepto, Bush and his cronies are not responsible, in fact what they are is totallly irresponsible. Grossly negligent, would be another way to put it.

And you, Sxepto, have a vested interest in defending irresponsibility, don't you?

We're discussing 26.5-million veterans who have been discharged since 1975 and are now suffering from this act of gross incompetence. These men and women knew what their responsibility was and they accepted it.

I speak from experience that the military will teach you about responsibility, and the costs of incompetence.

But you ... you were born in 1977?

You're 29 years old, there's a war on, you're stateside, and you're defending the screw ups who screwed 26.5-milllion veterans?

When you learn the meaning of responsibility we can resume this discussion.

I hear Jace Raven is looking for a few good men. We'll see if you qualify.

CP

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Rhonwyyn

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Icon 1 posted May 25, 2006 16:17      Profile for Rhonwyyn   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
CP, you may be ancient, but you sound like one pissy little brat throwing a temper tantrum. Once you calm down and can speak rationally about your beef with the current administration--without stooping to ad hominem attacks and other similar fallacies of argument--then I will actually listen to what you have to say and give you the respect you think you deserve. Until then, the grumpy old man routine will get you nowhere. At least, not with me. Sxepto's calm, cool, and collected reasoning goes a long way in promoting his beliefs, no matter how much I may or may not agree with them. It's much easier to hear a patient, rational "young" man than it is to hear a whining, angry old geezer. You'd be wise to learn from him.

EDIT: As far as respecting you for your veteran status? Did you willingly enter the armed forces or were you drafted? If you had no choice but to fight, then bully for you. And if you entered the armed forces thinking you'd receive all sorts of praise and respect for your "service," take off the rose-coloured glasses, honey. It takes a stronger man to go against the tide of popular opinion. Want to meet men who have EARNED respect by standing up for their beliefs and choosing to serve their country in productive ways instead of going to other countries and slaughtering their citizens? Let me introduce you to the 1000s of men who served in the Civilian Conservation Corps as part of W-2 service during World War II, incurring the derision and persecution by soldiers around them. Let me introduce you to the men who wanted to serve their country, but because of health issues had to stay home and hold up the economy, daily suffering the scorn of their peers and communities for not doing the "honourable" thing by going to war. Those are the brave men who made it through. The "boys" in foreign countries may have suffered, but so did the people back home. Instead of coming back and expecting everyone to bow down before you, how about thanking everyone here that the country you knew before you left is still here and apparently growing wealthier by the second?

Just get off your high horse, come down to the level of mortal man, and then maybe we'll be inclined to listen to you.

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GameMaster
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Icon 1 posted May 25, 2006 16:20      Profile for GameMaster   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
CP, you seem to hold "righties" responsible for everything. I've posted a number of cases where you were completely wrong at it was "leftie". You even posted about a stupid MTV show, and somehow came to the conclussion that all the rich girls were daughters of republicans... And that shows like this are also "righties" fault.

You posted about a pay mix up, where some military bean counter wanted to reclaim money that was payed at the wrong rate, and for lost equipment -- and that was republicians faults... dispite the person in the legislation fighting the battle to stop this ass is a *gasp* "righty". To which, you didn't respond.

You posted about "righty" going asking for phone records (NSA) from telco companies (dispite the party or persons initating the effort was left out of any article I could find on the subject), but when there was democrate proposing legistaltion that forces ISP to keep logs for extended periods so that they can be used in a similar fashion -- you posted nothing.

Selective outrage and vission. Everything is OBVIOUSLY Bush's fault. Anyone who can point to "lefty" doing wrong is OBVIOUSLY believing in the "FOX NEWS super hero commic book"... Even when posted related articles were from the (arguably left leaning) AP lines, comming from sources such as Yahoo! News and a democratic senator's website...

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Posts: 3038 | From: State of insanity | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged


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