homeGeek CultureWebstoreeCards!Forums!Joy of Tech!AY2K!webcam

The Geek Culture Forums


Post New Topic  New Poll  Post A Reply
my profile | directory login | | search | faq | forum home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» The Geek Culture Forums   » News, Reviews, Views!   » Your News!   » Mc Cain picks running mate (Page 2)

 - UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!  
This topic comprises 3 pages: 1  2  3 
 
Author Topic: Mc Cain picks running mate
Colonel Panic
BlabberMouth, the Next Generation
Member # 1200

Icon 1 posted September 01, 2008 06:01      Profile for Colonel Panic         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Just looking at how the two politicians have made their first big decision, I'd say Obama is looking like the better candidate.

Joe Biden has experience, he can get things done, if anything were to happen to Obama this nation would have a first rate leader.

And Obama is a young man.

McCain is looking more and more like a man who spent too much time in a tiger cage. Six years of getting his brains getting beat out of him has taken its toll.

Sarah Palin voted FOR the "Bridge to Nowhere" before it became a political albatross and she voted against it.

As for experience, she doesn't hold a candle to Obama. Has she inspired half the nation to support her for President? No. Has she defeated one of most powerful political families in the nation? No. Has she demonstrated political vision to get us out of Iraq -- one that even the Iraqis agree with, even if her running mate does not? No.

Yes, I live just south of Bibo and Holland Michigan. We're deep in Republican-held territory. And, yes, there are a lot of Obama signs sprouting, while the few McCain signs all sit in front of mansions that cause one to ask, "How many homes do you have?"

Word has it that a top aid to our Republican congressional representative is for Obama, too.

Hey, shouldn't this be in the Political Forum?

CP

--------------------
Free! Free at last!

Posts: 1809 | From: Glacier Melt, USA | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
snupy
BlabberMouth, a Blabber Odyssey
Member # 1211

Member Rated:
5
Icon 1 posted September 01, 2008 13:57      Profile for snupy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Snaggy:


cali... excellent summation of how the rest of the planet feels.

I agree. Makes me feel ashamed to be an American sometimes. Too bad I'm so crap at the British accent. [Frown]

Is America the only democratic country where religion is such a big factor when voting?

CP: Forgive me- I've been away too long and did not post in the proper forum. [blush]

--------------------
"I just ordered an extra-long straw to avoid accidentally doing a sit-up"-Jay, Modern Family

Posts: 4269 | From: UK, via Chicago | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
ASM65816
SuperBlabberMouth!
Member # 712

Member Rated:
2
Icon 4 posted September 02, 2008 00:13      Profile for ASM65816   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Just an observation: People have successfully blinded themselves to fundamental characteristics of existence on this planet.

Fact #1: Every human dies.

Fact #2: Some humans die much, much, MUCH sooner than others as a direct result of NATURAL influences (disease, genetic defects, etc).

from http://www.barackobama.com/issues/healthcare/
quote:
The Obama plan will have the following features:
  • Guaranteed eligibility. No American will be turned away from any insurance plan because of illness or pre-existing conditions.
 
...

Catastrophic health expenditures account for a high percentage of medical expenses for private insurers.

Obama doesn't get it -- "Catastrophic Health Expenditures" are EXPENSIVE.
quote:
Mr. Naive: Everything's cheaper if the government pays for it. The government buying a hammer for $1000 costs less than an ordinary person spending $1000 to buy a hammer.

Observer: No ... $1000 is the same as $1000, no matter who is paying.

 
The following happens routinely:
  1. Someone becomes quite sick.
  2. All sorts of medical treatments are authorized by private and government agencies.
  3. Treatments are rendered.
  4. About $700,000 gets billed for services rendered to the patient.
  5. The patient dies three to six months after initial treatments.
 
Lesson: Some "illnesses" and "pre-existing conditions" absolutely should not be "insured" because death is ABSOLUTELY INESCAPABLE for the individual. (Clarification: Ease the patient's suffering -- yes. Repeated, expensive attempts to cure -- no.)

Obama is a fool if he thinks medical expenses can only bankrupt a person -- but not a government.
PS: I've got plenty more criticism for Obama's plans.

--------------------
Once a proud programmer of Apple II's, he now spends his days and nights in cheap dives fraternizing with exotic dancers....

Posts: 1035 | From: Third rock from sun. | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged
Ashitaka

SuperFan!
Member # 4924

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted September 02, 2008 00:23      Profile for Ashitaka     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I agree with Obama's statement to leave the 17 year old daughter of Palin alone, but I wonder if all his supporters, who want a change in the ways we run politics in america, wil listen.

B) I wonder if the daughter is having a shotgun wedding juist because of the election. I mean, 17 years old and married. sheesh.

I few students at my high school married at 17 or 18. I never found out what happened to them. Probably became divorce statistics but i don't know that for a fact.

Getting married because you get knocked up, doesn't work in this day and culture I think.

That being said my grndmother married at 18 and is still married after 54 years, but that was a different time.

--------------------
"If they're not gonna make a distinction between Muslims and violent extremists, then why should I take the time to distinguish between decent, fearful white people and racists?"

-Assif Mandvi

Posts: 3089 | From: Switzerland | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged
Callipygous
BlabberMouth, a Blabber Odyssey
Member # 2071

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted September 02, 2008 03:29      Profile for Callipygous     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
ASM McKinsey, who AFAIK have no political affiliation, disagree with your analysis. I would add however that there are no easy answers to the problem of healthcare, and the only system that I know from first hand, the National Health Service here is riven with seemingly intractable serious problems too.

--------------------
"Knowledge is Power. France is Bacon" - Milton

Posts: 2922 | From: Brighton - UK | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
tweety
Assimilated
Member # 3890

Member Rated:
5
Icon 1 posted September 02, 2008 09:50      Profile for tweety   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Calli I've been away for a bit, but thought I would pipe in now, late, and clarify what I was getting at earlier. I've been to Obama's site and looked through some of the PDFs he has available outlining his policies. I say some as I haven't had time as of yet to go through all of them. But, I did hit the two biggest ones, at least for me, Environment and Healthcare.

Here's my problem, I didn't see anywhere where Obama talks cold hard financial facts. Now, I did catch his acceptance speech, and in that speech he gave me enough information to know where he's looking to dig up the cash for his initiatives. Unlike GWB, he seems to have a serious clue as to where money comes from.

Obama is an exceptional speaker, uplifting, invigorating, inspirational. As snupy has pointed out though, there is a significant portion of the population who lives and breathes fear, God, guns and babies. These are the people who will vote Republican. I'm personally waiting to see how the debates go. You see, I consider myself a true liberal, open to differing views so that I can make up my own mind.

I will say this for Obama, I like his perspective. For too long the Democrats have been all about creating a Nanny State. No personal responsibility for you as Big Government knows best. The fact that he pushes individual responsibility along with mutual responsibility is a huge plus in my book.

--------------------
If I were a good man I'd talk to you more often than I do.
American Fairy Tales
IT, A Philosophy

Posts: 454 | From: IL | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
Stereo

Solid Nitrozanium SuperFan!
Member # 748

Member Rated:
5
Icon 12 posted September 02, 2008 13:50      Profile for Stereo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Ashitaka:
B) I wonder if the daughter is having a shotgun wedding juist because of the election. I mean, 17 years old and married. sheesh.

The curious thing, in my book, is that the potential vice-president is a strong proponent of teenage sex-abstinence. So having a pregnant unmarried teenager means that either she has to accept it is unrealistic to ask all teenagers not to have sex before marriage (and thus change her stand on the question), or disown her daughter. Escape solution: to admit she must not be that great a mother if she couldn't raise even her own daughter to stay chaste until marriage. Hmmm, would that be political suicide?

Now, come on: single teenage mothers are as old as the world. (Ok, as old as sexual reproduction, to be precise.) Especially since marriage came to existance with complex social rules, and complex social rules could only happen when a critical number of people in a society is reached. Even by the Bible, God created only two humans - all others must have been born from a woman's womb. And as far as I know, only one came to this world from the Holy Ghost action's... [evil] Who in their right mind would still pretend that sexual maturity could come without the urge to experiment the reproductive act? And that teenagers are curious - and often reckless - by nature?

Now, if Ms. Palin would have accepted that fact, would her daughter be pregnant today? I mean, wouldn't she have taken the pill if she had known her mother had a more understanding position? Or carried a condom if not for the fear that her mother might find it while doing the laundry? Or even avoid it together, in the case is was a rebellious/explorative action on the daughter's part, if her parents would have dared talked to her about this fact of life in an open, realistic way? Even if in a "we think it's bad, but if you still do it, please make sure to use a condom" way? How many abortions would be avoided this way?

You'll tell me that she is a loving mother who forgives her daughter's mistake. But why not extend this forgiveness, even preemptively, to all teenagers, and drop her stance on the question? Otherwise, it is hypocrisy, nothing less. Oh, right, sorry: she's a politician! [crazy]

(BTW, didn't Jesus harshly condemned the hypocrites, but forgave the sex-sinner in a heartbeat? [Eek!] )

Forgive my long rambling. I even cut it down: this particular Republican's (Christian's? 3-great religions'?) position is so full of fun contradictions that I had a hard time choosing where to stop. (Like, should I mention the fact that until recently - historically-wise -, young girls were married as soon as nubile more often than not, thus avoiding most of the out-of-wedlock teenage pregnancy problem?)

--------------------
Eppur, si muove!

Galileo Galilei

Posts: 2289 | From: Gatineau, Quebec, Canada | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
spungo
BlabberMouth, a Blabber Odyssey
Member # 1089

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted September 02, 2008 14:16      Profile for spungo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I love this picture.

 -

Doesn't it look like she's thinking: "Oh, yeah. Give it to me, you dirty old man!"

--------------------
Shameless plug. (Please forgive me.)

Posts: 6529 | From: Noba Scoba | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
CommanderShroom
BlabberMouth, a Blabber Odyssey
Member # 2097

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted September 02, 2008 14:29      Profile for CommanderShroom     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by spungo:
I love this picture.

 -

Doesn't it look like she's thinking: "Oh, yeah. Give it to me, you dirty old man!"

To me, it looks like she is thinking "I think someone needs a new pair of Depends."

--------------------
Does he know our big secret?
Has one of us confessed?
'Bout the wires circuits and motors
Buried in our chest

Posts: 2465 | From: Utarrrrggggghhh!!!!!!!! | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
TheMoMan
BlabberMouth, a Blabber Odyssey
Member # 1659

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted September 02, 2008 18:13      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
____________________ I have been avoiding this topic, but just had to chime in.__

A: When we (the USA) were the richest county in the world. Why did we have the poorest infant mortality rate?

B: Why do we Americans have so many people using Emergency rooms as clinics?

C: Why do we have so many homeless and indigent people?

D: Where and how did the American Dream get lost?

E: Could not these dying children and homeless people contribute to our society, if they had access to Medical and Dental care?

F: Is it becoming like the times of the French Revolution? "Let them eat cake." As a people we have to wake up and look at some issues that are not on the profit loss sheet.

--------------------
Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.


Benjamin Franklin,

Posts: 5848 | From: Just South of the Huron National Forest, in the water shed of the Rifle River | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
ASM65816
SuperBlabberMouth!
Member # 712

Member Rated:
2
Icon 1 posted September 02, 2008 19:08      Profile for ASM65816   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
September 02, 2008, 03:29
McKinsey, who AFAIK have no political affiliation, disagree with your analysis.

They could have made suggestions, but I think they're afraid of being "cold-hearted" (politically incorrect).

The key phrases from McKinsey & Company are:
  • ... patients and consumers to be value-conscious in their demand decisions
  • ... promote rational use
 
Here's the Bad News: "Rational Use" is nonexistent for some who face death.

Let's say someone 80 years old (as an example) thinks that extending his life by six months is worth $500,000 out of the pockets of others. What is the value he gets for half a million dollars?

Does he escape the icy grip of "Death"? No.

Most likely his last six months will be spent withering away, slowly becoming ever more gaunt, pale, and corpse-like. Needles pump chemicals into him, while tubes drain putrid bile, oozing from dying flesh. Machines serve the place of a motionless heart, but the mind sinks to the doom where eyes do not see, ears cannot hear, and the mouth will never speak again.

It makes no sense to me that someone would choose the case above over a quicker and more natural death.
 

Here's (most likely) the major cause of US health problems: Loss of "Intestinal Fortitude" (aka. Guts/Endurance/Perserverance)

You don't think there's a bunch of whiners in the US? Admit it, you've probably heard something like this from "Yanks":
quote:
Mr. Wussy: NOOOO!!!! Gasoline is $2.80 per gallon! ... I feel so dizzy.... What? Now it's $2.95 a gallon! I can't feel my legs, everything's going black. <gasp> If the price goes any higher ... it'll be the end of the universe. <cough> <cough> <cough>
(IMNSHO) There's a "long list" of things that would can be greatly improved through personal sacrifice of "comforts" for one's own good. Obesity is first on the list. There is a simple principle to losing weight: burn more calories than you consume.
 

from http://www.barackobama.com/issues/healthcare/
quote:
The Problem

Too little is spent on prevention and public health: The nation faces epidemics of obesity .....

How is "the government" going to prevent obesity? "Fat Police" that confiscate cheeseburgers, chocolate, and french-fries from anyone violating federal calorie limit laws? It may be politically incorrect, but "Not-Spending-Money" and "Not-Making-People's-Lives-So-Easy" would probably do the most to combat obesity.

--------------------
Once a proud programmer of Apple II's, he now spends his days and nights in cheap dives fraternizing with exotic dancers....

Posts: 1035 | From: Third rock from sun. | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged
The Famous Druid

Gold Hearted SuperFan!
Member # 1769

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted September 02, 2008 19:25      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Guys, please, this is ASM you're attempting to reason with.


The guy jumps in to a discussion about McCain and shouts something really provocative, like

KILL, KILL, KILL, KILL, KILL THE POOR!!!

It couldn't be a more obvious troll.

Ignore the frakker.

--------------------
If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

Posts: 10680 | From: Melbourne, Australia | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
TheMoMan
BlabberMouth, a Blabber Odyssey
Member # 1659

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted September 03, 2008 03:08      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
_____________________The Famous Druid __ Actually I agree with some of ASM's points. I and the Mrs have been through the deaths of our parents. My mother about six months before the end started to ration her medical tests, with the simple question, is this going to improve my health or answer a question for the Dr.

She had often spoke of people getting work done that truthfully could have helped someone younger much more. The old gal gave away more to charities, than she ever spent on herself.

--------------------
Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.


Benjamin Franklin,

Posts: 5848 | From: Just South of the Huron National Forest, in the water shed of the Rifle River | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
Callipygous
BlabberMouth, a Blabber Odyssey
Member # 2071

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted September 03, 2008 03:45      Profile for Callipygous     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Druid I don't mind talking to ASM, when he is straying from his comfort zone of evil Saddam/corrupt UN/Islam will kill us all etc.

ASM the point of the McKinsey report is that the US spends a lot more than other OECD countries for outcomes that are no better and often worse than theirs. It is not unreasonable to conclude that there must be a better way.

Hard line right wingers like yourself, who now also seem to represent mainstream Republican thinking have great difficulty in finding any solutions, because of your paranoid belief that any government spending in this area will inevitably lead down a slippery slope to the Socialist Republic of the USA, and your simplistic world view which holds that the magic of the market is the only way to make anything work. Often you are right; free markets provide the most creative efficient and effective solutions to many problems, but not to healthcare. This is because it is impossible to set up a proper competitive free market in healthcare, instead of a willing buyer and seller, as you have so eloquently demonstrated, the buyer is often in a position of extreme need and there is often no choice as to the provider.

Perhaps you should be wary of characterising ill or dying people who complain of not getting treatment as whiners. It is quite possible that they are trying to make things better for others who follow them, as much as changing their own situation. I wonder how much equilibrium you might show in such circumstances.

I assume you know what a public health campaign is. Obama believes that there should be more spent on this to combat rising obesity. It seems a simple idea to me, I am not sure how you made it into the cheeseburger police. One of the mysteries of the Cone of Irrelevance perhaps?

Paul Krugman writes (almost obsessively) on healthcare in his NYT columns and blog. This one skewers a fair amount of right wing nonsense.

--------------------
"Knowledge is Power. France is Bacon" - Milton

Posts: 2922 | From: Brighton - UK | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
shentzu
Geek
Member # 2253

Member Rated:
5
Icon 1 posted September 03, 2008 07:38      Profile for shentzu     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Callipygous:
The point of the McKinsey report is that the US spends a lot more than other OECD countries for outcomes that are no better and often worse than theirs. It is not unreasonable to conclude that there must be a better way.

Hard line right wingers like yourself, who now also seem to represent mainstream Republican thinking have great difficulty in finding any solutions, because of your paranoid belief that any government spending in this area will inevitably lead down a slippery slope to the Socialist Republic of the USA, and your simplistic world view which holds that the magic of the market is the only way to make anything work. Often you are right; free markets provide the most creative efficient and effective solutions to many problems,

the difficulty i have with that is that it has never been tested. by which i mean "free market."

in a free market the consumer makes a choice based on full knowledge of the products available and based on reason. yet we know marketing predates the roman empire. we cannot have both.

sorry for this philosophical sidetrack, i now return you to your program....

having said that, Calli is completely right, the basic logic that suggests that if a tiny economically depressed and sanctioned country like Cuba can have a healthcare system that in many actually compares to that of one of the most advanced nations, then something is wrong, and we should be looking for answers. one important answer is that in the so-called natural monopolies, as well as in any area that broadly intersects human rights, a considerable degree of oversight is required due to the way such areas lend themselves to abuses of power. healthcare has certain aspects of both.....

it is a debate that should be had in America, but like most debates n America today, there is an unusual degree of stubborn anti-intellectual ignorance on one side of the debate. and thus progress stops. where do you suppose this anti-intellectual bend comes from?

--------------------
Set a man by a fire and you keep him warm for a day, but set a man on fire and you keep him warm for the rest of his life.

Posts: 108 | From: here and there | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged
TheMoMan
BlabberMouth, a Blabber Odyssey
Member # 1659

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted September 03, 2008 11:00      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
___________________ So how did we get here? Greed printing more money than we can back up until it becomes worthless. More greed on the part of Banks and Mortgage Companies, Wall Street that short term profits are more important than long term growth

A: When we (the USA) were the richest county in the world. Why did we have the poorest infant mortality rate?

B: Why do we Americans have so many people using Emergency rooms as clinics?

C: Why do we have so many homeless and indigent people?

D: Where and how did the American Dream get lost?

E: Could not these dying children and homeless people contribute to our society, if they had access to Medical and Dental care?

F: Is it becoming like the times of the French Revolution? "Let them eat cake." As a people we have to wake up and look at some issues that are not on the profit loss sheet.

This problem has been coming for a long time and is not related to OIL of lack of holes in the ground.

Pickens Plan is just that a way for him to make more money off the the populace by not selling oil his natural gas reserves need to be used, lets change over our cars yeah me.

--------------------
Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.


Benjamin Franklin,

Posts: 5848 | From: Just South of the Huron National Forest, in the water shed of the Rifle River | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
Colonel Panic
BlabberMouth, the Next Generation
Member # 1200

Icon 1 posted September 03, 2008 20:58      Profile for Colonel Panic         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
This troopergate scandal with Palin is an absolute mess.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080904/ap_on_el_pr/cvn_palin_troopergate

She's Dick Cheney Jr., plus the worst of the Clinton gang.

Shows very bad judgement on McCain's part. This one scandal is just the tip of the melting iceberg.

Remember the loud-mouthed bully at PTA, the Hockey Mom who tried to get a $5 a game official fired for making a call against her kid? You know the type, That's Sarah Palin.

Governor of Alaska? With a population of 670,000, there are fewer people in Alaska than Memphis Tennessee, the 17th most populous city in the USA.

Yeah, buddy, that's real change.

CP

--------------------
Free! Free at last!

Posts: 1809 | From: Glacier Melt, USA | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
Callipygous
BlabberMouth, a Blabber Odyssey
Member # 2071

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted September 04, 2008 01:18      Profile for Callipygous     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Colonel Panic:

She's Dick Cheney Jr., plus the worst of the Clinton gang.

That's unfair!

She is the governor of a large, sparsely populated, proud, independent minded, oil rich State at the edge of the US, whose political landscape is dominated by the lunatic wing of the Republican Party. She has undoubted personal charm and media appeal. She is no intellectual, but she does seem to be a very smart political operator. Until last year she has not been outside the US. She is a religious fundamentalist and creationist, who regards scientific evidence as only part of the picture, and accordingly does not believe the causes of climate change include man made ones.

Remind you of anyone?

Is it possible that like Dr Who he can regenerate himself in another body?

Yes that was unfair.. to Dick Cheney.

quote:
Originally posted by Colonel Panic:

Yeah, buddy, that's real change.

CP

Amen.

--------------------
"Knowledge is Power. France is Bacon" - Milton

Posts: 2922 | From: Brighton - UK | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
Snaggy

Sir Snaggalot!
Member # 123

Member Rated:
5
Icon 1 posted September 04, 2008 08:03      Profile for Snaggy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Originally posted by spungo: I love this picture.

Sarah Palin Holding Her "Special Needs" Child...
 -

ha ha from Reddit today [Big Grin]

Posts: 8111 | From: Canada | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged
Snaggy

Sir Snaggalot!
Member # 123

Member Rated:
5
Icon 10 posted September 04, 2008 09:49      Profile for Snaggy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
 -
Posts: 8111 | From: Canada | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged
ASM65816
SuperBlabberMouth!
Member # 712

Member Rated:
2
Icon 1 posted September 07, 2008 19:57      Profile for ASM65816   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Part I: An Experiment in Futility
quote:
September 03, 2008, 03:45
The point of the McKinsey report is that the US spends a lot more than other OECD countries for outcomes that are no better and often worse than theirs. It is not unreasonable to conclude that there must be a better way.

I told you (a small part) about "a better way" -- Don't Waste Money on "Cheating Death." (Note: "Discouraging Death" is Ok.)

Let's make an experiment: Health Care Spending as It Relates to Results

Controlled Variables (kept the same in all tests):
    Cost of Drugs, Surgical Procedures, Tests (X-rays, etc), Labor (Doctors/Nurses)

Test Subjects: Patients with some "Terminal" Condition

Test Group A: Give Patients $100,000 of medical treatments.
    Observed Result: Each Patient Dies.

Test Group B: Give Patients $500,000 of medical treatments.
    Observed Result: Each Patient Dies.

Conclusion: Spending an additional $400,000 on a patient whose death is certain doesn't produce a "better outcome" (because the patient dies either way).

The first step in controlling medical costs is KNOWING WHEN NOT TO SPEND MONEY. Taking every 50,000-to-1, $40,000 gamble to "save every life" wastes millions (billions?) of dollars in health care.
 

Part II: Anti-Obesity and Government
quote:
The nation faces epidemics of obesity .....
We can look at this in one of two ways (generally speaking):
  1. There Were Not Government Anti-Obesity Programs 50 Years Ago; Therefore, Obesity Can Be Prevented Without Government Intervention: Basically, unless calorie intake VASTLY exceeds calories burned, obesity does not occur. The movie "Super Size Me" (2004) by Morgan Spurlock basically showed how a person's behavior results in obesity. Was the government supposed to stop him from getting fat by using a Restraining Order to keep him more than 100 feet from McDonalds?
    (Answer: No.)
     
  2. CIA Fat Virus Escapes from Secret Lab (Conspiracy Nut view): Well, if you believe that   [shake head] ... then I guess I'll explain what happened....
    quote:
    You see the CIA wanted a virus that would make people instantaneously explode with a force equal to a blast from the person's weight in Nitroglycerin. Well, instead of "blow-up" ... people just "balloned-up" at the rate of a couple of pounds a week. The Omicron-7X strain of the virus is practically unstoppable -- infected subjects can gain as much as 100 pounds per month while being dehydrated and forced to starve.   [Eek!]
 

Part III: Obama Campaign (Short Version)
quote:
If you vote for me:
  • You'll make more money (and if you're not working, you'll still have money).
  • No matter how much medical care anyone needs, it'll all be affordable.
  • The world's problems will go away with me as President -- because America will be POPULAR!

To be blunt: Obama's plans are based on epic proportions of wishful thinking.

Every "modern" government that has used "take-from-rich-and-give-to-everyone-else" as their domestic policy, now has "the (impoverished) masses" and the (totalitarian) government, not to mention millions dead from "re-education camps" and "state economic programs."

Because of Obama's campaign promises, there are people that run businesses and balance books (accounting) that will vote against him because his plans reek of "Vote for me, and you'll get something for nothing."
 

Part IV: The "Secret" No One Cares About

(First I thought Democrats could use this to get more votes, then I thought "no, the voters aren't smart enough to understand.)

"It's about waste, stupid." -- Basically, get rid of "waste" (poor return on government investment), and a large portion of (domestic) government problems take care of themselves.

Unfortunately, the public (aka. "the voters") slothfully embraces waste. When you see an Aluminum can on the side of the road, it's because people prefer waste and "convenience" over making a (pitifully small) personal sacrifice for the greater good of society.

--------------------
Once a proud programmer of Apple II's, he now spends his days and nights in cheap dives fraternizing with exotic dancers....

Posts: 1035 | From: Third rock from sun. | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged
Callipygous
BlabberMouth, a Blabber Odyssey
Member # 2071

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted September 08, 2008 03:55      Profile for Callipygous     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
First I would like to apologise to everyone here for trying to engage ASM in civilised debate one last time. ASM reminds me of what David Niven said about Errol Flynn, - you could rely on him, because you knew he would always let you down. ASM likewise never fails to live down to our lowest expectations.

ASM you are not stupid, so you must know that you are going into scattergun rant mode again, spraying out bucketfuls of what you must know are nonsensical statements. I assume this is because you also know that you have lost the actual argument. This is exactly why people here find you so irritating. I am not going to waste my time, or dignify your post by destroying each and every one of your obvious fallacies, but as an example, and on the assumption that it contains the nub of your argument, I'll answer portion 1.

You argue that treatment for terminally ill people is wasted money as it cannot stop them dying. You are making a deliberately fallacious and misleading argument, because you must know that is not what it's supposed to do. Treatment for the terminally ill aims to prolong life, and/or alleviate suffering. That is a reasonable aim. After all, unless you are one of those who believes that with enough plastic surgery and time in the gym, death is just an option, we all have a terminal condition. That really has to be one of the most stupid arguments you have ever made on these forums, and the rest of your post is no better. Instead, when you are losing an argument, either try a little humility and concede that your opponent might have a point, or just give up. You only make yourself look ridiculous posting such ill thought out nonsense.

You view everything through the spectacles of extreme right wing ideology, which stops you from viewing the world with the clear eyed scientific objectivity you claim. In this case it's your blind faith in the ability of the market to best regulate all human activity. You might not understand all the references to UK society in this opinion piece, but the basic argument is well made.

You haven't learned a thing, so sadly despite having a little more respect for you personally than most others here, respecting their wishes, I must just give up on you. I will not reply to anything you write. Bye.

--------------------
"Knowledge is Power. France is Bacon" - Milton

Posts: 2922 | From: Brighton - UK | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
ASM65816
SuperBlabberMouth!
Member # 712

Member Rated:
2
Icon 4 posted September 08, 2008 11:27      Profile for ASM65816   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
September 08, 2008 03:55
You argue that treatment for terminally ill people is wasted money as it cannot stop them dying.

You say my position is false and misleading. How about you accept a challenge from me?

I ask you questions about providing better health care for money spent, and you give me answers.

In theory, it should be easy for you to provide clear and concise answers, because all you have to do is restate Obama's plans (or someone else's plans). The "best part" is that I won't be telling you how to deal with "the problem."

[ohwell]   I hope you're not afraid to accept the challenge, because that would mean you expect to lose, and Obama's health plans (and others' plans as well) aren't that great after all.

--------------------
Once a proud programmer of Apple II's, he now spends his days and nights in cheap dives fraternizing with exotic dancers....

Posts: 1035 | From: Third rock from sun. | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged
Stereo

Solid Nitrozanium SuperFan!
Member # 748

Member Rated:
5
Icon 1 posted September 08, 2008 12:29      Profile for Stereo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by ASM65816:
[QUOTE] I hope you're not afraid to accept the challenge, because that would mean you expect to lose, (...)

Bwahahaha!

Hum. I mean: BWAHAHAHAHA! [Big Grin] [crazy] [Big Grin] [crazy] [Big Grin]

(If you don't understand why I am laughing so hard, go read "The Emperor's New Clothes".)

--------------------
Eppur, si muove!

Galileo Galilei

Posts: 2289 | From: Gatineau, Quebec, Canada | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Grummash

Gold Hearted SuperFan!
Member # 4289

Icon 1 posted September 08, 2008 13:14      Profile for Grummash     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Look into the picture....look really really close.....


 -


What's that under the bridge? [Wink]

--------------------
...and yet, across the gulf of space, minds immeasurably superior to ours regarded this earth with envious eyes...

Posts: 2335 | From: Lancashire,UK | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged


All times are Eastern Time
This topic comprises 3 pages: 1  2  3 
 
Post New Topic  New Poll  Post A Reply Close Topic    Move Topic    Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:

Contact Us | Geek Culture Home Page

2015 Geek Culture

Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classicTM 6.4.0



homeGeek CultureWebstoreeCards!Forums!Joy of Tech!AY2K!webcam