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Author Topic: The Holiday Is "Christmas"
Erbo
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Icon 1 posted December 11, 2005 21:43            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
You may have noticed that so many people are trying to call the upcoming holiday something other than "Christmas"--especially businesses.

Fellow geek Jeff has a message for all those businesses: "If You Want My Money, You'll Call It 'Christmas'."

Spread the word.

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TMBWITW,PB

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Icon 1 posted December 11, 2005 21:59      Profile for TMBWITW,PB     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I thought the holiday was Wintereenmas. [Confused]

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"Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and it may be necessary from time to time to give a stupid or misinformed beholder a black eye."
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Xanthine

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Icon 1 posted December 11, 2005 22:10      Profile for Xanthine     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I thought it was Marketing-mas. Or Spend-all-your-money-and-then-max-your-credit-card(s)-mas. Or Commercial-mas. Or Stupid-singing-elves-mas. Or Stress-to-the-max-mas. Or End-it-soon-mas. Or Let's-spend-time-debating-about-nothing-mas.

Give it a rest and donate your time and energy to a charity or something. It's the giving season. Yeesh.

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And it's one, two, three / On the wrong side of the lee / What were you meant for? / What were you meant for?
- The Decemberists

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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted December 12, 2005 01:09      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Don't be silly, every geek knows it's Newton-mass [Wink]

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If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

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Demosthenes
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Icon 1 posted December 12, 2005 06:18      Profile for Demosthenes     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Screw you, the Pagans did it first, and it's called Jøl, thankyouverymuch.

You're fighting for Christmas? Then take a look at everything you celebrate.

Christ was born during the Israeli tax season, traditionally after the harvest; why, then, are you celebrating on the winter solstice?

Is there a tree in your living room? Did you know that decorating an evergreen tree (but not chopping it down; Pagans have some respect for living things, y'know) and leaving gifts under it for the Jøl pre-dates Christmas, or even Christ, by hundreds of years? The first "Christmas tree" to be chopped down and brought into a house was by St. Boniface, who chopped down an oak tree that a Germanic tribe was worshiping, then brought it indoors for all to see, as a punishment.

Enjoying the kisses underneath the mistletoe? It's from an ancient Druid custom at winter solstice. Mistletoe was considered a divine plant and it symbolized love and peace. The tradition of kissing under the mistletoe is Druid in origin.

So there. If you want to force Christmas on the rest of the world, bump it to the ancient Hebrew tax season, and quit treading on every other religion's toes, before I rise up and beat you with a Menorah. [Big Grin]

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garlicguy

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Icon 1 posted December 12, 2005 06:58      Profile for garlicguy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
And phooey on youey, Demosthenes! [Big Grin] The Israelites borrowed the custom and the Christian Church outright stole it and moved it to (what at the time we thought was) the solstice and then popularized it through word-of-mouth advertising.

Possession is 9/10ths of the law, so it is our Holiday now. But we're willing to share. Just don't try to take it back... [Roll Eyes]

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I don't know what I was thinking... it seemed like a good idea at the time.

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GMx

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Icon 1 posted December 12, 2005 07:26      Profile for GMx     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Or Saturnalia [Razz]
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drunkennewfiemidget
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Icon 1 posted December 12, 2005 08:48      Profile for drunkennewfiemidget     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I ranted about this on my website already.

I don't give a flying fsck what the origin of it is, I don't give a flying fsck what you think of it. I don't care what you call it, I don't care what you do about it.

What I do care is when you try and impose your nonsense bullshit whining on other people and make other people conform to what you want.

Believe what you want. Just do it a little quieter, and quit jumping down the throats of people who still call it Christmas, or Jol, or Kwanzaa, or Ramadan, or chick-chiddy-bang-bang, I don't fscking care.

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Xanthine

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Icon 1 posted December 12, 2005 09:03      Profile for Xanthine     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I'll give them one thing. Calling Christmas trees holiday trees is a bit on the silly side. But as for the rest...Christians aren't the only ones celebrating a holiday that involves buying presents for people at this time of year. Hanukkah is also happening, and if you check your calendar you'll see it starts the day after Christmas this year.

All that aside, I wish the whole affair would shrivel up and go away. It completely ruins December.

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And it's one, two, three / On the wrong side of the lee / What were you meant for? / What were you meant for?
- The Decemberists

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Stereo

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Icon 12 posted December 12, 2005 09:29      Profile for Stereo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I, for one, don't mind if we have to start calling "Christmas" "Holliday", as long as it is the same for Hannuka, Ramadan, chinese's New Year, and all the rest. We shouldn't discriminate against non-Christian religions (and non-western culture), after all! [crazy]

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Callipygous
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Icon 1 posted December 12, 2005 09:33      Profile for Callipygous     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Bah! Humbug Xanthine! There's no percentage in being cynical about Christmas. Make it the holiday, or festival that you want it to be. It's no bad idea to have a time when you let your friends and family know you love them, and peace on Earth, goodwill to all men are still things we could do with a lot more of. I suspect that even the most ardent supporters of the Iraq war might agree with that.

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garlicguy

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Icon 1 posted December 12, 2005 09:50      Profile for garlicguy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by drunkennewfiemidget:
What I do care is when you try and impose your nonsense bullshit whining on other people and make other people conform to what you want.

Like I said before, Newf, nice hat! [Big Grin]

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I don't know what I was thinking... it seemed like a good idea at the time.

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dragonman97

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Icon 1 posted December 12, 2005 10:06      Profile for dragonman97   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Callipygous:
Bah! Humbug Xanthine! There's no percentage in being cynical about Christmas. Make it the holiday, or festival that you want it to be. It's no bad idea to have a time when you let your friends and family know you love them, and peace on Earth, goodwill to all men are still things we could do with a lot more of. I suspect that even the most ardent supporters of the Iraq war might agree with that.

Callipygous: Could we do it without the ridiculous "Go out and spend way more than you should" bit? Christmas is not supposed to be about all that, ya know? [MMKK can write up a page or two about that, I'm sure. [Smile] ] Really...I used to have a boss with 3 grown kids and her thing was that she had to buy a couple of 'significant' gifts for them each year, as well as a number of other things. Significant meant stuff like *furniture.* I don't believe she exactly had the money for all that, so it most assuredly went on the credit card. Meanwhile, we had a women work there alongside her...up until a few weeks before she died. This was a woman working in her 70s (or 80s for all I know) because she and her husband did not think sensibly about spending, and more or less frittered it all away. 'Tis a damn shame when people do stuff like that - and spending thousands of dollars during the 'holiday season' is a leading cause of that kind of debt. Presents/money are not an expression of love - it's the spirit in which they are given. Ergo, a single good present might be all it needs to really warm that person's heart. Not giving anything might lead to feelings of 'they didn't think of me,' but honestly, I'm sure there are other things that could be done to warm over such issues. I'm not saying that one should give nothing at Christmastime, but rather, to give sensibly, and actually *mean* it.

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There are three things you can be sure of in life: Death, taxes, and reading about fake illnesses online...

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drunkennewfiemidget
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Icon 1 posted December 12, 2005 10:14      Profile for drunkennewfiemidget     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by dragonman97:
quote:
Originally posted by Callipygous:
Bah! Humbug Xanthine! There's no percentage in being cynical about Christmas. Make it the holiday, or festival that you want it to be. It's no bad idea to have a time when you let your friends and family know you love them, and peace on Earth, goodwill to all men are still things we could do with a lot more of. I suspect that even the most ardent supporters of the Iraq war might agree with that.

Callipygous: Could we do it without the ridiculous "Go out and spend way more than you should" bit? Christmas is not supposed to be about all that, ya know? [MMKK can write up a page or two about that, I'm sure. [Smile] ] Really...I used to have a boss with 3 grown kids and her thing was that she had to buy a couple of 'significant' gifts for them each year, as well as a number of other things. Significant meant stuff like *furniture.* I don't believe she exactly had the money for all that, so it most assuredly went on the credit card. Meanwhile, we had a women work there alongside her...up until a few weeks before she died. This was a woman working in her 70s (or 80s for all I know) because she and her husband did not think sensibly about spending, and more or less frittered it all away. 'Tis a damn shame when people do stuff like that - and spending thousands of dollars during the 'holiday season' is a leading cause of that kind of debt. Presents/money are not an expression of love - it's the spirit in which they are given. Ergo, a single good present might be all it needs to really warm that person's heart. Not giving anything might lead to feelings of 'they didn't think of me,' but honestly, I'm sure there are other things that could be done to warm over such issues. I'm not saying that one should give nothing at Christmastime, but rather, to give sensibly, and actually *mean* it.
Bingo.

Or just get hideously drunk and wake up from it sometime in mid January.

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Sxeptomaniac

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Icon 1 posted December 12, 2005 10:22      Profile for Sxeptomaniac   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I've heard some people mention that they just get annoyed that each of the unique religious traditions often get lumped together as "the Holidays." Overall, it doesn't really bother me that stores are trying to address as many faiths as possible in order to bring in more business. It's what they do.

On the other hand, I get absolutely sick of hearing Christmas Carols butchered in TV and radio commercials. I sing and hear the songs enough in this season without hearing a crappy altered version about some company's product.

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Let's pray that the human race never escapes from Earth to spread its iniquity elsewhere. - C. S. Lewis

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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted December 12, 2005 12:27      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
The one good thing is that retailers here seem to have finally got the message from shoppers about the early start to "Xmas shopping".

A few years ago, some of the retailers were putting up the xmas decorations in September, which is fscking ridiculous, and really annoyed most people. This year, it was towards the end of November before all those seasonally inappropriate (for the southern hemisphere) decorations made their appearance.

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If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

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CloneArmyCommander
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Icon 1 posted December 12, 2005 12:45      Profile for CloneArmyCommander     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by The Famous Druid:
The one good thing is that retailers here seem to have finally got the message from shoppers about the early start to "Xmas shopping".

A few years ago, some of the retailers were putting up the xmas decorations in September, which is fscking ridiculous, and really annoyed most people. This year, it was towards the end of November before all those seasonally inappropriate (for the southern hemisphere) decorations made their appearance.

Hahahaha [Big Grin] . That still happens here [Big Grin] . I walked into a store, some time about September, and found an aisle for Halloween, Thanksgiving, AND Christmas [Big Grin] . Was kind of funny [Big Grin] .
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HikerCA
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Icon 1 posted December 12, 2005 13:08      Profile for HikerCA     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
By this time it should be patently obvious that the proper name for the 25th is the Annual Celebration of Mass Consumerism. Luckily, as an expat Canuck of Ukrainian background, the actual celebration of the nativity is on January 7. Therefore we can have our consumerist holiday on the 25th and celebrate the religious in January . . .while wearing all the stuff we got on sale at the post Xmas sales. [Razz]
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Erbo
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Icon 1 posted December 12, 2005 13:36            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
A firestorm. Well, I expected no better.

For the record, I'm not a religionist; as Pamela has rightly pointed out, I'm a traditionalist. I don't believe in throwing perfectly good, non-harmful traditions that have served us well these many years on the fire in the name of being "inoffensive." And one of those traditions is Christmas. Even in relatively recent history, they didn't call the famous TV special "A Charlie Brown Holiday," did they?

For similar reasons, I deplore what a Wisconsin school has done to "Silent Night." In response to that news, when we saw it on a TV report, I sang that carol, in the original German. There is such a rich history behind everything associated with Christmas...I do not want to see that history cast aside in the name of political correctness. As an intelligent man once said, "If we forget our history, we have no past...and no future."

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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted December 12, 2005 13:43      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Erbo:
For the record, I'm not a religionist; as Pamela has rightly pointed out, I'm a traditionalist. I don't believe in throwing perfectly good, non-harmful traditions that have served us well these many years on the fire...

So, you'd be in favour of returning the US Pledge of Allegiance to its original wording then, without that silly "under god" reference?

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If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

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CloneArmyCommander
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Icon 11 posted December 12, 2005 14:04      Profile for CloneArmyCommander     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Erbo:
For similar reasons, I deplore what a Wisconsin school has done to "Silent Night."

Ick [shake head] . If it's so "offensive" that they need to be more sensative by not singing "Silent Night," then I would have thought that they might have considered that changing the words would also be insensative. Why have the program if the holiday is so offensive to them?

I used to have some friends who were not religious at all, but they didn't find the Christmas or songs offensive. As a matter of fact, every year when our high school would put on their "Winter Holiday Talent Show" (they weren't allowed to say Christmas, but they never stopped us from saying it) they were often the ones who were most often seen participating. Just for the simple fact that it's a part of our tradtions, and it would always bring us together, and we always had fun.

I strongly believe in all of it, but it never stopped us from coming together(no matter what we believe in) and enjoy the traditions. The year we did the white elephant gift exchange was fun.

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GrumpySteen

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Icon 1 posted December 12, 2005 17:52      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I generally refer to it as two-days-off-with-pay season [Big Grin]

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zesovietrussian
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Icon 1 posted December 12, 2005 17:56      Profile for zesovietrussian     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by CloneArmyCommander:
quote:
Originally posted by Erbo:
For similar reasons, I deplore what a Wisconsin school has done to "Silent Night."

Ick [shake head] . If it's so "offensive" that they need to be more sensative by not singing "Silent Night," then I would have thought that they might have considered that changing the words would also be insensative. Why have the program if the holiday is so offensive to them?

I used to have some friends who were not religious at all, but they didn't find the Christmas or songs offensive. As a matter of fact, every year when our high school would put on their "Winter Holiday Talent Show" (they weren't allowed to say Christmas, but they never stopped us from saying it) they were often the ones who were most often seen participating. Just for the simple fact that it's a part of our tradtions, and it would always bring us together, and we always had fun.

I strongly believe in all of it, but it never stopped us from coming together(no matter what we believe in) and enjoy the traditions. The year we did the white elephant gift exchange was fun.

Bah, they should've just sung [URL=http://s86953351.onlinehome.us/images/Children of Bodom - Silent Night.mp3]this[/URL] version of "Silent Night" [evil]
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alfrin
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Icon 1 posted December 12, 2005 18:27      Profile for alfrin     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
What deeply disturbs me is the people trying to sell christmas trees as "Holiday Tree".
Please someone, name me one other holiday (modern day, massively known) that uses a tree, decorates it and puts presents underneath it. Political Correctness is poisoning the world, slowly, untill we are all afraid to mention our differences.

The solution is not saying you aren't prejudice, the solution is not noticing the difference
Though of course we all have to accept that people have different viewpoints and different ways of celebrating things. We need to stop trying to Generic-ize the world to appeal to the whole crowd

"Sell Christmas Trees to Christians"

Just as a note, I am not Christian, I'm a modern day Levayan Satanist
Call me a freak if you want. It's the only "religion' that has ever made sense to me, philosophy wise.

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ewomack
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Icon 1 posted December 12, 2005 18:59      Profile for ewomack   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Celebrate Xmas, Christmas, Jol, Saturnalia, Chaunuka, kwanzaa, or whatever the BLEEP you call it the way you want to celebrate it. Who cares what a school in Wisconsin is doing or what tv commericials depict the holiday as being? It doesn't matter one whit if you celebrate it the way you want to celebrate it. Buy a tree and call it a CHRISTMAS TREE in your house, to your family, to your guests, to your kin, etc. Whether we like it or not, America has become a hugely mutlicultual nation (don't forget the atheists). Remember we're supposed to be "the great melting pot". And most businesses, schools, and tv shows want to be as inclusive as possible while not coming off as too exclusive. Times change. Traditions change. Populations change. Bridegrooms no longer wear swords. Brides no longer wear red (unless they want to). We no longer have slavery. Women can vote. The world is dynamic and change is an integral part of it. And it will keep changing and so will our traditions and our culture. Change is good. Too much tradition can also be bad (too much change can be, too, of course). If we went back to our roots in this country then only rich white landowners could vote and indentured servitude would return (oh yeah... it has... we have contracting companies now). Not to mention folk medicine, witchcraft, cleaning our chimneys with live chickens, bloodletting, playing games that involve throwing rocks at each other, hanging, whipping... I could go on and on. Sometimes its good that societies move away from their fundamental values and open up. I think this country has overall done a great job of doing so considering all of the other rather negative things it's also responsible for.

Ok, I think I'm deflated now. [crazy]

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