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Author Topic: Pawns of mass destruction
The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted July 16, 2004 16:30      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Another dangerous international terrorist has been captured.

One of the first geeks to become an American national hero is behind bars, for playing chess in the wrong place. [Frown]

Ah, you've got to love the 'Land Of The Free'.

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If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

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dragonman97

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Icon 1 posted July 16, 2004 17:01      Profile for dragonman97   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
If you read the /. commentary on it, he's actually a pretty sick individual, and this is not an 'innocent' act at all.

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There are three things you can be sure of in life: Death, taxes, and reading about fake illnesses online...

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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted July 17, 2004 01:03      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Ok, so the guy's a fruit-loop, and not likely to get invited to dinner at casa del Druid any time soon.

The fact remains he's spent the last 12 years on the run, and may spend the next 10 years behind bars, for the crime of playing a chess game without permission.

Unfortunately, the right to bear pawns was not written into the US constitution.

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If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

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Xanthine

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Icon 1 posted July 17, 2004 11:05      Profile for Xanthine     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
First of all, he's not wanted or arrested because of terrorism. He's in trouble because he broke the travel ban the US placed on Yugoslavia while Milosevic and Co. were trying to kill every Bosnian they could lay hands on (whether or not that kind of diplomatic pressure is at all effective is another thread entirely). Fisher was warned not to go, he chose to go, and then he chose to run. According to the article officials have been looking for him for quite some time. I have little sympathy for him, though I am a bit annoyed at the methods used. They reek of entrapment.

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And it's one, two, three / On the wrong side of the lee / What were you meant for? / What were you meant for?
- The Decemberists

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dragonman97

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Icon 1 posted July 17, 2004 11:14      Profile for dragonman97   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Actually, it's not so much the travel ban as it is the ban on commerce. Let's be mindful of the fact that this chess game scored him $3.5 million. Also the fact that he spat on the US document telling him not to play this game, and that he stated that he is glad 9/1l happened, supporting the terrorists, and exhibiting pure hatred of the US. So, no, he's not a fellow who's welcome at casa del dragon, either. Nor do I support his little game - I'd spit on him if given the chance.

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There are three things you can be sure of in life: Death, taxes, and reading about fake illnesses online...

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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted July 17, 2004 15:01      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Yes, his behaviour has won him few friends (a chess genius acting the primadonna, who'da thunk it?) but in a free society, it's safe to be unpopular.

Locking a guy up for playing chess, it's like something from a Monty Python sketch.

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If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

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Allan
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Icon 1 posted July 17, 2004 16:04      Profile for Allan     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I don't understand why, given his knowledge of the situation he would have been travelling on a US Passport? OK, I know that a new one is something you can't stop by the shop in the mall for but you'd have thought he'd has made more attempt to distance himself from a country he obviously detested so much.
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ASM65816
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Icon 4 posted July 18, 2004 09:52      Profile for ASM65816   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Hypothetical Situation:

Country "M" places Bannanna Embargo on Country "Z" to change Country "Z" behavior. (Leader of Country "Z" really, really loves bannannas.)

As a citizen of Country "M", you defy the trade sanction and sell Bannannas to Country "Z" for a nice $8.00 a pound.

The illegal part is that you violated the sanctions (making them ineffective). It's not a matter of "Selling Bannannas" or charging outrageous prices for fruit.

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Once a proud programmer of Apple II's, he now spends his days and nights in cheap dives fraternizing with exotic dancers....

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Cap'n Vic

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Icon 1 posted July 18, 2004 12:03      Profile for Cap'n Vic     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by ASM65816:
Hypothetical Situation:

Country "M" places Bannanna Embargo on Country "Z" to change Country "Z" behavior. (Leader of Country "Z" really, really loves bannannas.)

As a citizen of Country "M", you defy the trade sanction and sell Bannannas to Country "Z" for a nice $8.00 a pound.

The illegal part is that you violated the sanctions (making them ineffective). It's not a matter of "Selling Bannannas" or charging outrageous prices for fruit.

I am assuming that this is another one of those joke posts you like so much. [Roll Eyes]

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(!) (T) = 8-D

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fanboy_uk

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Icon 1 posted July 19, 2004 00:52      Profile for fanboy_uk   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Hmmm, I love bannnannnas, but prefer appples. [Wink]

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A woman walked into a cocktail bar, took one look at the drinks menu and asked the barman for a Double Entendré.
So he gave her one


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csk

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Icon 12 posted July 19, 2004 00:59      Profile for csk     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Well, I can't tell what you mean, ASM, because of the misspelling. If you meant a bandanna embargo, then that's alright, but everyone likes bananas, so that would be bad

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6 weeks to go!

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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted July 19, 2004 01:49      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by csk:
Well, I can't tell what you mean, ASM, because of the misspelling. If you meant a bandanna embargo, then that's alright, but everyone likes bananas, so that would be bad

Oh, I dunno.
A banana embargo has a peel.

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If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

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GMx

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Icon 1 posted July 19, 2004 06:36      Profile for GMx     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I don't know, I think opinion is split on that.
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fanboy_uk

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Icon 1 posted July 19, 2004 06:42      Profile for fanboy_uk   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Isn't this making a trifle out the original thread? [Razz]

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A woman walked into a cocktail bar, took one look at the drinks menu and asked the barman for a Double Entendré.
So he gave her one


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Cap'n Vic

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Icon 1 posted July 19, 2004 10:43      Profile for Cap'n Vic     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
What is it with you bunch and your puns?

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(!) (T) = 8-D

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Mister Boo

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Icon 12 posted July 19, 2004 11:46      Profile for Mister Boo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Yeah, I guess it's time to split
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drunkennewfiemidget
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Icon 1 posted July 19, 2004 11:50      Profile for drunkennewfiemidget     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
You can't use split again! It's already been used!

Just thought you could be slippery.

Well .. that's enough from me.. Im going to peel on out of here.

... I'm new to this whole pun thing.. these puns are the fruits of my imagination.

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dragonman97

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Icon 1 posted July 19, 2004 12:24      Profile for dragonman97   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Bah, most of you are rookies... [Wink] .

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There are three things you can be sure of in life: Death, taxes, and reading about fake illnesses online...

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Cap'n Vic

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Icon 1 posted July 19, 2004 13:01      Profile for Cap'n Vic     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Why did the banana go out with the prune?
Because he couldn't find a date.

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Teacher: What is Ba + Na2?
Pupil: Banana.

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They're not going to grow bananas any longer.
Really?
Why not?
Because they're long enough already.

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Why is a banana peel on the sidewalk like music?
Because if you don't C sharp you'll B flat.


 -

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(!) (T) = 8-D

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Erbo
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Icon 6 posted July 19, 2004 14:23      Profile for Erbo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Yes, we have no bananas, we have no bananas today!

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See more From The Erbo Files: www.erbosoft.com/blog/

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Ivan
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Icon 1 posted July 19, 2004 15:08      Profile for Ivan   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Banana nana fanana mo nana, fi fo mo nana, banana.....

I give up, I never could grasp that song =(

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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted July 19, 2004 16:45      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
What was beethovens favourite fruit ?

Ba na na na !

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If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

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ASM65816
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Icon 1 posted July 21, 2004 11:48      Profile for ASM65816   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Since I can't tell if people understand, I'll try to summarize some items.

My point was: The U.S. attempted to use diplomatic pressure, but the action of an American citizen lessened or negated the punitive effort.
quote:
"The illegal part is that you violated the sanctions, making them ineffective."

1. Dragonman97 Quote: "...this chess game scored him $3.5 million."
    It would appear that Yugoslavia was making money on the deal, and that the U.S. figured that Milosevic and Co. might change their minds if their pocketbooks got hurt.

2. Xanthine Quote: "whether or not that kind of diplomatic pressure is at all effective is another thread entirely."
    It may or may not be effective, but it is relatively inexpensive. There's three common types of international pressure: a) Ask Nicely, b) Reduce Money Supply, and c) Kill People. While a fourth option is to nothing, consider that Stalin's rule in Russia was essentially unopposed, and as a result, he killed approximately 20 million people.

3. Any Government Which Fails to Enforce Its Laws Undermines Its Own Authority.
    This should be self-explanatory, since lack of law enforcement invites anarchy.

4. The Famous Druid Quote: "... behind bars, for the crime of playing a chess game without permission."
    As Xanthine said, he was arrested because he broke the travel ban, not because he committed a terrorist act. I tried to restate this with the "bannanna" (sic.) remark.

So, what option(s) should a country choose in the effort to influence another nation?

a) Ask Nicely -- Tried it; failed.

b) Use Economic Sanctions -- However, if sanctions are not enforced, they are useless.

c) "Bluff" -- Make threats of punitive actions for named offenses, but change conditions of punishment (or do nothing) when offenses are committed It should be obvious that this destroys one's credibility, thus making any future "Bluff" meaningless, and becoming a "Paper Tiger." This applies to both the opposing nation and citizens of the nation which issues punitive actions.

d) Kill People -- Well, that punitive action was eventually implemented.

e) Wait for Natural Death of Opposing Nation's Leader -- Well, Stalin eventually died, killing millions before he passed away. It's hypocritical to say "we will not tolerate genocide" and then do nothing but say it louder while genocide continues.

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Once a proud programmer of Apple II's, he now spends his days and nights in cheap dives fraternizing with exotic dancers....

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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted July 21, 2004 15:39      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by ASM65816:
3. Any Government Which Fails to Enforce Its Laws Undermines Its Own Authority.
    This should be self-explanatory, since lack of law enforcement invites anarchy.

So how would you define 'freedom' then?

But actually, you've convinced me, sanction busters should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law, even if their 'crime' was years ago.

Shall we start with Dick Cheney?
(Sanctions against Iran? They don't apply to Halliburton !)

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If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

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Xanthine

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Icon 1 posted July 21, 2004 19:42      Profile for Xanthine     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I'll be honest: I'm not a big fan of economic sanctions alone. They were not effective in Iraq; they were not effective in Yugoslavia. Milosevic and his cronies actually PROFITTED from the UN sanctions. The ordinary people suffered of course - I have a friend from Belgrade who has stories about buying basic things like gasoline on the black market. This same friend has also told me that when the people went out and demonstrated against Milosevic because they'd had enough if his bullshit the US ambassador told Milosevic's governemnt not to worry, they still had US support. Fortunately, my friend knows I was in HS at the time and wasn't expecting any answers from me. He's not a big fan of US foreign policy, nor is he a big fan of Milosevic.

I personally go for option 5: impose sanctions and then help organize the opposition party. A corrupt government doesn't care if the people it's raping are hurting. However, a corrupt government does care whether or not it remains in power.

Fisher was warned. There is no statute of limitations on his crime. He's been on the run for 12 years. He made his choice and he gets to pay the price.

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And it's one, two, three / On the wrong side of the lee / What were you meant for? / What were you meant for?
- The Decemberists

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