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Author Topic: NEWSFLASH: Satan killed by giant flying snowball
zesovietrussian
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Icon 1 posted June 04, 2005 19:16      Profile for zesovietrussian     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Turns out the rumors were true - Apple will be ditching PPC chips in favor of Intel. Feel free to comment.
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Evendir
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Icon 1 posted June 04, 2005 21:47      Profile for Evendir     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I've been hearing rumours that Apple was growing tired of their partnership with IBM, but... yikes! I worry for what this is going to do to the identity of Apple computers.
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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted June 05, 2005 04:30      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Either the boys and girls at cnet have been using far too many recreational chemicals, or they've fallen for an Apple misinformation campaign. I'll bet my left ball that the story's b*llsh*t.

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If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

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alfrin
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Icon 1 posted June 05, 2005 08:55      Profile for alfrin     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I've been hearing a great deal lately about Apple to swich to Intel chips, so I don't think this article is a dud. Or it could be the world is out to pull the same joke over us.

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Art is Resistance / Resistance is Art

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Erbo
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Icon 1 posted June 05, 2005 16:42      Profile for Erbo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
At least one source I've read says that it might be true, but in a different way: Apple might be switching to Intel...because Intel is going to start making PPC chips. I suppose it's as least as likely as Apple uprooting its entire architectural base again.

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See more From The Erbo Files: www.erbosoft.com/blog/

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Snaggy

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Icon 5 posted June 05, 2005 17:21      Profile for Snaggy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Leander over on WIRED has an interesting take on what's up..

A new Mac/Intel platform (utilizing the Pentium D and a fast, transparent, universal emulator) for the digital distribution of movies and video?

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alfrin
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Icon 1 posted June 05, 2005 18:29      Profile for alfrin     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Does this answer your question? I mean, its not like Yahoo would lie to us [Wink]

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Art is Resistance / Resistance is Art

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csk

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Icon 1 posted June 05, 2005 18:38      Profile for csk     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I wonder if it's Apple releasing some "rumours" in order to get a better deal from IBM. After all, the same technique seems to work well for all this big companies that start rumours about switching big installations to Linux, then somehow Microsoft ends up coming through with a really good deal to make them stick with them.

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6 weeks to go!

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alfrin
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Icon 1 posted June 05, 2005 18:51      Profile for alfrin     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Or possible maybe Microsoft is releases these rumours to try to convince people that Apple just doesn't know how to make up their mind and that they know how to stick with a processor somehow making them more reliable. Just a thought

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Art is Resistance / Resistance is Art

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ASM65816
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Icon 9 posted June 05, 2005 20:21      Profile for ASM65816   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
If Apple announces that they will include software to stop Spyware on your "Mac" with a "very simple" 20 digit registration code and agreement to EULA (subject to change without notice), be very afraid. (Of course, this primarily applies to Mac users.)

quote:
... an Apple misinformation campaign.
That's my bet as well, but it's still scary and makes me think Apple is taking an interest in manipulating the stock market and industry trade.

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Once a proud programmer of Apple II's, he now spends his days and nights in cheap dives fraternizing with exotic dancers....

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drunkennewfiemidget
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Icon 1 posted June 06, 2005 05:50      Profile for drunkennewfiemidget     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I'm with csk. I think it's an effort for Apple to put some pressure on IBM to give them a better deal on their CPUs.
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Stereo

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Icon 1 posted June 06, 2005 08:53      Profile for Stereo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I can't believe it. First, we all know Mr Jobs not to be the man to settle for a second best technology. Everyone knows the current Intel line to be on the end-of-life of its development cycle, while RISC/PowerPC is still growing strong. Hey, Intel's moving to RISC-based processor, but there still havent a first processor ready (AFAIK, anyway). The heat generated by actual Intel processors is so great all the actual Mac designs would need to be redone. Mini, iMacs, PowerMacs, PowerBooks... Mr Jobs like small, sexy and noiseless designs, and the Intel deel as rumored would have all that down the drain. Add the rewriting of all apps (I don't believe in an emulator with no performance hit - it just doesn't fit with what I know of computer science) to the picture, and it all seems like erroneous rumor gone wild. That an Intel chip could be used in a peripherial device, I could accept. But as a replacement of IBM chips? I can't see how.

But of course, I could be wrong. And whenever I think, "what if I was wrong on that one?", I get scared. Does it means I will have to relearn the basics of computer science AND business decision rules?

Scare tactics from Apple, it might be (though a bit of playing hard/almost bullying from Steeve J., but that's not unheard of); rumors overamplified, it could be, I have seen so many of them come to life just to crash and burn (hard) when the real story goes out. Or here's my prediction: it's a rumor "authorized" to run without official denial in order to generate attention for some other announcement that will be made at the opening of WWDC. Now _that_ would fit the man - IMHO.

Edit: I was wrong. I am I still scared. I can't believe all that "MHz Myth" has gone overboard. I can't believe eveything we used to be told about PowerPC being more efficient MHz- and power-wise is suddenly false. I can't believe Apple accept to restart all over, re-optimizing its code for a completely different chip. I can't believe Macs won't be PowerPC anymore, when Widows is coming for it - almost. [Eek!]

On the other hand, is it a way to dump Windows overboard, getting OSX to wintel plateform at last, getting people hooked, to have them finally opt for the more integrated Macintosh brand a few years after that? [evil]

Yet, I can't believe it! [Eek!]

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Eppur, si muove!

Galileo Galilei

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HalfVast

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Icon 1 posted June 06, 2005 11:14      Profile for HalfVast     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Oh crap, it's true...

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Silly railfan pics...
Flickr!

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drunkennewfiemidget
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Icon 1 posted June 06, 2005 11:26      Profile for drunkennewfiemidget     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
[Eek!]
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Bregalad
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Icon 1 posted June 06, 2005 11:28      Profile for Bregalad     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I don't understand how Apple expects to sell any computers this year. People don't like buying things that are obsolete before they even leave the store. So Apple is going to have to rely entirely on the iPod stuff to sustain them for a whole year. Kiss that big pile of cash goodbye Steve.

Next big problem: virus and spyware that packs x86 code will be able to infect Macs. Say goodbye to our safe computing platform.

A Mac with an Intel core is just a firmware hack away from a $999 Dell or $699 do-it-yourself box. Apple won't be able to sell hardware at a profit.

So the real news today is that Apple is attempting to take on Microsoft as an x86 OS company. Every single one that has tried so far has failed. Good luck.

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drunkennewfiemidget
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Icon 1 posted June 06, 2005 11:35      Profile for drunkennewfiemidget     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Bregalad:

Next big problem: virus and spyware that packs x86 code will be able to infect Macs. Say goodbye to our safe computing platform.

Maybe I'm in a bad mood today. Maybe there's been an influx of ignorance today I don't know.

When was the last virus written in bytecode or spyware written in bytecode that you know of? Last I checked, 99.9% of the viruses and spyware shit being released in the last 5 years or so has been written in fucking VISUAL BASIC. I've seen viruses crash because they couldn't find "VBRUN500.DLL".

If the system is still running MacOS (which it will be), the syscall numbers will be different, so unless it's written at the lowest level possible (which no viruses are anymore), there's no chance of all those viruses and scripts out there continuing to work.

It's not the damned CPU's fault Windows security is an oxymoron.

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Stereo

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Icon 1 posted June 06, 2005 13:28      Profile for Stereo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Bregalad:
I don't understand how Apple expects to sell any computers this year. People don't like buying things that are obsolete before they even leave the store. So Apple is going to have to rely entirely on the iPod stuff to sustain them for a whole year. Kiss that big pile of cash goodbye Steve.

[snipped: malware point covered by DNM]

A Mac with an Intel core is just a firmware hack away from a $999 Dell or $699 do-it-yourself box. Apple won't be able to sell hardware at a profit.

So the real news today is that Apple is attempting to take on Microsoft as an x86 OS company. Every single one that has tried so far has failed. Good luck.

I'm not sure whether you are right or wrong. I got a new iMac two months ago. I am not happy to know that in two years, that Mac will be utterly obsolete, and I'm scared that by then, any new software will be made available for the new chip only - even if Apple says fat binary will be easy. So the usual 4-5 years of practical use I usually get for my Macs will be considerably shortened. Yet, this fear may rest unfounded, and PowerPC support may continue for years before the Apple developpers community gives it up.

More of concern is the fact that I've read on Macworld's forum that Intel chips are actually cost more than the actual PowerPC. I don't know if it's true, but if so, that's a huge hit for Apple's margin, and new Macs may end up costing more than they already do. (Remember, the price of an actual Mac already has the R&D and design cost factored in; these costs won't disapear.)

Now why it could be a big hit stands in one word: Darwin. Yes, the open source foundation of OS X. Apple could continue producing highly integrated hardware with tight rein on what hardware is supported, while the hardware companies and general hackers could add drivers for new hardware. And of course, get OS X working on actual Intel computers (and others too, as AMD and co. pretend to be compatible with Intel chipset). You are not without knowing that the margin is much higher on software than hardware. Imagine a few million more copies of OS X sold because of its sudden availability to the Wintel world.

My main sore point at this time: Altivec. How will Intel replace that is a big question mark.

Now, will Intel develop a completely new chipset for Apple (the same way the PowerPC G5 is not the same IBM has in its servers), or will they be the same ones that fit the actual Wintel world, that is another question.

All in all, I am still stumped - and afraid. I wish Apple has a serious and solid plan for the next few years, 'cause this could spell the end of it all. Damn, I don't want to give up my Mac! [devil wand]

(Nitrozac, Snaggy - not too shaken? Any opinion on this? Already working hard for the next JoT? [Wink] )

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Eppur, si muove!

Galileo Galilei

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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted June 06, 2005 13:46      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Colour me stunned.

This looks like a very high risk move for Apple, I had been holding out for the WWDC before buying a mac laptop, now I'm not keen on buying what may well be the last generation of the PPC machines. I may wait until the first of the Intel macs ship, or just buy a cheap Wintel one now.

Looks to me like Jobs has abandoned the vision of Apple as a hardware company, he's betting it all on selling lots of copies of OS X to existing Windows customers. This could work, imagine the new 'switcher' campaign...

"I was tired of all those Windows viruses and security problems, so I dropped into an Apple store and bought a copy of OS X, and all my problems are solved"

btw - the next incarnation of OS X has been dubbed 'Leopard', who says they don't change their spots ?

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If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

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littlefish
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Icon 1 posted June 06, 2005 14:14      Profile for littlefish   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Well it is a surprise, but I doubt that apple will satrt selling the OS without the hardware.
An interesting take on the switch is on Leander Kahney's blog.

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magefile
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Icon 1 posted June 06, 2005 15:04      Profile for magefile     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by The Famous Druid:
btw - the next incarnation of OS X has been dubbed 'Leopard', who says they don't change their spots ?

I bet they chose 'leopard' for exactly that reason.

In fact, this might be a good thing. If Apple can somehow limit OS X to "its" hardware, then there's no *major* loss, and Wine could run on it! Plus, being on x86 might make it easier to port software to OS X.

Or am I dreaming?

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Erbo
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Icon 1 posted June 06, 2005 15:21      Profile for Erbo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I'm not a Mac-head by nature, but even I think this is a move which has a very real chance of blowing up in Apple's face. Particularly if Microsoft decides to exercise the "nuclear option," i.e., discontinuing Office for Mac, in retaliation for Apple muscling into its market space, however obliquely.

While I'm sure my brother, a financial analyst for Intel, is cheering this move, I'm just hoping that Steve doesn't wind up regretting this.

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dragonman97

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Icon 1 posted June 06, 2005 16:16      Profile for dragonman97   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Erbo:
I'm not a Mac-head by nature, but even I think this is a move which has a very real chance of blowing up in Apple's face. Particularly if Microsoft decides to exercise the "nuclear option," i.e., discontinuing Office for Mac, in retaliation for Apple muscling into its market space, however obliquely.

quote:

“We plan to create future versions of Microsoft Office for the Mac that support both PowerPC and Intel processors,” said Roz Ho, general manager of Microsoft’s Macintosh Business Unit. “We have a strong relationship with Apple and will work closely with them to continue our long tradition of making great applications for a great platform.”

I don't quite know what to think just yet about all this. Oh, except that I should be able to get a killer price on that iBook I've had my eyes on for awhile. [Wink]

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There are three things you can be sure of in life: Death, taxes, and reading about fake illnesses online...

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zesovietrussian
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Icon 1 posted June 06, 2005 17:01      Profile for zesovietrussian     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
That was a bad move, IMHO - now people will find it much harder to justify spending two grand on a Power Mac, knowing that beneath the pretty exterior are the same parts that go into a sub-$1000 Dell. Combine that with the fact that somebody might be able to find a way to hack OSX so it can run on non-Apple hardware, and they have a real problem on their hands. It would be nice if Apple finally decides to stop charging an arm and a leg for their hardware and gets their prices in line with the rest of PC makers, but that's probably just wishful thinking. I highly doubt we'll be seeing $800 Power Macs any time soon.
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ASM65816
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Icon 5 posted June 06, 2005 18:36      Profile for ASM65816   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Maybe it's like Coke? ... Market "New Mac", wait 'til people hate it, then bring back "Mac Classic" (or would that be "Mac Classic X, with Classic 9 Emulation"?)

[ohwell] ... I know I've got my Bacardi 151 around here somewhere....

Something I'm curious about: Is it possible that "someone" could obstruct Mac OS X use on Intel machines by getting exclusive license to the underlying Intel-based Unix code?

Think of it like domain name squatting -- "I can't use this for anything productive, but unless you give me a lot of money, you won't be able to use it at all."

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Once a proud programmer of Apple II's, he now spends his days and nights in cheap dives fraternizing with exotic dancers....

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dragonman97

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Icon 1 posted June 06, 2005 19:24      Profile for dragonman97   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Um...dude...ever heard of SCO?

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There are three things you can be sure of in life: Death, taxes, and reading about fake illnesses online...

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