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Author Topic: The White House vs Science
Callipygous
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Icon 1 posted January 03, 2006 15:46      Profile for Callipygous     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I heard this on Radio 4 tonight. It's a well argued piece, so if you have 40 minutes of your life to spare, here is the RealPlayer link.

In a faith based administration, who needs objective facts anyway?

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"Knowledge is Power. France is Bacon" - Milton

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AncientOne
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Icon 1 posted January 04, 2006 18:32      Profile for AncientOne     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Thanks for bringing this to our attention. The Bush administration and the Republican Congress have quietly and systematically dismantled many of the positive accomplishments in the areas of conservation and environmental protection in this country -- under both prior Republican and Democratic administrations -- as it pushes the religious right's agenda. I am hopeful that this trend is beginning to lose steam with some of the major players under indictment.
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Colonel Panic
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Icon 1 posted January 04, 2006 19:49      Profile for Colonel Panic         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I just love this new right moral push. It's all about lieing to us to get our kids killed, corruption, kickbacks and avarice.

Hmmmm. Wonder what "God" these folks are praying to?

Could it be ...

Satan?

Hey righties, when your "God" is the almighty dollar, then it ain't God almighty. Says so in that Bible y'all misquote.

Colonel Panic

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Free! Free at last!

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alfrin
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Icon 1 posted January 04, 2006 20:15      Profile for alfrin     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Easy Solution: Elect an Athiest president for a fucking change. Though the massive Catholic/Christian country wouldn't agree. So how do we have a faithless Leader in a faithfilled community. Let's face it, all the commotion, such as with the Pledge of All. is from religions who feel they arn't getting as much government support.

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Art is Resistance / Resistance is Art

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supaboy
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Icon 1 posted January 05, 2006 08:06      Profile for supaboy     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by alfrin:
Easy Solution: Elect an Athiest ... a faithless Leader in a faithfilled community.

Athiests aren't faithless: they merely have faith that there isn't a god. When dealing with the supernatural and therefore untestable, evidence is hard to come by.

Elect a quantum-mechanincal agnostic instead, and both sides get to be right until proven otherwise!
[Big Grin]

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nerdwithnofriends
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Icon 1 posted January 05, 2006 15:42      Profile for nerdwithnofriends     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by alfrin:
Easy Solution: Elect an Athiest president for a fucking change. Though the massive Catholic/Christian country wouldn't agree. So how do we have a faithless Leader in a faithfilled community. Let's face it, all the commotion, such as with the Pledge of All. is from religions who feel they arn't getting as much government support.

Allow me to correct you:

Catholics are Christians, and please don't go mistaking us with those fundamentalist protestant fools who are too ignorant to do other than interpret what the bible has to say literally.

I'd like to see another Catholic be elected president... but I doubt that will happen for a long time.
</soapbox>

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"The Buddha, the Godhead, resides quite as comfortably in the circuits of a digital computer or the gears of a cycle transmission as he does at the top of a mountain or in the petals of a flower." - Robert M. Pirsig

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Callipygous
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Icon 1 posted January 05, 2006 15:43      Profile for Callipygous     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Colonel Panic:
I just love this new right moral push. It's all about lieing to us to get our kids killed, corruption, kickbacks and avarice.

Hmmmm. Wonder what "God" these folks are praying to?

Could it be ...

Satan?

Hey righties, when your "God" is the almighty dollar, then it ain't God almighty. Says so in that Bible y'all misquote.

Colonel Panic

I wish it was as simply cynical as this, as then we might be spared some fantastically stupid decisions, but unfortunately the most powerful man in the world genuinely believes that he will get better guidance from an evening of prayer, than he might get by any precise factual knowledge, or expert opinion. If he was merely Machiavellian, I for one would be delighted. Richard Nixon would never have made such a moronic mess of things. What an achievement - he actually makes me feel nostalgic for that cheap crook! [Big Grin]

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"Knowledge is Power. France is Bacon" - Milton

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alfrin
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Icon 1 posted January 05, 2006 16:28      Profile for alfrin     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by alfrin:
Easy Solution: Elect an Athiest president for a fucking change. Though the massive Catholic/Christian country wouldn't agree. So how do we have a faithless Leader in a faithfilled community. Let's face it, all the commotion, such as with the Pledge of All. is from religions who feel they arn't getting as much government support.

How about this, we elect a monkey. Either way it's an improvement.

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Art is Resistance / Resistance is Art

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GrumpySteen

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Icon 1 posted January 05, 2006 17:31      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
The heck with what religion they are... just elect someone who doesn't lie and make decisions based on what special interest group pays them the most.

I know that'll never happen

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Worst. Celibate. Ever.

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dragon34
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Icon 2 posted January 06, 2006 15:30      Profile for dragon34     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Steen:
The heck with what religion they are... just elect someone who doesn't lie and make decisions based on what special interest group pays them the most.

I know that'll never happen

[Applause] ditto. I believe that noone who actually wants to run for president should be allowed to do so. That and term limits for congress. I don't think the founding fathers ever intended "career politicians" but then they probably didn't expect the life expectancy to get close to 80 either.

Then there's the whole millions upon millions of dollars spent over the course of about a year for the candidates to rat on eachother on national television, so by the time election day actually does come around, everyone is so disgusted with the whole thing, that they don't bother voting. I did vote, but I definitely felt like it was futile. (As it turned out it was, as soon as Dean was eliminated I pretty much lost interest) Seeing as the candidates no longer need a year to take trains around the country and speak so that local people can meet them, can't we just shorten the whole thing to 1 or 2 months? Or ban TV ads that don't appear during debates? Or lower the maximum personal or corporate donation amount to 50 bucks and not let people use their own funds? Or all of the above?

//sick of rich old white men running the freaking country.
//Doesn't understand how people can donate 2000 dollars to political campaigns.
//still paying more than rent in student loan payments
Note to the college bound: really, spend the time to get scholarships.. It's worth it. Really.

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The-Tech
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Icon 1 posted January 26, 2006 12:17      Profile for The-Tech     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
[Applause] ditto. I believe that noone who actually wants to run for president should be allowed to do so. That and term limits for congress. I don't think the founding fathers ever intended "career politicians" but then they probably didn't expect the life expectancy to get close to 80 either.

Absolutley !! My list of reforms would be simple
1. one term that lasts 6 years for President

2. 2 Terms for Senate and Congress

3. Each Candidate for President will get the same amount of money from a general fund. They cannot add to it or accept donations from any one ... Not GM Not Rosie O'Donnel Not some Religuos group in the mid- west no more money make due with what your given and show me how well you manage money.

I would also like to mention that the next time someone asks a canidate about smoking marijuana I voting for the person who says " ... I'm high right now"

Dave

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God not only plays dice with the universe,
he sometimes throws them where they cannot be seen
--- Stephen Hawking

A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject -- Winston Churchill

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drunkennewfiemidget
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Icon 1 posted January 26, 2006 13:16      Profile for drunkennewfiemidget     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by The-Tech:

I would also like to mention that the next time someone asks a canidate about smoking marijuana I voting for the person who says " ... I'm high right now"

Dave

I agree with most of your points, and I'm sure you said this one in jest, but I disagree that the leader of a country should be a devout pothead, since (s)he'd be too busy getting baked to notice what's going on.

In that vein, however, people need to shut the fuck up and give up this argument about pot. It does not cause people to go after their friends with a chainsaw (a la reefer madness). I agree you shouldn't smoke up and drive, since it inhibits your judgement and response time, but it's time the stupid stuck-up politicians got off their highhorses and realised that pot is nothing other than something some people do, and it CERTAINLY isn't any worse than smoking tobacco or drinking alcohol.

I'm sick and tired of reading about politicians being quizzed as to whether theyve smoked pot in their lives, as if it's had any adverse affect on their lives. Who the hell cares?

And don't give me the gateway drug bullshit excuse either.

(Despite being an advocate of the legalisation of a god damned PLANT, I have never smoked it in my life -- never really wanted to.)

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MacManKrisK

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Icon 1 posted January 27, 2006 12:55      Profile for MacManKrisK     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
"Mr. President, have you ever smoked marijuana."

"Yes, once, but I never exhaled.... Whooooo"

--------------------
"Buy low, sell high
get rich and you still die"


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Grummash

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Icon 1 posted January 27, 2006 14:01      Profile for Grummash     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
originally posted by drunkennewfiemidget:
...that pot is nothing other than something some people do, and it CERTAINLY isn't any worse than smoking tobacco or drinking alcohol.

In the UK, the Legalise Cannabis campaign used to make much of the statistic that only one death in the UK was directly attributable to cannabis, and that was when a one tonne bale of grass fell off a crane at the docks and squashed a man flat [crazy]

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...and yet, across the gulf of space, minds immeasurably superior to ours regarded this earth with envious eyes...

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Matias
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Icon 1 posted January 27, 2006 14:24      Profile for Matias   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
In the UK, the Legalise Cannabis campaign used to make much of the statistic that only one death in the UK was directly attributable to cannabis, and that was when a one tonne bale of grass fell off a crane at the docks and squashed a man flat
He probably smiled the whole time. [Big Grin]

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A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.

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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted January 27, 2006 16:18      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by drunkennewfiemidget:
people need to shut the fuck up and give up this argument about pot. It does not cause people to go after their friends with a chainsaw (a la reefer madness).

Try telling that to the families of the many schizophrenics who often suffer quite nasty 'episodes' after smoking dope.

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If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

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drunkennewfiemidget
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Icon 1 posted January 27, 2006 20:12      Profile for drunkennewfiemidget     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by The Famous Druid:
quote:
Originally posted by drunkennewfiemidget:
people need to shut the fuck up and give up this argument about pot. It does not cause people to go after their friends with a chainsaw (a la reefer madness).

Try telling that to the families of the many schizophrenics who often suffer quite nasty 'episodes' after smoking dope.
Well, I'm sure those people would be no better drinking alcohol anyway.

The voices in my head tell me so.

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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted February 09, 2006 12:23      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
<necropost>
Looks like the Whitehouse has lost one battle in its War On Science.

quote:
During his time at the space agency, he insisted that the word "theory" be added whenever the "big bang" was mentioned, claiming it was "more than a science issue, it is a religious issue". He claimed: "It is not NASA's place, nor should it be, to make a declaration such as this about the existence of the universe that discounts intelligent design by a creator."

Mr Deutsch also attempted to restrict the access of NASA's chief climate scientist, James Hansen, to the media after he warned about the need to limit greenhouse gas emissions linked to global warming.

Dr Hansen said he was threatened with "dire consequences" by White House appointees at NASA's headquarters if he continued to call for prompt action. But he said the problem went much further than just one political appointee.

</necropost>

--------------------
If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

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ChildeRoland
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Icon 1 posted February 09, 2006 12:57      Profile for ChildeRoland     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by nerdwithnofriends:
quote:
Originally posted by alfrin:
Easy Solution: Elect an Athiest president for a fucking change. Though the massive Catholic/Christian country wouldn't agree. So how do we have a faithless Leader in a faithfilled community. Let's face it, all the commotion, such as with the Pledge of All. is from religions who feel they arn't getting as much government support.

Allow me to correct you:

Catholics are Christians, and please don't go mistaking us with those fundamentalist protestant fools who are too ignorant to do other than interpret what the bible has to say literally.

I'd like to see another Catholic be elected president... but I doubt that will happen for a long time.
</soapbox>

The bible itself says that we should read, and interpret, it for ourselves. Where does the bible give the Catholic church (or any organization) control over anyone's salvation? Quick answer, it doesn't, Catholic dogma does.

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=====================
Childe Roland

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ChildeRoland
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Icon 1 posted February 09, 2006 13:00      Profile for ChildeRoland     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by The Famous Druid:
<necropost>
Looks like the Whitehouse has lost one battle in its War On Science.

quote:
During his time at the space agency, he insisted that the word "theory" be added whenever the "big bang" was mentioned, claiming it was "more than a science issue, it is a religious issue". He claimed: "It is not NASA's place, nor should it be, to make a declaration such as this about the existence of the universe that discounts intelligent design by a creator."

Mr Deutsch also attempted to restrict the access of NASA's chief climate scientist, James Hansen, to the media after he warned about the need to limit greenhouse gas emissions linked to global warming.

Dr Hansen said he was threatened with "dire consequences" by White House appointees at NASA's headquarters if he continued to call for prompt action. But he said the problem went much further than just one political appointee.

</necropost>
But, isn't the Big Bang Theory in fact a theory? Why would we not call it what it is?

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=====================
Childe Roland

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ChildeRoland
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Icon 1 posted February 09, 2006 13:03      Profile for ChildeRoland     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by dragon34:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Steen:
[qb]
I don't think the founding fathers ever intended "career politicians" but then they probably didn't expect the life expectancy to get close to 80 either.
can't we just shorten the whole thing to 1 or 2 months? Or ban TV ads that don't appear during debates? Or lower the maximum personal or corporate donation amount to 50 bucks and not let people use their own funds? Or all of the above?

No, we can't. There's a little thing called the Constitution that gets in the way.

What is wrong with people supporting the organization that they chose? Should they not be allowed to get the people that they agree with elected? Maybe we should just appoint a King, then his eldest child can be president, and we won't have to worry about people getting who they want into office. Perhaps every 4 years we just choose someone random from the census reports...

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=====================
Childe Roland

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TMBWITW,PB

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Icon 1 posted February 09, 2006 13:06      Profile for TMBWITW,PB     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by ChildeRoland:
Perhaps every 4 years we just choose someone random from the census reports...

That might work as well as the current system...

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"Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and it may be necessary from time to time to give a stupid or misinformed beholder a black eye."
óMiss Piggy

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Sxeptomaniac

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Icon 1 posted February 09, 2006 14:02      Profile for Sxeptomaniac   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by TMBWITW,PB:
quote:
Originally posted by ChildeRoland:
Perhaps every 4 years we just choose someone random from the census reports...

That might work as well as the current system...
I was just thinking that same thing.

Of course, we would have only about a 27% chance that the person would even have a college degree...

I like those odds. [Wink]

quote:
Originally posted by ChildeRoland:
The bible itself says that we should read, and interpret, it for ourselves. Where does the bible give the Catholic church (or any organization) control over anyone's salvation? Quick answer, it doesn't, Catholic dogma does.

Not that your post seems to have much to do with the topic at hand, but I can't really remember any church claiming to have control over a person's salvation. The dogma of Catholicism, or pretty much any other Christian Church, would have statements regarding what a person must do to be saved, not that they decide who is saved.

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Let's pray that the human race never escapes from Earth to spread its iniquity elsewhere. - C. S. Lewis

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ChildeRoland
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Icon 1 posted February 09, 2006 16:14      Profile for ChildeRoland     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
You've never read Luther's 95 Theses have you? Here it is if you want to know the actual truth. Or, his Smalcald Articles.

And, I know it's not really pertinent to the conversation at hand, but it is wrong for nwnf to insult protestants as a whole just because his church told him that they were/are wrong without doing any research or study into the subject.

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=====================
Childe Roland

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nerdwithnofriends
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Icon 1 posted February 09, 2006 17:12      Profile for nerdwithnofriends     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by ChildeRoland:
You've never read Luther's 95 Theses have you? Here it is if you want to know the actual truth. Or, his Smalcald Articles.

And, I know it's not really pertinent to the conversation at hand, but it is wrong for nwnf to insult protestants as a whole just because his church told him that they were/are wrong without doing any research or study into the subject.

And I'm not insulting all protestants- just the extremist fundamentalist ones. What I'm trying to get across is that maybe there's a reason the Catholic church forbade the reading of the bible by the masses for so long- if you take it literally, you are bound to run into trouble. I just hate it when people say 'I hate christians because they don't believe (or are not supposed to believe in) evolution.' This is blatantly untrue, even for many protestant churches.

I also dislike being associated with the 'religious right' and/or republicans because I'm Catholic. Most Catholics vote democratic, if you must know.

I really can't stand to be associated with the southern fundamentalists who are an all-out jihad on science just because 'bible says it ain't true'. Much the same way many Americans can't stand to be associated with Mr. Bush or his administration.


Just because you disagree with me, don't accuse me of ignorance. I make it a point to know what I'm talking about when it comes to religion.

--------------------
"The Buddha, the Godhead, resides quite as comfortably in the circuits of a digital computer or the gears of a cycle transmission as he does at the top of a mountain or in the petals of a flower." - Robert M. Pirsig

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