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Author Topic: Infidelity ?
Thorned0Fortress
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Icon 5 posted May 01, 2006 20:27      Profile for Thorned0Fortress   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I am curious to know who views what as cheating. Statistics say that men are more likely to engage in infidelity that women, and are more likely to not admit it. WOMEN, however, have more 'affairs' than men.
Why?
More importantly : Why does anyone do it in the first place?
What causes a person to cheat?... lack of morals, or just more oppurtunities?
And who do you think takes it the hardest ?
I have much more to say, but I would first like to get some feedback.

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Rhonwyyn

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Icon 1 posted May 01, 2006 20:34      Profile for Rhonwyyn   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Cheating on a relationship, huh? Well, for someone to cheat, you first have to have a committed relationship. If there's no commitment, dating other people isn't cheating. However, if you're committed to someone, either in a dating or marital relationship, connecting emotionally or sexually with someone other than your partner constitutes cheating. Many times, it's the mental fantasy that constitutes most of the affair, but those can cause as much damage--if not more--to your relationship.

When I have more time (we're super-busy at work), I'll finish my thoughts.

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GameMaster
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Icon 1 posted May 02, 2006 01:02      Profile for GameMaster   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I am curious to know who views what as cheating. Statistics say that men are more likely to engage in infidelity that women, and are more likely to not admit it. WOMEN, however, have more 'affairs' than men.

What's the line your drawing between an affair and infidlity -- repeat bussiness, or ???
Moreover, "99% of all statics are made up" and "there are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies and statistics."

Sample size? Composition of the sample? What were the exact questions asked? What's the standard deviation?

Moreover, there are also cases where there is infidelity, but no cheating... By that, I mean cases of emotional infidelity, which I imagine could be more difficult on a relationship because there is no act to "fault" and can you fault emotions and thoughts, even when there is no "immoral act".

Also note the word infidelity has religious or faith undertones... The first meaning the word had, was a "lack of faith." Which means that suspiction of cheating (where there is none) could/should also be called infidelity.

Why?

*If* the study is right and the distincion I'm making between infidelity and affairs is what I think is what they mean ... etc...

I think a lot people here will say that women are looking outside the relationship for something emotional and men looking for something physical. I'm not sure I agree.

More importantly : Why does anyone do it in the first place?

I can think of four reasons why some people might:

- They aren't getting what they want in the bed, but still genuinly care for the person they are with.

- The relationship is really over, has been for a while, and neither wants to pull the plug so one or both start other relationships without ending the one they are still in.

- Weak moment/bad judgement... "It just happened" Which is to say, they weren't thinking straight at the moment and they did something they don't ordinarily do.

- Relationship wasn't well defined, never talked about or purposfully avoided so that all parties aren't on the same page as to the nature of the relationship. This includes:
1. "We were on a break."
2. "I didn't know we were exclusive."
3. "I thought this was an open relationship."
4. "I'm polymorous, I thought you [knew that/were too]."

What causes a person to cheat?... lack of morals, or just more oppurtunities?

I know it's not the second one. And I don't think lack of morals is a casue, but a LARGE contributing factor. I know people who had ample oppertunities to cheat, but never acted on them; and I know people who never had oppertunities but were always looking to...

And who do you think takes it the hardest ?

Pardon? "who takes it the hardest?"
I think this is spesific to the instance and people involved.

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Icon 1 posted May 02, 2006 08:45      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Thorned0Fortress______________Haveing been on the bad end of infidelity some 27 years ago, I can say that the pain is very real, the hurt is very real and the loss of two friends and my wife. So hoo does infidelity hurt My kids, his kids and my trust of every one. Is it worth it for a few minutes of breath holding, depends on how much you have to lose.

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drunkennewfiemidget
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Icon 1 posted May 02, 2006 09:18      Profile for drunkennewfiemidget     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
<bad-taste-joke>
And the question everyone wants to know, is buttsecks infidelity?
</bad-taste-joke>

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rasp
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Icon 3 posted May 02, 2006 12:04      Profile for rasp     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Hi there; I am the human species' pro-bono mentat. I will answer your questions to the best of my ability. Being a human computer, I tend to be a little verbose, sorry about that.

"Statistics say that men are more likely to engage in infidelity that women, and are more likely to not admit it. WOMEN, however, have more 'affairs' than men.
Why?"


These statistics are true due to some facts of nature. The most important that you must understand, is that while males and females may be equal overall, they are really quite different. This is for no more complex a reason than 'specialization' allows one to be an expert, whereas otherwise one could only be a 'jack of all trades'; this is simply a mater of having more resources dedicated to what you are specialized for. From this fact follows teamwork, then communities, and then society; which is what allows civilization. Just as some people are good at math, and some are good at art, males are specialized for various things, and females are specialized for various other things. One very important task that women are specialized for and which men are completely unequipped is that of incubating human babies. This fact: that females have one womb, and men have zero, is the primary reason for almost everything you ask about. It is the difference out of which your questions arise. Note that I said 'one' womb, as this is an important point. One female has only one womb which when inseminated, is then infertile for the next 9 months. I will finalize my explanation of this in the answer to your last question, as it fits best there.

The infidelity that men do more would be defined as simply having sex for the pleasure of the sex (orgasm, the ego boost, etc.), and not for the relationship. The 'affairs' that women are known for, is referred differently, as it is not just for the sex (if at all), but is for the relationship more so. Of course there are exceptions and some men will cheat for the relationship, and some women will cheat for sex. However, the majority of the time, the female is looking for what she evolved to look for in life: a supportative relationship which means a strong productive man who loves her (or convinces her that he does) to both protect and also provide for her and her children. When a man cheats he is also just seeking what he is genetically programmed to desire (even if only subconsciously), which is to increase the amount and the diversity of his progeny.

"More importantly : Why does anyone do it in the first place?"

Same reasons people murder, etc. ie: Their desire to give in to the temptation is stronger than their resistance.

"What causes a person to cheat?... lack of morals, or just more oppurtunities?"

Uncountable number of reasons. Most of the time it is going to be multiple reasons (he was a jerk, ugly, dumb, she felt stuck, better than him, and prince charming came to town and hit on her). Sometimes it could be just two (she was hit on by prince charming AND he made her desire (seduced her) greater than her moral will to not cheat on her loving family). The way you framed your question shows the fallacy of 99.9% of people's thinking habits (no offense, it is human nature to simplify problems in this manner). You should not think always (automatically) that things are black and white, one or the other, republican vs. democrat, etc. Most dichotomies are false, so you would do well to always assume things are more complicated than *two opposite non-overlapping* causes/forces, until proven otherwise.

"And who do you think takes it the hardest ?"

Again, this is dictated by nature and the reality we find ourselves in (ie: laws of physics and the logical axioms that follow).

When the male cheats on the female in a committed relationship, the risks include: getting a disease (which he can then pass to his wife and their following offspring), and being seduced by his mistress (thus leaving his wife and in consequence destroying his prior family, as without artificial legislation, single moms and their children are severely marginalized by nature/reality). These are most likely the top two evolutionary pressures that have genetically programmed females to mind very much when their man is attempting to inseminate other women. There is also a supplementary reason (as it is much less grave an evolutionary pressure than the other two): the male would be spending resources to make himself more appealing for the purpose of cheating, plus any resources he spends directly on his conquest in order to bed her is all diverted from his wife and children.

When the female cheats on the male, the risks include: getting a disease (same as other way around, except it is a documented fact that females are much more vulnerable to STDs simply due to the mechanics of sex and the vagina, ie: *soft* *internal* flesh *accepting fluids*), being seduced by her mistress (and thus abandoning her current children to a worse fate than being raised by both their biological parents: either staying with the father who will inherently (due to evolutionary pressure) resent (discriminate against) the children who are 50% the genetics that cheated and left him, or: being adopted into the females new family where it is a documented fact that a step parent has orders of magnitude less love for the step kids (again, evolutionary pressure that he should not waste his resources on offspring that are not his), or the third fate of them just being abandoned all together -- making this approximately equally bad as the other way around (male leaving female for mistress)). Finally, the most important risk of all, one that only applies to the female cheating on the male, is that the cheating female can get pregnant!

That fact is the most important reason out of everything that I listed for either gender and in answering your question. The man cannot get pregnant, and thus, the female cannot resent him cheating because of the reason that he got pregnant. The man getting some other female preganant is absolutely immaterial to his wife (remember, when evolution was happening for the last millions of years, there was no single mom child support legislation, so the male getting other females pregnant is not a drain on resources, it is simply 'fire and forget'). Compare this to when the female comes home, pregnant with some other males genetic offspring inside her womb. Not only has his wife been 'utilized' by another man, but she is now unavailable for her most important specialization that the human species would cease to exist without and only she can provide: her life giving womb. For the next nine months, her womb is out of order, in that her husband now has to wait almost a year before he can have his next child with his wife. He has to now wait while his wife, the partner committed to a cooperative longterm relationship in order to raise a family, incubates and feeds some other males offspring. Every pound on her body, every stretch mark, every wrinkle, every sag, every time she goes off, all the extra help (resources) she needs, pampering (resources), etc..., all for another man's offspring? Now, assuming the male doesn't know the child isn't his, then it would be born, and now he would assume it as his, thus diverting resources from his other children to this child which is not his, thus he is diverting resources from his genetics to another man's genetics. The more illegitimate children the female bears, the more resources the male and his legitmate children are being robbed of. With modern families so small, even with only one illegitimate child in the family, the ratio of wasted resources is huge. Already you can see how this is much, much, worse, evolutionary, logically, or even simply emotionally (which is a result of said evolutionary forces, so this all might not sound as bad to a female as a male), than any risk caused by the male cheating on his mate -- although the male getting a fatal STD and passing it on to his wife and all children is obviously much worse than one illegitimate child; however, it is also many orders of magnitude less likely that from one extramarital coupling, one would get an STD, whereas when the female cheats, pregnancy is almost certain (since we are talking reasons, thus evolution, thus we are talking before condoms and birth control pills).

I would like to add, that simply because the family and partner suffer less when it is the male that cheated, doesn't mean that it makes it okay for the male to cheat (obviously). The reasons are more than 'it is still some amount hurtful to the female'. When either partner cheats, they are risking hurt to themselves and their family. They are also possibly damaging another family (if that mist(e)ress wasn't single), and definitely hurting society as a whole. If you hate your nation, then this won't mater to you I suppose. Either way, cheating by either partner is a completely selfish, family and nation destroying activity. By the way, if you chart the monogamy factor of humanity for the last few hundred thousand years, we were always evolving towards being more monogamous and virtuous,... until about the 1960's. Now drug companies make far too much profit off of the STD industry to ever let politicians reverse said social experiment.

Rasp

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Icon 1 posted May 02, 2006 12:48      Profile for Stereo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Nice entrance there, Rasp. I do not agree 100% to what you said, but it's definitely well said (and even entertaining). Don't hesitate to tell us more about you in the "All about you" forum.

Welcome!

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Eppur, si muove!

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fs

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Icon 1 posted May 02, 2006 19:10      Profile for fs   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Didn't we already have this discussion somewhere?

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HalfVast

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Icon 1 posted May 02, 2006 19:26      Profile for HalfVast     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
DNM wrote:
<bad-taste-joke>
And the question everyone wants to know, is buttsecks infidelity?
</bad-taste-joke>

'Depends. Are you pitching or catching?
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csk

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Icon 1 posted May 03, 2006 05:50      Profile for csk     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Thorned0Fortress:
I am curious to know who views what as cheating. Statistics say that men are more likely to engage in infidelity that women, and are more likely to not admit it. WOMEN, however, have more 'affairs' than men.
Why?
More importantly : Why does anyone do it in the first place?

Usually because there's some unmet need in their current relationship. But yes, opportunity, boredom, temptation, whatever, tend to come along too. I've read that most affairs tend to start off via talking, then the affairees get to know each other really well and talk about deep and meaningful stuff, then it proceeds to physical from there.

quote:
What causes a person to cheat?... lack of morals, or just more oppurtunities?
And who do you think takes it the hardest ?

Well, the person cheated on usually takes it the hardest, although the cheating person can be in the difficult situation of being totally regretful, sorry, repentant etc but not being able to undo the hurt it has caused. Of course if the cheated on victim happens to have low self image, it's even worse. For example, I know a girl who's been cheated on three times by her boyfriend (yes, not ex). When he'd had a few he decided to grab the breasts of another girl, within sight of his girlfriend. Guess what, she now blames the other girl for leading him on (she wasn't)... She has really low self esteem, if that wasn't obvious...

Now what is cheating? Interesting question, because it varies from person to person. In the absence of any other agreement, anything from mouth kissing and further would probably be viewed as cheating in a physical sense by most people. I guess cheating is doing anything that you wouldn't want the other person in a relationship finding out about.

quote:
Originally posted by dnm:

<bad-taste-joke>
And the question everyone wants to know, is buttsecks infidelity?
</bad-taste-joke>

Most likely, if more than one person is involved [Wink]

--------------------
6 weeks to go!

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crazyarlo
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Icon 4 posted May 03, 2006 08:04      Profile for crazyarlo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Since no relationship is perfect, people fill their needs elsewhere on occasion. It's much more common than most people realize. If you have a spouse (or S.O.) who takes you for granted, you may cheat. If you have a spouse that hates your family, you may cheat. If you have a spouse that thinks you are stupid, doesn't like how you raise your kids, doesn't care if you have sex or not, spends money like crazy, is very jealous, doesn't have that much in common with you, doesn't like your geekiness, doesn't let you express yourself creatively, is high maintenance or demanding, doesn't respect you or your career, hates computers, hates your friends, doesn't share your taste in foods or movies, has completely different ideas about what a "vacation " is, isn't really that happy around you, argues with all of your decisions, won't let you make mutual money decisions, does not enjoy the same sex acts as you, is less or more interested in sex than you, etc etc. all these things make people cheat.

This stuff happens in very good solid relationships, because something is always missing, and most people refuse to deal with it. I am AMAZED at how many of my friends have had "affairs", some of whom are upright community leaders! (I know, that's a cliche) but it's true...anybody can feel unfulfilled and seek some type of confirmation in the arms of another person.

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drunkennewfiemidget
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Icon 1 posted May 03, 2006 08:55      Profile for drunkennewfiemidget     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by crazyarlo:
Since no relationship is perfect, people fill their needs elsewhere on occasion. It's much more common than most people realize. If you have a spouse (or S.O.) who takes you for granted, you may cheat. If you have a spouse that hates your family, you may cheat. If you have a spouse that thinks you are stupid, doesn't like how you raise your kids, doesn't care if you have sex or not, spends money like crazy, is very jealous, doesn't have that much in common with you, doesn't like your geekiness, doesn't let you express yourself creatively, is high maintenance or demanding, doesn't respect you or your career, hates computers, hates your friends, doesn't share your taste in foods or movies, has completely different ideas about what a "vacation " is, isn't really that happy around you, argues with all of your decisions, won't let you make mutual money decisions, does not enjoy the same sex acts as you, is less or more interested in sex than you, etc etc. all these things make people cheat.

This stuff happens in very good solid relationships, because something is always missing, and most people refuse to deal with it. I am AMAZED at how many of my friends have had "affairs", some of whom are upright community leaders! (I know, that's a cliche) but it's true...anybody can feel unfulfilled and seek some type of confirmation in the arms of another person.

One might suggest that if any of these situations were the case, they shouldn't have become spouses in the first place?

I realise some of these things you can't know before marriage, and some of these things might change during marriage .. but...

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maybe.logic
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Icon 1 posted May 03, 2006 10:16      Profile for maybe.logic     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Thorned0Fortress:
More importantly : Why does anyone do it in the first place?

I'll tell you why...

Because sex gets boring.

(In most cases with men) - We just like a little change every now and again. ; [Applause]

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zesovietrussian
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Icon 1 posted May 03, 2006 10:38      Profile for zesovietrussian     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by maybe.logic:
quote:
Originally posted by Thorned0Fortress:
More importantly : Why does anyone do it in the first place?

I'll tell you why...

Because sex gets boring.

(In most cases with men) - We just like a little change every now and again. ; [Applause]

Herr Troll, try using your other hand.
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fs

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Icon 1 posted May 03, 2006 12:08      Profile for fs   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by maybe.logic:
quote:
Originally posted by Thorned0Fortress:
More importantly : Why does anyone do it in the first place?

I'll tell you why...

Because sex gets boring.

(In most cases with men) - We just like a little change every now and again. ; [Applause]

Yeah, cause it's always the chicks that are boring in bed. [Roll Eyes]

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Black Widow
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Icon 1 posted May 03, 2006 13:19      Profile for Black Widow     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by FireSnake:
quote:
Originally posted by maybe.logic:
quote:
Originally posted by Thorned0Fortress:
More importantly : Why does anyone do it in the first place?

I'll tell you why...

Because sex gets boring.

(In most cases with men) - We just like a little change every now and again. ; [Applause]

Yeah, cause it's always the chicks that are boring in bed. [Roll Eyes]
/me high-fives FS [thumbsup]
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GrumpySteen

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Icon 1 posted May 03, 2006 17:39      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
FireSnake wrote:
Yeah, cause it's always the chicks that are boring in bed. [Roll Eyes]

Damn straight! There are only so many things you can do with a chicken, y'know...

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fs

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Icon 1 posted May 03, 2006 19:53      Profile for fs   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Steen:
FireSnake wrote:
Yeah, cause it's always the chicks that are boring in bed. [Roll Eyes]

Damn straight! There are only so many things you can do with a chicken, y'know...

As a partner or as an accessory?

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Rhonwyyn

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Icon 1 posted May 03, 2006 20:07      Profile for Rhonwyyn   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by FireSnake:
quote:
Originally posted by Steen:
FireSnake wrote:
There are only so many things you can do with a chicken, y'know...

As a partner or as an accessory?
Hmm... and here I was thinking appetizer or main course... Chicken satay, chicken a la king, chicken divan, chicken and shrimp supreme, shrimp gumbo, shrimp cocktail...

/me stops channeling Forest Gump

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CommanderShroom
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Icon 1 posted May 03, 2006 21:36      Profile for CommanderShroom     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Pink Flamingos taught me about the possibilities of sex with chicks.

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Has one of us confessed?
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maybe.logic
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Icon 1 posted May 04, 2006 02:27      Profile for maybe.logic     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
http://www.innovations-report.com/html/reports/life_sciences/report-46398.html

hahahahahaha

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zesovietrussian
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Icon 1 posted May 04, 2006 15:59      Profile for zesovietrussian     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by CommanderShroom:
Pink Flamingos taught me about the possibilities of sex with chicks.

Two words - Devil's Rejects. Best chickensex tips ever [Smile]
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maybe.logic
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Icon 1 posted May 05, 2006 03:26      Profile for maybe.logic     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Why would I want to find out about chicken sex?

*i scratch my head*

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fs

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Icon 1 posted May 05, 2006 09:30      Profile for fs   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by maybe.logic:
Why would I want to find out about chicken sex?

*i scratch my head*

Maybe it would assuage the boredom.

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GameMaster
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Icon 1 posted May 05, 2006 10:21      Profile for GameMaster   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by FireSnake:
quote:
Originally posted by Steen:
FireSnake wrote:
Yeah, cause it's always the chicks that are boring in bed. [Roll Eyes]

Damn straight! There are only so many things you can do with a chicken, y'know...

As a partner or as an accessory?
Depends on the crime...

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