homeGeek CultureWebstoreeCards!Forums!Joy of Tech!AY2K!webcam

The Geek Culture Forums


Post New Topic  New Poll  Post A Reply
my profile | directory login | | search | faq | forum home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» The Geek Culture Forums   » Other Geeky Stuff   » Suggestion Box!   » Discussion in light of recent rants

 - UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!    
Author Topic: Discussion in light of recent rants
Sxeptomaniac

Member # 3698

Member Rated:
4
Icon 3 posted April 17, 2007 14:15      Profile for Sxeptomaniac   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
We've had a lot of negative stuff flying around on this thread, from people who feel that newbies are consistently treated badly around here. Unfortunately, I fear a lot of it has been too vague to be useful, and has instead just further divided the community. I want to discuss specific issues, rather than hear rants, so I'm starting this thread for that purpose.

(I know some people here don't like dredging up past unpleasantness, and others just hate conflict in general. I just believe that ignoring a problem except when several people let loose in rants is counter-productive. I think we've got a better chance of truly moving past it if we can discuss exactly what the problems are. This might not work, but I don't think it can really hurt at this point.)

First, some ground rules:
  • Avoid personal attacks (of course): I want to discuss behavior, not the persons. Don't present problem behavior as if anyone who's ever done it is vicious and mean-spirited, either. If you absolutely need to, discuss how it appears to you.
  • Don't harp on issues or people: We don't need to pile on one issue, person, or group of people: it only promotes a defensive reaction, which won't help.
  • Start with the basics: Lets not start off with long lists of every gripe you've ever run up against. Pick one or two, and give everyone a chance to think about it and discuss it, if they wish.
  • Disagreement is acceptable: Don't squelch it, but also don't use disagreement as an excuse for veiled attacks.
  • Allow for human nature: Don't expect perfection. If you can't handle people occasionally being gruff or screwing up at times, you're probably on the wrong planet. [Wink]

So, I'll risk starting this off:
I would like to recommend that, in the future, we not demand, or even ask, anyone to leave the forums. When tempers run hot, it can be easy to do, but I think it is ultimately not helpful. (Let me give another reassurance that I don't think anyone who has done this is necessarily a bad person. In fact, I know at least one who did is one of my favorite people here. I just think we shouldn't do it any more.)

I give permission for anyone to point out any of my posts if they want to use them as examples in this thread.

--------------------
Let's pray that the human race never escapes from Earth to spread its iniquity elsewhere. - C. S. Lewis

Posts: 1590 | From: Fresno, CA | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged
Shadow
Assimilated
Member # 1558

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted April 17, 2007 15:11      Profile for Shadow     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I think another thing we can do is ask for clarification before we flame. (Note: This is not aimed at anyone.) Simple misunderstandings can get pretty out of control when our default is set to flame.

For my part, I apologize for flaming without asking for clarification about what people really mean.

Sxeptomaniac, I think this is a great idea. [thumbsup] Thank you for starting this discussion up! The GC is a great place with a lot of cool people and I just want those who come here to feel welcome.

--------------------
I do but keep the peace: put up thy sword,
Or manage it to part these men with me. - Benvolio (Romeo & Juliet)

Posts: 415 | From: /dev/geek/ | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Just_Jess_B

Solid Nitrozanium SuperFan!
Member # 2161

Icon 1 posted April 17, 2007 20:09      Profile for Just_Jess_B   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
This forum is about ideas. Challenging ideas is good, because it leads to intellectual discourse. Sometimes the words we choose lead to emotions running hot, and discourse becomes enmity. Sometimes it's unintended; sometimes it's intended.

Perhaps the basic Geek Culture etiquette should be permanently posted in a very visible place on the forum board? There are many unsaid things about our forum's etiquette (the delicate nuances). As an intellectual community, there seem to be a few particular unspoken rules specific to this particular venue.

That said, I am pleased that GC has avoided most of the negatives of other forum boards. Correction is gentler than in other forum boards. Then again, when we become caustic, the acerbic critiques burn hot, slow, and deep. The hardest thing is to translate the right emotion over an emotionless medium. The same sentence means different things to different people, and writing the wrong thing can set a person off.

I've heard the arguments from all sides, and there are bad behaviors all over -- including my own for overreacting to something that honestly didn't involve me. For that, I am sorry. For bringing it to people's attention? I am not.

--------------------
Opinion is not Truth; that is why each has its own definition. Illiteracy sucks.

Posts: 1370 | From: Whaddya mean, Arizona? | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
Stereo

Solid Nitrozanium SuperFan!
Member # 748

Member Rated:
5
Icon 1 posted April 18, 2007 08:24      Profile for Stereo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
You see, Jess, posting "official" rules and etiquette was discussed, but I understood the prevailing opinion to be that none were absolute, and all could take some bending without breaking. I must say I tried to post a general list, but took it off because I realised how futile it was. Just as a sentence can be read differently by different people, what is deemed acceptable changes from person to person.

Which leads me to what annoys me most: it's not one sigle bad behaviour, but when the bad behaviour is constant. (From a single person or different ones - think about the "do my homework for me" serie that lead to each new request to be treated worse than the previous ones.)

For example, some necroposting is to be expected within the first days of arrival of a new member, and that's kinda OK for me. Sometimes, there can even be a new perspective on an old thread. It's when it becomes a series of "lol", "couldn't have said better" or just repeating something that was said earlier, then it grates on my nerves. Raising a thread from its grave should be done for serious reasons, otherwise, it looks like a way to quickly increase one's post count. And then suspicion of forum spamming arises.

So to me, any GC code of conduit shouldn't go any further than: be polite (if you can), be helpful (when you can), avoid breaking the peace (as much as you can), and make us enjoy your posts (if we can). But then, what's the point of posting that? (And I know I break the third one every other year or so. I just hope that I am polite enough, helpful enough, and people enjoy my other posts enough to forgive my occasional outbursts.)

--------------------
Eppur, si muove!

Galileo Galilei

Posts: 2289 | From: Gatineau, Quebec, Canada | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
GameMaster
BlabberMouth, a Blabber Odyssey
Member # 1173

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted April 18, 2007 19:06      Profile for GameMaster   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
My take... No one forces you to read anything, no one presses the reply button but you. If you think someone is a Troll, nudge them and see if they change.

If they don't, ignore them. If they really are trolls, they want attention, and to deny them it, they will leave. If they aren't, the rest of the board will continue to talk to them and you'll happily go on ignoring their presence.

I had a nice post in the old days about "Don't Feed The Trolls" and after I got a lot of "that's a good idea" responces, and following it I've seen a great many people driven out by mob mentality all baring torches and crying "burn the troll." I've been on the recieving end of the mob here also, and I still come back every now and again because a lot of the board members are nice people... They get carried away every now and again.

So, the only advice I have isn't toward the "noobs", "newbies", "newbs" or people being called trolls... It's toward the mob... DFTT - "Don't Feed The Trolls."

--------------------
My Site

Posts: 3038 | From: State of insanity | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
ScholasticSpastic
Highlie
Member # 6919

Member Rated:
5
Icon 1 posted April 19, 2007 12:16      Profile for ScholasticSpastic     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I really like the freedom of expression that is possible on this forum. The idea of increasing the number of rules is upsetting to me. I nominate myself the *official friendly-all-the-time poster* and swear to offer personal support to every poster I see being singled out and to always side with the underdog. I can start after May 4th (the end of finals week). Just PM me if you see anyone being picked on and I'll be their buddy. I'm already aware that Boo needs more friends and will make an effort to find ways to affirm her opinions without being patronizing in an un-funny way from now on. Steen is doing a great job so far on that front, though: Yay Steen!!!

I can't offer any unconditional love for anyone on threads of a more political nature. Politics is not about love and I'll not try to pervert it so that it is. I have to argue somewhere !

--------------------
"As in repeating a well-known song, so in instincts, one action follows another by a sort of rhythm; if a person be interrupted in a song, or in repeating anything by rote, he is generally forced to go back to recover the habitual train of thought..." (Darwin, The Origin of Species)

Posts: 540 | From: Vernal, UT | Registered: Jan 2007  |  IP: Logged
Sxeptomaniac

Member # 3698

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted April 19, 2007 13:50      Profile for Sxeptomaniac   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by GameMaster:
So, the only advice I have isn't toward the "noobs", "newbies", "newbs" or people being called trolls... It's toward the mob... DFTT - "Don't Feed The Trolls."

While I still use that advice on occasion, I've found "Don't feed the trolls" not as helpful in a large number of cases these days. Many times there may be disagreement whether a person can really be considered a troll, and there always seem to be a few who decide they can't ignore the comments. This was an interesting essay on the subject.

I would pick one thing out of your comments, and say that I agree we should be more careful about mob tendencies, and avoid piling on attacks when a new person is being obnoxious.

quote:
Originally posted by ScholasticSpastic:
I really like the freedom of expression that is possible on this forum. The idea of increasing the number of rules is upsetting to me. I nominate myself the *official friendly-all-the-time poster* and swear to offer personal support to every poster I see being singled out and to always side with the underdog. I can start after May 4th (the end of finals week). Just PM me if you see anyone being picked on and I'll be their buddy.

Where would you draw the line on this though? What exactly constitutes being picked on? Would someone simply here to stir up conflict, like Jim in the Forest, qualify? If not, where do you draw the line? Wouldn't some consider it more an act of pity than friendship?

I also don't think we need more rules, but I would like to examine our current practices and find out what exactly people have a problem with. However, I'm not fond of the idea of trying to make everyone welcome no matter what, as I believe all-inclusive openness has the potential to destroy communities when people abuse it.

--------------------
Let's pray that the human race never escapes from Earth to spread its iniquity elsewhere. - C. S. Lewis

Posts: 1590 | From: Fresno, CA | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged
garlicguy

Member # 3166

Member Rated:
5
Icon 1 posted April 19, 2007 16:10      Profile for garlicguy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I joined GC to observe wave motion in an open-ended tank...

Fascinating, really.

 -

--------------------
I don't know what I was thinking... it seemed like a good idea at the time.

Posts: 3752 | From: Pluto, no matter what you call it, is still my home. | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
Alan!
Geek
Member # 1261

Icon 1 posted April 19, 2007 20:03      Profile for Alan!     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I just farted.

--------------------
Alan!

Two rabbis, a priest, and an awkward silence after there's no intelligible punch line to this joke, walk into a bar.

Posts: 219 | From: Perth, Western Australia | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
garlicguy

Member # 3166

Member Rated:
5
Icon 1 posted April 20, 2007 08:19      Profile for garlicguy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Alan!:
I just farted.

Tiny bubbles?
Posts: 3752 | From: Pluto, no matter what you call it, is still my home. | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
Cap'n Vic

Member # 1477

Icon 1 posted April 20, 2007 08:47      Profile for Cap'n Vic     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Silent, but deadly.

--------------------
(!) (T) = 8-D

Posts: 5471 | From: One of the drones from sector 7G | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
garlicguy

Member # 3166

Member Rated:
5
Icon 1 posted April 20, 2007 10:23      Profile for garlicguy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
No sh*t, Cap'n.

--------------------
I don't know what I was thinking... it seemed like a good idea at the time.

Posts: 3752 | From: Pluto, no matter what you call it, is still my home. | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
Ugh, MightyClub
BlabberMouth, the Next Generation
Member # 3112

Member Rated:
5
Icon 1 posted April 20, 2007 10:29      Profile for Ugh, MightyClub     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
The direction this thread has taken really stinks.

--------------------
Ugh!

Posts: 1742 | From: Ithaca, NY | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
GrumpySteen

Solid Nitrozanium SuperFan
Member # 170

Icon 9 posted April 20, 2007 10:47      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
You know... after months of petty arguments breaking out in topics all over the forum, all the disagreements seem to have finally been contained to two topics which are very easy to ignore.

I'm surprised at the number of you that think it's a good idea to try and ruin that with fart jokes. Maybe you're right, though... we can go with fart jokes here and let the arguing spill all over the forums again. [Roll Eyes]

--------------------
Worst. Celibate. Ever.

Posts: 6364 | From: Tennessee | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged
garlicguy

Member # 3166

Member Rated:
5
Icon 1 posted April 20, 2007 11:06      Profile for garlicguy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Maybe it is just a sign that things are lightening up around here... or that not everyone thinks the sky is falling... or that this community includes a bunch of anesthesiologists (professional gas-passers)?

But hey, if there's more to say on the orginal thread, go ahead and take it back. Go ahead... I dare ya... (ala Robert Conrad - before Chuck Norris kicked his silly arse). [Razz]

PS to Snaggy: Could you kindly provide us with a raspberry smilie?

--------------------
I don't know what I was thinking... it seemed like a good idea at the time.

Posts: 3752 | From: Pluto, no matter what you call it, is still my home. | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
The Famous Druid

Gold Hearted SuperFan!
Member # 1769

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted April 20, 2007 15:15      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Steen:
I'm surprised at the number of you that think it's a good idea to try and ruin that with fart jokes.

Don't fret Steen, there's methane in our madness.

--------------------
If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

Posts: 10680 | From: Melbourne, Australia | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
Sxeptomaniac

Member # 3698

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted April 20, 2007 15:55      Profile for Sxeptomaniac   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Steen:
You know... after months of petty arguments breaking out in topics all over the forum, all the disagreements seem to have finally been contained to two topics which are very easy to ignore.

I'm surprised at the number of you that think it's a good idea to try and ruin that with fart jokes. Maybe you're right, though... we can go with fart jokes here and let the arguing spill all over the forums again. [Roll Eyes]

*shrug* I knew that the odds were against the original topic of this thread lasting long.

--------------------
Let's pray that the human race never escapes from Earth to spread its iniquity elsewhere. - C. S. Lewis

Posts: 1590 | From: Fresno, CA | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged
Just_Jess_B

Solid Nitrozanium SuperFan!
Member # 2161

Icon 1 posted April 20, 2007 17:28      Profile for Just_Jess_B   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Okay, in light of recent rants (getting back to the topic and away from "Gay, Dick and Fart Jokes" *TM*), I've only heard people mimsy about in regards to actual changes we can request here.

I'm seeing, however, that there are a generous proportion of people who "color outside the lines" because they always have. Yes, I will hop on a pun thread if WS is on, simply because I'm a follower and generally unoriginal. [Wink] I do, however, stay out of forum threads which in no way involve me (most often cars, coding, and computers) because I have nothing to add. When I think I do have something helpful (or at least emotionally supportive), I'll add it.

I guess there is no answer, sad-to-say. Happily, however, people tend toward trying to make people laugh here. This, in my mind, is good, because levity is necessary, or else we end up with long arguments over nothing much.

Some people will troll. I suppose if it's a problem, the only thing to do is send a PM to Snaggy with at least ten links to comment where the person has shown to have "trolled". Then Snaggy can put in the boot or not.

I'm seeing I have to apologize for my "Geek Culture Island" rant. I wanted to point out that too much was degrading into chasing down, then quoting, then insulting people. The bandying of nasties follows, and everyone goes home while people actually interested in a thread get lost. The problem is that they basically smear threads with what amounts to graffiti, so people who want to read the thread can't.

I see that no one here can make peace either with humor or outrage. Certain people will not only bicker on opinion but snap at one another. Hell, there's no guarantee that the person arguing with the other isn't the same person (we've seen that before . . .)!

Conflict won't be resolved, and I think that the humor this thread (and many others) has petered out to is because we have too many people ready to "curse the darkness but refuse to light a candle". I made a suggestion; it was ignored and/or rejected out of hand. That's all I could do, because I have no power.

I'm so sorry that it's like this. The only positive is that trolls get bored. The negative is that by the time they do, the good people leave.

--------------------
Opinion is not Truth; that is why each has its own definition. Illiteracy sucks.

Posts: 1370 | From: Whaddya mean, Arizona? | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
Cap'n Vic

Member # 1477

Icon 1 posted April 20, 2007 22:32      Profile for Cap'n Vic     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Whatev.

Don't get your knickers in a knot. Breathe deeply, everything is gonna be fine, just fine.

People will come and go like the turning tide, a few get hung up on barnacles, others forced away by the rip tide.....all is beyond out control......man.


/reluctantly passing the cosmic bong after a looooooong Bogart.

Posts: 5471 | From: One of the drones from sector 7G | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
ScholasticSpastic
Highlie
Member # 6919

Member Rated:
5
Icon 1 posted April 20, 2007 23:50      Profile for ScholasticSpastic     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Sxeptomaniac, I felt pretty safe offering to be friendly to whoever gets picked on because I haven't found anyone here with whom I disagree 100% of the time. I didn't offer to stick up for anyone, I just offered to be consistently nice. No skin off my nose, really, as it's my default behavior. I'd also like to point out that people who emphasize their own niceness are assholes.

Am not.

Are so.

Shut up you stupid troll.

--------------------
"As in repeating a well-known song, so in instincts, one action follows another by a sort of rhythm; if a person be interrupted in a song, or in repeating anything by rote, he is generally forced to go back to recover the habitual train of thought..." (Darwin, The Origin of Species)

Posts: 540 | From: Vernal, UT | Registered: Jan 2007  |  IP: Logged
stevenback7
SuperBlabberMouth!
Member # 5114

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted April 21, 2007 06:14      Profile for stevenback7   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
now first i would like to say that after about 2 + weeks i am finally seeing some posts i like to read and it looks like everything is going back to normal.

Now in my general view I don't believe we should post rules on this forum on how to act or anything because I like how different people have different ways of handeling a problem and I like seeing how other people react. But i do think we should put a warning out to all new members wishing to join this forum that if you necro-post, make 10 topics in a day, start fights, etc that you will more then likely be flamed by the forum regulars.

I remember about a year ago when I first came to this forum - my first question was how to get a hold of a copy of flash and following topics where as well concering homework and other things. At which point for all topics I got my fair share of criticism from everyone. But over time i learned how the forums worked and what i should and shouldn't say in order to keep on the good side of things.

The thing about me is that I am a intelligent person and can overcome the criticism but I have seen several dozen people come here and necro post or post 10 topics in an hour or something else which ticks of most of us. But when they recieve there fair share of criticism they have no idea that this is expected and become aggresive and eventually storm of and leave. so I believe a short intro for all new members will help there progress of being a noob and becoming a member a whole lot quicker and less painfull.


last I would like to comment on the type of posts made and would like to ask what you guys like to read. Because I know I dislike reading most rants about gf's and bf's and how to deal with personal issue's. just because I have enough drama in my life and honestly most of the time the people posting this stuff can handle the situation themselves without going to GC. I say most of the time I dislike reading this because i will never turn down a "Oh my God why was i so stupid" topic because i always am amused seeing other peoples suffering. As well i hate topics which say "isn't this link so funny - you should check it out" because I don't have enought time to read all these pages when half aren't even worth my time.


just my two cents

--------------------
Comic Book Guy: There is no emoticon for what i'm feeling.

Posts: 1199 | From: Canada eh? | Registered: May 2006  |  IP: Logged
garlicguy

Member # 3166

Member Rated:
5
Icon 1 posted April 21, 2007 09:28      Profile for garlicguy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by ScholasticSpastic:
I'd also like to point out that people who emphasize their own niceness are assholes.

Am not.

Are so.

That should be, "Are too", normally written as "R2" because of all the flaming geeks around here and their terminal obsession with Star Wars...

So, R2, thanks for being so nice.
[Big Grin]

--------------------
I don't know what I was thinking... it seemed like a good idea at the time.

Posts: 3752 | From: Pluto, no matter what you call it, is still my home. | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
Ugh, MightyClub
BlabberMouth, the Next Generation
Member # 3112

Member Rated:
5
Icon 1 posted April 22, 2007 07:49      Profile for Ugh, MightyClub     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by garlicguy:
... their terminal obsession with Star Wars...

My terminal is not obsessed with Star Wars!!

Oh, dear, I seem to have misinterpreted the semantics of that comment. Never mind. [blush]

--------------------
Ugh!

Posts: 1742 | From: Ithaca, NY | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged


All times are Eastern Time  
Post New Topic  New Poll  Post A Reply Close Topic    Move Topic    Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:

Contact Us | Geek Culture Home Page

2015 Geek Culture

Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classicTM 6.4.0



homeGeek CultureWebstoreeCards!Forums!Joy of Tech!AY2K!webcam