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Author Topic: Use phpBB
webmacster87
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Icon 1 posted March 29, 2006 07:15      Profile for webmacster87   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
My suggestion would be that you guys use phpBB because it's a lot faster, a bit more robust, and PHP is teh uber sexy programming language > Perl. [Big Grin]

Anyway, just my $0.02. [Wink]

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dragonman97

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Icon 1 posted March 29, 2006 07:33      Profile for dragonman97   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
STFU, please.

Have you noticed that phpBB has yet another vulnerability, and has been the downfall of many website?

PHP is a very poorly designed 'language.'

Please go away.

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drunkennewfiemidget
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Icon 1 posted March 29, 2006 08:39      Profile for drunkennewfiemidget     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
php > perl?

OK, seriously. Lay off the crack. It's starting to get to your brain.

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GameMaster
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Icon 1 posted March 29, 2006 09:26      Profile for GameMaster   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by dragonman97:
STFU, please.

Have you noticed that phpBB has yet another vulnerability, and has been the downfall of many website?

PHP is a very poorly designed 'language.'

Please go away.

<evil>
No more so that Perl...

Use a real language, write all scripted websites in LISP.
</evil>

In all seriousness. PHP is a fun language...

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drunkennewfiemidget
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Icon 1 posted March 29, 2006 09:36      Profile for drunkennewfiemidget     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by GameMaster:
<evil>
No more so that Perl...

Use a real language, write all scripted websites in LISP.
</evil>

All flamewars aside, at least perl can get their fscking subroutine naming convention straight:

strncasecmp vs substr_compare.

And the ambiguity due to the lack of requirement of variable declaration is just painful.

code:
use strict;
use warnings;

quote:


In all seriousness. PHP is a fun language...

That's exactly what it is: fun.
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dragonman97

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Icon 1 posted March 29, 2006 10:36      Profile for dragonman97   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Sorry, I couldn't bear to try and do nested quotes on this.

newf:
All flamewars aside, at least perl can get their fscking subroutine naming convention straight:
strncasecmp vs substr_compare.

That's just because PHP was so immaturely written that they feel the need to make their own names for things.
PHP is a piss-poor adaptation of Perl for the Web. Who the fsck includes phonetic string comparison operations in the core language?! That kind of thing belongs in a library. Variable scoping is also severely out of whack.

Another case in point:
Perl's 'split' becomes PHP's 'explode.'

newf:
And the ambiguity due to the lack of requirement of variable declaration is just painful.

Actually, it's also an opportunity for security holes, and worse yet, it's a b*tch to debug. Letting undeclared (read: nonexistant) variables return 0 like they exist is a recipe for disaster.

GM: In all seriousness. PHP is a fun language...
newf: That's exactly what it is: fun.

Me: Personally, Perl put the fun back into programming for me. TMTOWTDI and 'Perl makes easy things easy, and hard things possible' are very true statements about Perl, and reasons why I really love the language.

PHP is not the worst thing out there... but the biggest problem I see with it is that it allows for 'cookie cutter' code, with a large body of users who don't really know what they're doing with it. It's like giving someone a jackhammer with an 'easy' button on it. This results in very poor end products, that have a high tendency to get hacked/exploited/you-name-it.

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nerdwithnofriends
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Icon 1 posted March 29, 2006 14:56      Profile for nerdwithnofriends     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I'm inclined to agree with newf and dragonman. Much as I dislike using perl for most jobs (read: anything other than really mundane text processing), it is still a better choice than PHP. Isn't PHP the language that was invented by a guy with 'no formal programming education'? I think that comes out in the language.

I don't have a problem with implicitly declared variables; hell, python ist meine lieblingscomputersprache, so I can't complain about undeclared variables.

The fact that perl has been around forever and that the CPAN is constantly being updated with code written by good programmers, and not 'cookie cutter' code, makes perl a far more stable and secure choice than php.

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GameMaster
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Icon 1 posted March 29, 2006 18:33      Profile for GameMaster   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Each has their place. PHP wasn't originally a language, it was a cheap Hypertext Perprocessor (which is where PHP got it's name I believe)... Since, it's been added to by a lot of people; some additions good -- other not so much.

It's a simple language to pick up, and secure for doing EASY things. That said, doing hard things with an "EASY button" is bound to be a bad thing no matter the language.

Perl has been arround longer, and has several benifits. It's better defined, it's more secure and it's has a lot of libraries out there.

That said, I perfer PHP b/c I can write code that appears closer to C/C++/JAVA. I'm a C++/Java monkey for everything other than the web (although I'm getting more and more tempted to write a BBS in C++) because it's what I learned first and know best.

Perl, I've only played with and I don't know it as well. If I had to write in it, I could; but it feels backward, and it'd be a lot harder for me to come back to it later.

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quantumfluff
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Icon 12 posted March 29, 2006 19:07      Profile for quantumfluff     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Tcl on aolserver. The only way to write web pages!
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mephisto

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Icon 1 posted March 30, 2006 00:39      Profile for mephisto     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Or .net and oracle 10g. for webservices. Seem to work fine.
Honestly, I use php, perl and even ruby. But I must honestly say that had I a chance to write code on the web (to run interfaces), it would be php even though i use perl for all my system utility scripts. But .net for webservices [Smile] . screw java.
*me dons flame retardent suit and sits down [Smile]

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webmacster87
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Icon 1 posted March 30, 2006 06:36      Profile for webmacster87   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
/me shuts up

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drunkennewfiemidget
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Icon 1 posted March 30, 2006 06:43      Profile for drunkennewfiemidget     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by GameMaster:

That said, I perfer PHP b/c I can write code that appears closer to C/C++/JAVA. I'm a C++/Java monkey for everything other than the web (although I'm getting more and more tempted to write a BBS in C++) because it's what I learned first and know best.

This confuses me -- C/C++/Java require variable declarations. PHP does not.

C/C++/JAVA have a sane subroutine definition structure (mostly). PHP does not.

PHP's object oriented code is painful. Perl's is sexy, (externally, I realise perl's OO internally is a mess.)

C++/Java are based mainly on OO methodologies.

What similarities to C/C++/Java do you see in PHP?

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webmacster87
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Icon 1 posted March 31, 2006 06:25      Profile for webmacster87   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
PHP doesn't require variable declarations, true, but it's still a good idea to declare your variables. For example, if you're going to run a function that returns an array, it's a good idea to do
code:
$var = array();

beforehand so that $var is declared.

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drunkennewfiemidget
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Icon 1 posted March 31, 2006 06:53      Profile for drunkennewfiemidget     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by webmacster87:
PHP doesn't require variable declarations, true, but it's still a good idea to declare your variables. For example, if you're going to run a function that returns an array, it's a good idea to do
code:
$var = array();

beforehand so that $var is declared.
That is completely irrelevant. The fact of the matter remains that PHP does not require it, so you could spend hours and hours and hours trying to find a bug just because you misspelled a variable name.
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Jace Raven

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Icon 1 posted March 31, 2006 07:10      Profile for Jace Raven         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by drunkennewfiemidget:
quote:
Originally posted by webmacster87:
PHP doesn't require variable declarations, true, but it's still a good idea to declare your variables. For example, if you're going to run a function that returns an array, it's a good idea to do
code:
$var = array();

beforehand so that $var is declared.
That is completely irrelevant. The fact of the matter remains that PHP does not require it, so you could spend hours and hours and hours trying to find a bug just because you misspelled a variable name.
You could spend hours and hours in any language looking for a bug just because you misspelled something though. Though, most debuggers will tell you what the problem is. Dont think this is true with php. Dont know, dont use it, dont care to use it.
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Metasquares
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Icon 1 posted March 31, 2006 08:33      Profile for Metasquares   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
The forum's working fine right now. Why change a good thing?

As you've probably noticed, many people would argue that PHP is not a better language than Perl. If you think that one programming language is "better" than another except for specific uses, you're missing the point entirely. All of you. It's like saying that a hammer is better than an ohmmeter. Completely different uses - you wouldn't drive nails in with an ohmmeter (unless it came from Radio Shack) and you wouldn't measure resistance with a hammer.

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Snaggy

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Icon 3 posted March 31, 2006 09:21      Profile for Snaggy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I considered using phpBB a few years ago, and tried it out, but in the end, I preferred the look of this one, and its features, and as Metasquares pointed out, it's currently working fine, so why mess with it. [Smile]
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dragonman97

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Icon 1 posted March 31, 2006 09:56      Profile for dragonman97   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Snaggy:
I considered using phpBB a few years ago, and tried it out, but in the end, I preferred the look of this one, and its features, and as Metasquares pointed out, it's currently working fine, so why mess with it. [Smile]

Just...um...don't do "Search." [Razz]

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drunkennewfiemidget
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Icon 1 posted March 31, 2006 10:14      Profile for drunkennewfiemidget     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Jace Raven:
quote:
Originally posted by drunkennewfiemidget:
quote:
Originally posted by webmacster87:
PHP doesn't require variable declarations, true, but it's still a good idea to declare your variables. For example, if you're going to run a function that returns an array, it's a good idea to do
code:
$var = array();

beforehand so that $var is declared.
That is completely irrelevant. The fact of the matter remains that PHP does not require it, so you could spend hours and hours and hours trying to find a bug just because you misspelled a variable name.
You could spend hours and hours in any language looking for a bug just because you misspelled something though. Though, most debuggers will tell you what the problem is. Dont think this is true with php. Dont know, dont use it, dont care to use it.
No. Most languages will throw a compile-time error, or at the very least, a runtime warning.

Closest thing to not being able to do that that I can think of is a hash in perl. But that's what tie()'d hashes are for.

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drunkennewfiemidget
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Icon 1 posted March 31, 2006 10:15      Profile for drunkennewfiemidget     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by dragonman97:
quote:
Originally posted by Snaggy:
I considered using phpBB a few years ago, and tried it out, but in the end, I preferred the look of this one, and its features, and as Metasquares pointed out, it's currently working fine, so why mess with it. [Smile]

Just...um...don't do "Search." [Razz]
I've been meaning to do something about that for some time.. I even wrote a new search script, I just needed to figure out how exactly ubb distincts 'superfans' from non-superfans, so it knew not to search in superfan threads when a non-superfan is searching..
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GrumpySteen

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Icon 1 posted March 31, 2006 15:06      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Metasquares wrote:
It's like saying that a hammer is better than an ohmmeter. Completely different uses - you wouldn't drive nails in with an ohmmeter (unless it came from Radio Shack) and you wouldn't measure resistance with a hammer.

Trust me... sometimes when dealing with electronics, a hammer can provide a far more gratifying solution than any ohmmeter ever could. [Big Grin]

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Jace Raven

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quote:
Originally posted by drunkennewfiemidget:
quote:
Originally posted by Jace Raven:
quote:
Originally posted by drunkennewfiemidget:
quote:
Originally posted by webmacster87:
PHP doesn't require variable declarations, true, but it's still a good idea to declare your variables. For example, if you're going to run a function that returns an array, it's a good idea to do
code:
$var = array();

beforehand so that $var is declared.
That is completely irrelevant. The fact of the matter remains that PHP does not require it, so you could spend hours and hours and hours trying to find a bug just because you misspelled a variable name.
You could spend hours and hours in any language looking for a bug just because you misspelled something though. Though, most debuggers will tell you what the problem is. Dont think this is true with php. Dont know, dont use it, dont care to use it.
No. Most languages will throw a compile-time error, or at the very least, a runtime warning.

Closest thing to not being able to do that that I can think of is a hash in perl. But that's what tie()'d hashes are for.

Now, i'm a still a little new to perl, but uh... isn't that what use strict; use warnings; is for. Debugging purposes?
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Metasquares
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Icon 1 posted March 31, 2006 18:29      Profile for Metasquares   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Steen:
Metasquares wrote:
It's like saying that a hammer is better than an ohmmeter. Completely different uses - you wouldn't drive nails in with an ohmmeter (unless it came from Radio Shack) and you wouldn't measure resistance with a hammer.

Trust me... sometimes when dealing with electronics, a hammer can provide a far more gratifying solution than any ohmmeter ever could. [Big Grin]

Resist THIS! *Smash* [Big Grin]
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