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» The Geek Culture Forums   » Techno-Talking   » Math-a-holics and Code Junkies   » requesting programming advise that doesn't start with , "its not worth it".

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Author Topic: requesting programming advise that doesn't start with , "its not worth it".
Ashitaka

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Icon 10 posted December 23, 2010 06:09      Profile for Ashitaka     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
requesting programming advise that doesn't start with , "its not worth it".

So I was over at wired and somhow stumbled over to webmonkey , and am now, more than ever, wanting to write myself a recipe computer program that manages my recipies and can list ingredients i need to buy after choosing recipes.

The problem is, I wrote a few programs in Apple Logo when I was young, then a few in Basic, and then I was required to take a C programming class in college, but since then I have not programmed.

Perl looks fun, and I think I get it, but I admit I don't know what would be required for writting a perl programm for the server side of a web interface that I would like to be the user side of my recipe programm.

I admit this is probably a year long project I am getting myself into.

Does anyone have any advice on a opensource programm to use for running perl as a web application?

-Ash [Smile]

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"If they're not gonna make a distinction between Muslims and violent extremists, then why should I take the time to distinguish between decent, fearful white people and racists?"

-Assif Mandvi

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TheMoMan
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Icon 1 posted December 23, 2010 06:37      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
____ Ash, me thinks you should also be able to generate a shopping list, for replenishment of supplies as used.

____ Now are you going to open source this tool or charge us a hind quarter to use?

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If it don't glow it ain't Ham Radio

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Ashitaka

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Icon 1 posted December 23, 2010 06:45      Profile for Ashitaka     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by TheMoMan:
____ Ash, me thinks you should also be able to generate a shopping list, for replenishment of supplies as used.

____ Now are you going to open source this tool or charge us a hind quarter to use?

if it doesn't suck, which it probably will, open source.

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"If they're not gonna make a distinction between Muslims and violent extremists, then why should I take the time to distinguish between decent, fearful white people and racists?"

-Assif Mandvi

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TheMoMan
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Icon 1 posted December 23, 2010 06:50      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
____ I played with writing code, for a dying platform years ago it was satisfying and frustrating at the same time, good luck and above all have fun.

____ Hint if you are also making a list that tells you where you put sections of code, do not use "RESEQUENCE" your notes become useless.

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If it don't glow it ain't Ham Radio

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dragonman97

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Icon 1 posted December 23, 2010 09:55      Profile for dragonman97   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
An open-source program to run an open-source programming language? Like Perl itself?

Methinks you're referring to Apache, which comes standard on pretty much every Linux distro, and on Mac OS X. It also exists for Windows. (And there's a really easy thing called xampp, though it might have security concerns if used on the Interwebs.)

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There are three things you can be sure of in life: Death, taxes, and reading about fake illnesses online...

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quantumfluff
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Icon 1 posted December 23, 2010 10:12      Profile for quantumfluff     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Short answer:
Python hosted on Google AppEngine is the right choice.

Longer answer:
Unless you have a compelling business reason, you don't want to run your own web server(s). It's a hassle that you simply don't need to have when there are free hosting services available. AppEngine provides free hosting, a back end data store, and a 24/7 deployment environment so that you never have to do a server config.

Once that choice is made, you must write in Java or Python. That's a no brainer. There is no reason to write in Java unless you have to, so Python is the winner. In your particular case, Python is much closer to Perl in spirit than Java. If you are going to learn a language, Python would be a clear win over Perl anyway.

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Ashitaka

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Icon 1 posted December 23, 2010 12:52      Profile for Ashitaka     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
thanks for the advice qf, Even though I read through that perl tutorial and thought, hey that is all easy, I can do that, I think I will use googleapp engine.

we'll see how far I get with learning some python over this holidy beak, I have a few days ot home with nothing to do.

and look, webmonky also has a python tutorial.

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"If they're not gonna make a distinction between Muslims and violent extremists, then why should I take the time to distinguish between decent, fearful white people and racists?"

-Assif Mandvi

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Ugh, MightyClub
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Icon 1 posted December 23, 2010 19:55      Profile for Ugh, MightyClub     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I only dabbled in Python long enough to be annoyed by the fact that indent level matters. I'm pretty anal about formatting, and I don't like being told by the compiler how many spaces I'm allowed to use.

That said, a couple of my colleagues swear up and down by Python, and I'll admit it seemed like you could whip out working code extremely fast with it. I'm sure I could adjust my indent OCD to work with it if I gave it some time [Roll Eyes]

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Ugh!

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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted December 23, 2010 20:43      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Ugh, MightyClub:
I only dabbled in Python long enough to be annoyed by the fact that indent level matters. I'm pretty anal about formatting, and I don't like being told by the compiler how many spaces I'm allowed to use.

But you're not.

Python doesn't dictate "how many spaces you're allowed to use" - it just insists that all statements at the same logical level be indented at the same textual level.

SO, you can indent using tab, 2 spaces, 3 spaces, 10 spaces if you like, as long as you use the same indentation for all statements in the block.

What can be a pain is in a team environment where one troublemaker doesn't have his editor set to the agreed default, for example, everyone else uses TABs for indenting, and one scumbag uses 4 spaces.

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If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

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MacManKrisK

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Icon 1 posted December 23, 2010 21:58      Profile for MacManKrisK     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I like python's indent-oriented approach. It reminds me of the first ever language I learned, HyperTalk. Of course, HyperTalk automatically indented everything for you, which was cool. If you made an "if" statement, everything under it got automatically indented until you made an "end if" It made it really easy to debug.

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"Buy low, sell high
get rich and you still die"


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quantumfluff
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Icon 1 posted December 23, 2010 22:35      Profile for quantumfluff     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by The Famous Druid:
What can be a pain is in a team environment where one troublemaker doesn't have his editor set to the agreed default, for example, everyone else uses TABs for indenting, and one scumbag uses 4 spaces.

In my youth I used tabs for indenting. I changed my mind - firmly. The only acceptable use is spaces only, with some sort of standard. When you use tabs, you always end up with someone who decides to set there editor so that tab is 4 spaces and then formats code for that. It breaks it for everyone else. Strictly using spaces prevents that from happening.

BTW. I should add that I also was wary of Python's scoping through indentation. It took me about one afternoon to get through it, because I had 30 years of experience indenting very strictly simply so I could read my own code. The hardest thing was to leave semi-colons off lines. [Smile]

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Ashitaka

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Icon 14 posted December 24, 2010 00:49      Profile for Ashitaka     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I was worried after i read that python tutorial because the perl tutorial had it in how to integrate the perl in to HTMl pages using forms. THe only problem being I had no server.

the python tutorial had nothing using the python with HTML.

butnow i am working my way through the google app engine tutorial and it seems to have the information I want.

So, those of you who program, should I buy a book, or are the free sources on the internet ( and I have found alot) more than enough information for writting a simple program as a hobby.

--------------------
"If they're not gonna make a distinction between Muslims and violent extremists, then why should I take the time to distinguish between decent, fearful white people and racists?"

-Assif Mandvi

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Stereo

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Icon 1 posted December 24, 2010 07:12      Profile for Stereo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Ashitaka:
So, those of you who program, should I buy a book, or are the free sources on the internet ( and I have found alot) more than enough information for writting a simple program as a hobby.

The way I do it, I learn the language's grammar on the web, and buy a reference book (I like the "In a Nutshell" ones) that describes the types and most important libraries, with arguments, return type, and pitfalls. Then when I am stuck on something, I head back to the Internet.

(And when you talk recipes, I hear database. I hope you have one; it is much easier to learn to query a database than read from flat files, load into memory, and do the comparisons programmatically.)

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Ashitaka

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Icon 1 posted December 24, 2010 08:14      Profile for Ashitaka     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Stereo:
quote:
Originally posted by Ashitaka:
So, those of you who program, should I buy a book, or are the free sources on the internet ( and I have found alot) more than enough information for writting a simple program as a hobby.

The way I do it, I learn the language's grammar on the web, and buy a reference book (I like the "In a Nutshell" ones) that describes the types and most important libraries, with arguments, return type, and pitfalls. Then when I am stuck on something, I head back to the Internet.

(And when you talk recipes, I hear database. I hope you have one; it is much easier to learn to query a database than read from flat files, load into memory, and do the comparisons programmatically.)

The perl tutorial had showed how to search a flat file, SO I guess I was planning to use a flat file. BUt at the moment I have neither, SO I will want my program not only to sort and find my recipies, but also to take recipies as input into my database ( or flat file).

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"If they're not gonna make a distinction between Muslims and violent extremists, then why should I take the time to distinguish between decent, fearful white people and racists?"

-Assif Mandvi

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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted December 24, 2010 13:58      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by quantumfluff:
In my youth I used tabs for indenting. I changed my mind - firmly. The only acceptable use is spaces only, with some sort of standard. When you use tabs, you always end up with someone who decides to set there editor so that tab is 4 spaces and then formats code for that. It breaks it for everyone else. Strictly using spaces prevents that from happening.

Then you get one arsehole who sets his editor to use tabs...

It's not **which standard** you use that matters, the important thing is **getting everyone to use it**.

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If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

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GrumpySteen

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Icon 1 posted December 24, 2010 14:04      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
The Famous Druid wrote:
It's not **which standard** you use that matters, the important thing is **getting everyone to use it**.

When you have problems with someone not following the adopted standard, even the most stubborn programmers will generally respond to this.


And so this post isn't a total waste, I'll mention that Python has a database API that allows fairly easy access to a variety of database backends. Rolling your own database is fine if you have the skill or are trying to learn database programming, but it's much easier for a beginner to use an off-the-shelf solution even if it's not the most efficient solution.

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