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Author Topic: Heather Mills donates $1 million in soy
Rhonwyyn

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Icon 1 posted September 20, 2008 04:49      Profile for Rhonwyyn   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Heather Mills is giving $1 million of soy "meat" to a poor Bronx neighborhood. Unless they've dramatically improved the taste and texture of imitation meat, I can't imagine that the people she's trying to help will eat it. They might be poor, but they're still people, with tastes and preferences like anyone else. But hey, I could be wrong. Maybe they'll just be so hungry that they'll be grateful for it. "Don't bite the hand that feeds you" and all that.

I'm having a hard time thinking this is a good thing and not another celebrity's misguided attempt to promote an ideal (eat soy, not meat) with those they're "helping" just an afterthought. I'd be interested to see how she decided on the neighborhood, if she's working with any aid organizations (like Community Action Program or a food bank), and if she talked with the people themselves to hear what they need.

oy.

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Grummash

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Icon 1 posted September 20, 2008 05:05      Profile for Grummash     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Rhonwyyn - I am as suspicious of this gesture as you are.

I am not fond of proselytising in any of its forms, and this does look like a cheap publicity stunt. There is no reason at all why she couldn't choose a suitable community support organisation and just give them the million dollars to use as they see fit.

The only reasons I can see for donating soya food products are:
1) foisting her opinions on other people
2) promoting a food brand she is connected with
3) or maybe it's a tax dodge??

Whichever is nearest to the truth, it does nothing to change most people's view of her as a nasty, conniving witch.

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GrumpySteen

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Icon 1 posted September 20, 2008 05:29      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Dear Vegans,

I will never understand your obsession with fake meat products. Fresh vegetables taste pretty good and aren't heavily processed, artificially colored and artificially flavored.

...plus they don't look and taste like something that came out of a cat's ass.

Sincerely,
Grumpy

P.S.
4) Dumping product that didn't sell before it expires and because the charitable write-off provides a better tax reduction than a simiple loss.

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spungo
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Icon 1 posted September 20, 2008 07:18      Profile for spungo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Err... vegans still need protein*. I imagine one can get bored with beans every day.

(* Vegans are people too... I think. [Wink] )

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GrumpySteen

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Icon 1 posted September 20, 2008 07:39      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
If the peasants cannot eat beans, then let them eat peanut butter...
or sunflower seeds
or quinoa
or weat germ
or toasted pumpkin seeds
or peanuts
or cashews
or fava beans with a nice chianti...

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Bibo
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Icon 1 posted September 20, 2008 08:41      Profile for Bibo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I became a vegetarian after being a meat eater for over 22 years. Fake meat products made the switch easier. Just because I'm a vegetarian does not mean I must eat salads and mush. I can still eat things similar to what I grew up on without having to kill an animal.

And these products have come a long way in the past 15 years as far as taste goes. Also many of these fake meat products are eaten by non-vegetarians for health reasons. Some of these products would fool a meat eater if they did not know what they were eating.

Now I'm off to make waffles with a side of MorningStar sausage patties!

And lunch will most likely be Falafel.

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Snaggy

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Icon 3 posted September 20, 2008 09:04      Profile for Snaggy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Rhon: They *have* dramatically improved the taste and texture (and variety) of fake meats.
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Nitrozac

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Icon 6 posted September 20, 2008 10:55      Profile for Nitrozac   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I can understand Rhonwyyn's and Grummash's point, ultruistic celebrities portrayed in the media is getting a little irritating, for some reason.

However.... [evil] she isn't causing anyone any harm, really. It's her money to do what she wants with. She has the right to spend as much as she wants any way she wants, so what's so terrible about using her own money to help feed people who are having a hard time making ends meet? I'm sure the poor people in the Bronx won't be forced to eat the soy products if they don't want to. They can eat and not eat whatever they want to.

What's the difference between Heather Mills handing out soy products, and businesses handing out turkeys at Thanks Giving? Nobody's forcing anyone to take a turkey. (Personally I think it's pretty horrible when they give out turkeys because hundreds and thousands of birds have been treated very cruelly and killed inhumanely for a holiday meal!) If I had the extra million dollars around to do something good, I'd hand out Tofurky at Thanksgiving! [Big Grin]

I think what she's doing is pretty cool. IMHO. Go Heather! [Applause]

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Grummash

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Icon 1 posted September 20, 2008 14:25      Profile for Grummash     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Nitro does have a valid point here....

"It's her money to do what she wants with. She has the right to spend as much as she wants any way she wants..."

- and it is probably fair to say that if you focus on any community that is struggling with day-to-day expenses, free food will be welcomed by at least part of that community.

But the decider in this issue will be the answer to Rhonnie's question:

"I'd be interested to see.... if she talked with the people themselves to hear what they need."

Unless and until we get a definite and authoritative "Yes!" in answer to that question, I'm afraid the over-riding imperative here is control-freakery.

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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted September 20, 2008 15:33      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Steen:
If the peasants cannot eat beans, then let them eat...

...quinoa

Have you tasted quinoa?

I'd rather eat the plastic wrapping my steak came in.

btw - on the subject of celebrity donations...

The Tories in the UK have announced some policies which heavily favour "married families" at the expense of less traditional families. As a former single mother herself, J.K. Rowling took offence, issued a scathing press release, and donated £1,000,000 to the Labour Party.

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nibbler
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Icon 1 posted September 20, 2008 16:06      Profile for nibbler   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
It really does play to the fact that people are designed to eat meat.

Even when people feel the need to tell us how horrible meat is they want to no teat meat buy eating something that tries to look, smell taste and act like meat.

Why?
Why?
Why?

I love vegetables and fruits - i eat them all the time along with tasty Meat.

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Callipygous
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Icon 1 posted September 20, 2008 16:31      Profile for Callipygous     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
In one of the introductory essays in "French Provincial Cooking", arguably the greatest cookery book ever written, Elizabeth David quotes the French writer and gastronome Curnonsky who said "Good cooking is when things tastes of what they are", and Auguste Escoffier's maxim "Faites simple."

These two instructions encapsulate all the kitchen wisdom you will ever need. Simple of course does not mean lazy or easy, just that you aim to bring out the essential character of what you are cooking. That is why vegetarian food pretending to be meat is an abomination. Giving away food is fine, and if you don't want include meat, what is wrong with a box of vegetables? Or if she wants to give prepared meals away, how about Indian vegetarian food. That is delicious.

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Bibo
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Icon 1 posted September 20, 2008 16:34      Profile for Bibo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Because I can eat this without the guilt of killing an animal. I was a huge steak eater, I've never claimed meat is horrible.

quote:
Originally posted by nibbler:
It really does play to the fact that people are designed to eat meat.

Even when people feel the need to tell us how horrible meat is they want to no teat meat buy eating something that tries to look, smell taste and act like meat.

Why?
Why?
Why?

I love vegetables and fruits - i eat them all the time along with tasty Meat.


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nibbler
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Icon 1 posted September 20, 2008 16:51      Profile for nibbler   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Think of all the cows you are putting out of work!

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snupy
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Icon 1 posted September 20, 2008 17:08      Profile for snupy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I'm trying desperately to go vegetarian for ethical reasons but finding it really hard. To me, the fake meat tastes awful. I hate fish and most beans. What I've ended up doing is cutting way down on meat and cutting out one type at a time. I'm getting creative with eggs(free range), cheese, veggies and prawns.

Kudos to those of you who have done it. [Applause]

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nibbler
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Icon 1 posted September 20, 2008 17:34      Profile for nibbler   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
You know if you are worried about production methods you could always find local farms who raise a few animals and buy a side or whole cow.

Or you could hunt for wild meat!

Extra Yummie!

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Bibo
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Icon 1 posted September 20, 2008 17:41      Profile for Bibo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I also don't tell people what to eat. Nor do I act like a complete ass about it.

quote:
Originally posted by nibbler:
You know if you are worried about production methods you could always find local farms who raise a few animals and buy a side or whole cow.

Or you could hunt for wild meat!

Extra Yummie!


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TMBWITW,PB

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Icon 1 posted September 20, 2008 17:56      Profile for TMBWITW,PB     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by snupy:
I'm trying desperately to go vegetarian for ethical reasons but finding it really hard. To me, the fake meat tastes awful. I hate fish and most beans. What I've ended up doing is cutting way down on meat and cutting out one type at a time. I'm getting creative with eggs(free range), cheese, veggies and prawns.

Kudos to those of you who have done it. [Applause]

Not to be rude, but fish and prawns are animals. If you're eating them you're not vegetarian, you're pescetarian. (Not that there's anything wrong with that. [Wink] ) It may seem like a fine line, but a lot of vegetarians who don't eat any animal flesh have people trying to give them fish of some kind because they know someone who is "vegetarian" who eats it.

If you are looking for really good vegetarian recipes though I have a great cookbook called Veganomicon. Try the Seitan Piccata. It is to die for! *drools*

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Nitrozac

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Icon 1 posted September 20, 2008 18:03      Profile for Nitrozac   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Snupy, that's awesome! I'm so happy that you're making such a huge and important change in your life for ethical reasons! You totally rock!!! [thumbsup]

Sounds like you're doing really well. It takes a very long time to "get off meat", and I think you're doing it very wisely. I remember when I went veggie it took months and months and I eliminated one type of meat at a time. I was a poor student at the time, and the last to go was chicken wings because they'd always have 5 cent wing night at my favorite pubs. But be patient, go easy on yourself, and as time goes on, suddenly you'll realize you're a vegetarian without any misery whatsoever! Even if you do have a "slip up" every now then, don't beat yourself up, it happens to everyone, and think of all the lives you've saved with your efforts already.

That's just Awesome! I'm so impressed. [Big Grin]

Perhaps fake meat is an aquired taste. [Razz] I've been eating it for years and years, and quite enjoy it, but I can understand that not everyone likes it. A really good product that I've been into for a while now, is this stuff called, "It's all Good, Veggie Chick'n Breasts". I make real mashed potatoes, with steamed broccoli and carrots on the side, and it's a very satisfying and delicious meal!

oh, another thing I was going to mention. Snaggy and I have a friend who used to work for a food bank in Toronto. He said that they'd often get really healthy, whole foods, like multigrain breads from bakeries and such and the people wouldn't like it all, they would go for white bread, doughnuts, kraft dinner, and leave the healthy stuff. Even though they're hungry and poor! I would never have guessed that food bank patrons were so fussy! So, this soy foods give away, it could backfire, if they don't want it, they're not going to touch it, and that's they're perogative. I think the whole issue boils down to political issues in the states, why are people and family going hungry? From what I see on the news the states is having a lot of problems, with millions uninsured, millions going bankrupt, losing their homes, gas prices skyrocketing, etc. It's a very complicated issue.

I wonder as well, why is she feeding people in the US? Why not provide food for people who are starving in Africa, Afghanistan, Iraq, these people are actually dying of starvation! But, I still think she's doing a cool thing. [Smile]

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GrumpySteen

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Icon 1 posted September 20, 2008 20:58      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
The Famous Druid wrote:
Have you tasted quinoa?

By itself? Yeah... gross. But would you eat lemons by themselves?

It can taste good if you know how to cook it properly. I usually make something like oatmeal with it, when I have it. With some raisins, cinnamon and honey, it's quite tasty and the chewer texture is quite nice. It works well in most recipes that call for barley, too (granted, those are mostly soups and stews).

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nibbler
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Icon 1 posted September 21, 2008 01:35      Profile for nibbler   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Sorry for offending you, Bibo.

I understand that people who aren't able to raise fresh food are concerned that modern farming methods seem cruel. I assume this is why people who love the taste of meat would want to go veggie. I can see no other reason.

I was simply saying that wild meat killed the good old fashioned way carries less guilt than meat that comes from Chicago.

Most people around the world have a closer relationship to the animals they eat than do modern countries. Pygmies have no guilt over eating an Impala - they tracked it, killed it and prepared it themselves and feel grateful to it for the energy it gave them.

Just like country folk who raise a calf or piglet for a year or more and one day look it square in the eyes and put a .22 between them. What other purpose does the animal have to them?

My dad didn't like the taste of meat. He was beaten as a child for not eating meat when it was rationed during the war. His brothers were fighting on foreign lands and "the least he could do was eat the meat they were fighting for."

When he grew up he spent 20 years in the Navy and retired to a small farm in Florida where we raised, among other things, cattle, pigs, chickens and horses. My dad still didn't eat meat except liver, the first steaks after we butchered a cow, and the first ham from a pig.

For some reason meat tastes better when you know the creature that gave its life for you.

The real asses are the people who live in cities, totally sanitized from non-human creatures, never contribute to the lives of plants or animals and then proselytize or belittle others who don't share their unnatural attitude.

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brainisfried
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Icon 1 posted September 21, 2008 06:21      Profile for brainisfried     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Some people think soy is harmful. Wikipedia summarizes some of the soy health risks. Besides, ADM is the biggest soy producer and they're evil. Fermented soy foods are supposed to be healthy though.

If your ancestors ate meat, you probably need to too. Surviving harsh winters without food animals would have been extremely difficult. You're not going to get the same amino acids in your diet otherwise. Carnetine deficiency is almost guaranteed for vegetarians. ADHD sufferers do better on high protein (especially meat) diets. Some people react very badly to vegetarian diets. Most of the National Socialists were militant vegetarians and look what happened.

The big problem is that most meat today isn't fed the same as it used to be. Grass fed beef is far superior nutritionally to grain fed but more expensive and there might not be enough grazing land to feed modern populations the old fashioned way even if we wanted to. Same goes for wild caught fish versus farmed. Notice the huge difference in color between wild salmon and farmed.

And then there's the damage caused by refined sugar, modern refined vegetable oils, petrochemical additives, etc.

If I were really serious I'd look into a paleolithic diet but I'm settling for a mostly whole foods, minimal sugar, no artificials approach. It's made a huge difference in my health. Quitting soft drinks alone was huge.

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Icon 1 posted September 21, 2008 07:28      Profile for supaboy     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
A long time ago, Paul McCartney was on tour and played at the local university's football stadium. I was a security guard at that concert. A canteen gets set up for people who work at concerts- it can take days for the riggers to set up and tear down those big stages, so food was provided for the workers.

It got to be time for my break, so I headed down to the canteen. There was a spread of Mexican food out, so I made a couple tacos for myself. The first bite was not quite what I expected, and it must have showed on my face. I'm not a very picky eater (except regarding onions), but something was not right.

One of the other guys noticed, and said, "McCartney's a vegetarian, and since he's paying for all the food, it's all vegetarian too."

Ah! That explained it. Once I knew that I was eating a meat-analogue and not actual ground beef, the tacos were perfectly acceptable.

I say, as long as the people who are receiving the donation know what they're getting and have a way to prepare it well, go for it.

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MacManKrisK

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Icon 1 posted September 21, 2008 10:04      Profile for MacManKrisK     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by brainisfried:
Some people think soy is harmful.

Not to mention Soy Makes You Gay. [Roll Eyes]

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get rich and you still die"


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Xanthine

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Icon 1 posted September 21, 2008 10:07      Profile for Xanthine     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Okay, I've been an ova-lacto vegetarian for 13 years. Can't stand the meat. The texture and taste have never appealed. Mom threw the towel when I was in the 9th grade and I've been a happier Xanthine ever since. I seen to be doing just fine on this diet. Imitation meats don't appeal to me at all. The ones that are lousy imitations of meat tend to be lousy vegetarian products, the ones that are good imitations, well, allow me to cite the reason why I became a vegetarian. :roll:

So allow me to clear up some misconceptions here.

Quinoa is quite good when you RINSE IT OFF first. I like it. Good protein source, cooks quickly, and the rinsing step takes all of 30 seconds. The Incas were on to something there. It's great stuffed in peppers.

Large amounts of unprocessed, raw soy is a bad idea. There's a trypsin inhibitor in there. Too much of that and you won't be able to digest protein at all. In Asia they've known about that for centuries, hence things like soy sauce, tofu, tempeh, etc. But really, while soy is a popular protein source for vegetarians, [b]there are others[b]. Like quinoa. Or peanut butter. Or beans. Unpolished grains are another good bet - lots of goodies in those husks. Mushrooms are another route to explore, especially for barbecues. They tend to be more reliable than veggie burgers - finding a decent brand of veggie burgers is a bit annoying. But mushrooms don't fail. A grilled portabella is the food of the gods, but another trick is to make kebabs with green pepper, onion, and any sort of smallish mushroom. That's also really good, and you won't have to make a side dish to complete the meal.

And of course, milk and eggs for the non-vegan variety.

Actually, anything that ever lived has protein, it's just a question of how much and how complete. The other concern is B vitamins; some are very difficult for humans to process out of plants. I personally don't take multi-vitamins, but I'm not vegan either.

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