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Author Topic: I'm going vegan everyone!
Grummash

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Icon 1 posted January 26, 2007 16:22      Profile for Grummash     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by garlicguy:
Are you planning on doing the total conversion gradually or immediately?

Is it difficult to find tasty options to replace meats and dairy? Is it more expensive?

Anyone care to share how long it takes to get over the meat habit. (Absence of cravings).

Ok... here goes a serious, if disjointed, answer to these entirely reasonable questions....

1) Firstly, the disclaimer. There has been increasing recognition lately of the futility of some of the attempts by forum members to persuade other forum members that a particular political viewpoint is superior.
I note the amount of energy that is expended to no effect, and that is partly why I have not yet ventured my opinions on the omnivore/herbivore argument.
However, the main reason I have kept relatively schtum is that I do not believe you can ever convince a meat-eater to renounce the flesh by rational argument. Now, this is not to say that flesh-eaters are beyond rational thinking, perish the thought, but rather that the decision to forswear meat is one that comes from a deeper place than the intellect.

2) And so to question One. For me the change was gradual and instantaneous. For many years I was a happy and committed meat-eater and, although I could never condone the commercial slaughter system, I did believe that people should have some experience of killing and preparing their own meat. "Keep it real" and all that.
But year after year I felt myself becoming less comfortable with the idea of taking life to fill my belly. One day, I read an article in a newspaper about a record-breaking specimen fish, possibly a turbot. It was over six feet long and was reckoned to be at least thirty-five years old when it was caught. I wept. There was no need for that creature to die - it was not going to feed anyone who was starving, just fat, happy, first-worlders. I have not eaten animals since that day. I believe that turning veggie/vegan will hang on an "epiphany" of some description for most people - so proselytising is pointless.

3) Is it difficult to find tasty options, and is it expensive?
In this respect veggie/vegan is the same as a meaty diet - if you take an interest in what you eat and don't rely on processed microwave meals, good food is easy and cheap. TV dinners are an abomination, whether they are veggie or not.

4) Getting over the cravings...once you make that "life-choice" there are no cravings. Well, not for meat, anyway. But I still crave garlic, red wine, olive oil, single malt, salty rice etc etc.

Here endeth the sermon.
[Wink]

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...and yet, across the gulf of space, minds immeasurably superior to ours regarded this earth with envious eyes...

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Callipygous
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Icon 1 posted January 26, 2007 16:28      Profile for Callipygous     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I believe in Curnonsky's dictum that "Good cooking is when things taste of what they are", so I cannot understand why veggies mess with fake meat. It's never going to be meat, so why bother? I like things like new potatoes simply boiled so you can almost taste the earth they have come from, or mussels cooked with just a few onions and a splash of wine, and again you can almost smell the sea when you eat them. I admit that when you have no meat a meal can lack a certain punch, so the vegetarian or vegan things I like generally are built around things with a strong flavour, like spinach or aubergines or mushrooms. This is one of my favourite vegetarian things that is simple and good

Tzatsiki

Take a cucumber, peel it (a swivel bladed potato peeler works best) and grate it coarsely into a sieve resting over a bowl. Sprinkle half a teaspoon of salt over the grated cucumber, and let osmosis work its magic to drain most of the water out of the cucumber over the next 30 min to an hour. Then take a clove of garlic and crush it with the blade of your kitchen knife over a pinch of salt and work it until you have a creamy raw garlic paste. Take a small bunch of fresh mint and strip the leaves from the stems and chop them finely. Place the cucumber, garlic paste, and chopped mint leaves in a bowl together with about 250 gms thick Greek yogurt and 2 tablespoons of good quality olive oil and mix together. Taste and adjust the seasoning. Bought tzatsiki has no garlic in it, so it is anaemic and boring, but since this contains raw garlic be careful, or it will blow your head off! It is important to use proper thick Greek yogurt and to let the water drain from the cucumber, or it will not have the proper thick creamy consistency, but otherwise this is about as simple and foolproof as a recipe can get. It is not only delicious as a dip, but good in other things, with baked potatoes for instance, or as a sauce for oily fish, or as a filling in an omlette. However you use it, it is delicious.

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"Knowledge is Power. France is Bacon" - Milton

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Icon 14 posted January 26, 2007 18:42      Profile for Mr. Dave     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Nitro:

Looking back at my previous post, I realize I came off sounding a bit... umm... well, definitely not the way I intended; for that I apologize.

What I set out to say was this: that I believe any philosophical position, provided that it's carefully considered, that it harms neither you nor those around you, and that you don't try to impose it on others, is every bit as valid as any other no matter how silly some people may feel it to be. Simply making such a decision is an accomplishment many will never achieve. Congratulations; now hold to your principles and let no-one, even me (especially me) try to trip you up.

I did consider philosophical/spiritual vegetarianism some years ago; when I realized that virtually everything we eat used to be alive (water, salt, alum if you make pickles... can't think of anything else) I realized that such a philosophy just wouldn't work for me. (There was that, and Margaret Atwood's screaming carrots.) These are entirely my own sentiments, and should have no influence on anyone else's decision.

And now,

Garlic-Grilled Portobellos

While we're swapping recipes, try this: pull the stems off some good big portobello mushrooms, then brush the caps with a mixture of olive oil, lemon juice and crushed garlic. (I leave the proportions as an exercise for the reader.) Let them stand for 15 minutes or so, then toss them gills-up on a medium-hot grill. Let them cook for a couple minutes, then flip them and cook for a couple more, until they're tender. (Poke 'em in the centre with a sharp knife; you should see just a little juice start to pool.)

Serve them whole or sliced, alone or over hamburgers or soyburgers, or however you see fit. Or here's an idea: slice them, still warm, over fresh salad greens and drizzle with a little balsalmic vinaigrette!

(Damn; now I'm hungry again...)

--
From life, to death, to life, circle without end. These lives have ended that ours may be nourished and continue; for this we offer thanks and respect, and remember that one day this flesh, too, will become food.

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I'm not normally like this, but then I'm not normally normal.

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Nitrozac

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Icon 1 posted January 27, 2007 23:39      Profile for Nitrozac   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Hey GG:
Yeah, answers for you here;

The Becoming Vegan Approach: When I went vegetarian, I did it gradually, First gave up pork, an easy target. Then beef, hamburgers was hard to give up, but at the time in Toronto there was this restaurant that served the most awesome veggie burgers ever, the restaurant was called Blue Berry Hill. Then, chicken which was hard because I was a poor student and wing night was very important to me. Seafood was next, that took a while too. So about half a year for that at least. Cravings lasted over a year, as my system adjusted to not getting all that salt and additives and nitrites and whatnot. To solve that I got into cooking and made a big effort to learn to make tasty vegetarian meals.

Then I drifted back to eating seafood because of the press it was getting for being heart healthy and it gave me more options when I went out.

Cut to a week ago, it was easy cutting the fish out, I didn't eat it very often anyway, then the dairy and eggs was an immediate cut out thing cause I'm really turned off and don't want anything to do with the fish, dairy and egg industry.

I do have cravings, but luckily there is a lot of vegan options, and I'm serious about cutting out white sugar which is in everything. White sugar is verboten because in the refining process they apparently use animal charcoal filters. And, since I'm concerned about weightloss, sugar has got to go. There just can't be an arguement for white sugar? So, one of my vises, of course was chocolate, but thanks to chocolate soymilk, I'm over it.

Best of luck let us know how it goes! (Love the recipes guys and gals!)

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GrumpySteen

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Icon 1 posted January 28, 2007 20:03      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
look... a very long article

... but it matches up with my opinions better than almost everything else I've ever read.

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dragonman97

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Icon 1 posted January 28, 2007 21:07      Profile for dragonman97   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Steen:
look... a very long article

... but it matches up with my opinions better than almost everything else I've ever read.

Ugh...the NYT magazine. Sometimes I think they write long spiels for that just for the sake of writing long spiels. I'll read it at some point, probably in dead tree format. There's no way in hell that I'm going to read a 10+ page story on a computer screen.

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There are three things you can be sure of in life: Death, taxes, and reading about fake illnesses online...

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fs

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Icon 1 posted January 29, 2007 04:19      Profile for fs   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I tried the vegan thing in college, of course given the general college lifestyle, my nutrition suffered even more than your average college students. (Only one flavor of Ramen!)

I'm happy being a lacto-ovo vegetarian, and living here (Sweden) I'm more confident that the animals aren't being mistreated to the extent they sometimes are in the US. (More strict legislation in the EU governing animal husbandry practices.)

One thing about being here, there is a lot less cheese in my diet. Animal-derived rennet is present in almost all of it.

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Icon 1 posted January 29, 2007 09:15      Profile for ScholasticSpastic     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
fs:
(More strict legislation in the EU governing animal husbandry practices.)

I assure you: not all American farmers are bad husbands to their animals. I know a couple who are quite nice to their four-legged spouses.

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"As in repeating a well-known song, so in instincts, one action follows another by a sort of rhythm; if a person be interrupted in a song, or in repeating anything by rote, he is generally forced to go back to recover the habitual train of thought..." (Darwin, The Origin of Species)

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Icon 1 posted January 29, 2007 11:16      Profile for Demosthenes     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Grummash:
Now, this is not to say that flesh-eaters are beyond rational thinking, perish the thought, but rather that the decision to forswear meat is one that comes from a deeper place than the intellect.

Man, I thought we geeks valued our smarts. What deeper place should I be delving? Does it have to do with your deities or with Buddha? Does it have to do with the little part of me that wonders if plants can feel pain and we just haven't figured it out yet?

(One has to wonder if you wonder that, too...)

quote:
Getting over the cravings...once you make that "life-choice" there are no cravings. Well, not for meat, anyway.
...just for the vital nutrients that your body was getting from the meat.

So, explain to me that "deeper place" schtick again?

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GrumpySteen

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Icon 1 posted January 29, 2007 11:21      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Demosthenes wrote:
Does it have to do with the little part of me that wonders if plants can feel pain and we just haven't figured it out yet?

Have you been flogging the ferns while nobody was looking?

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Icon 1 posted January 29, 2007 11:33      Profile for ScholasticSpastic     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I've been careful not to cast aspersions at vegetarians because I agree with the eco-energetics of the thing. However, I just have to ask: What's the deal with vegans claiming that eating honey is cruel to bees? Don't they understand that it's a symbiosis? When the hive has a bad year, they are fed by the apiarist to keep the hive viable. Domestic bees are generally happier and healthier than wild bees. How can we even claim that they're captive when the hive wouldn't produce honey if the bees weren't allowed to leave?

On the same vein, why do vegans think it's okay to drive cars? Don't they notice what can often be found along the side of the road? Don't they realize that the green blob on the windshield used to be alive until they so cruelly slammed into it?

How do vegans justify using paper? All that mercury leaches into rivers and lakes, poisoning innumerable fish and amphibians and leading to long, painful deaths by heavy metal toxicity.

I could go on, but my point is made: our society is structured such that, regardless of our convictions, we participate in the wholesale slaughter of cute, furry animals. (Yes, I DO consider bugs, especially honeybees, cute, furry animals.)

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"As in repeating a well-known song, so in instincts, one action follows another by a sort of rhythm; if a person be interrupted in a song, or in repeating anything by rote, he is generally forced to go back to recover the habitual train of thought..." (Darwin, The Origin of Species)

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Stereo

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Icon 12 posted January 29, 2007 11:45      Profile for Stereo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Demosthenes:
quote:
Originally posted by Grummash:
Now, this is not to say that flesh-eaters are beyond rational thinking, perish the thought, but rather that the decision to forswear meat is one that comes from a deeper place than the intellect.

Man, I thought we geeks valued our smarts. What deeper place should I be delving?
Genes, maybe? [Big Grin]

(I suddenly remember that Futurama episode when they ended up deciding it was wrong to eat smart beings, but still ate a "stupid" dolphin... [evil] )

Now, more to the topic, I wouldn't mind paying more for ethically raised and killed animals. I can afford it. Wich raises a question, for those who stopped eating meat for ethical reasons: if an animal had been treated well from birth to death, would you eat its meat/eggs/milk?

Also, are you ready to forsake leather and wool? (One has to be consistent in one's set of belief, I guess.)

And finally, a question for all: knowing that about 50% of all produced food ends up never being eated (of course, the real percentage varies from a place to another), wouldn't you think it would be smarter to the planet to try and reduce your own wasting of food? (I know I am guilty of that, my fridge is half-full with food gone bad - I need to clean it up, then I'll make an effort to eat what's in it before buying more.) Are you ready to buy less-than-perfect fruits and vegetables (when it's really just cosmetic defaults, not half-rotten, of course)? Do you dutifully eat everything you buy before it turns bad (given it's eatable)?

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Eppur, si muove!

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Grummash

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Icon 1 posted January 29, 2007 14:05      Profile for Grummash     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Demosthenes:

quote:Originally posted by Grummash:
Now, this is not to say that flesh-eaters are beyond rational thinking, perish the thought, but rather that the decision to forswear meat is one that comes from a deeper place than the intellect.

Man, I thought we geeks valued our smarts. What deeper place should I be delving? Does it have to do with your deities or with Buddha? Does it have to do with the little part of me that wonders if plants can feel pain and we just haven't figured it out yet?

(One has to wonder if you wonder that, too...)


I realise I have committed that cardinal sin of debate...the crude generalisation... but this comment does really stem from a combination of my own personal experience and anecdotal evidence gathered from an admittedly small number of conversations.

For myself, I understood the economics/efficiency arguments in favour of vegetarian food production long before I stopped eating meat. I also spent some time exploring free-range, organic, welfare-centred types of meat production. This type of meat was fine for a while, although I had to reduce my consumption a little due to the higher price. However, I simply reached a point where I could no longer countenance unneccessary killing just to provide my food.

You could call this an emotional decision, or a spiritual one (depending how arsey you want to sound) but it is definitely a product of my beliefs.

Don't get me wrong, if I was stranded in the middle of nowhere and the choice was to either eat our furry friends or die, then reluctantly it would be the beasties on the barbie. However, living in the UK there really is no need to kill anything in order for me to have a good dinner.

Other people I have talked to have had a similar experience, and hence my generalisation. If there is anyone out there who decides to embrace vegetarianism for purely intellectual reasons... good on ya!

oh.. and Demo..(if I may call you that ?) the plants & pain thing is a bit of a worry! [ohwell]

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...and yet, across the gulf of space, minds immeasurably superior to ours regarded this earth with envious eyes...

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Ashitaka

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Icon 1 posted January 30, 2007 04:11      Profile for Ashitaka     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
So I have been lurking in this thread since its inception and I finally have something to add. well a question for those here.

Do snails count on the forbidden foods list? A friend of mine brought in a cream snail soup for everyone at lunch today. It was delicious.

From the ethical standpoint, the snails are not really mistreated, nor do they have the brains feel mistreated. Nor does thier production harm the enviorment.

From the diet concerns, they are healthy to eat, low in fat and not really made of a meat but they are in the animal kingdom. So would y'all eat them? Theoretically that is.

p.s. I have teh recipe if anyone wants it but it takes two week to prepare teh snails properly unless you can find already prepared snails at your grocer.

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Xanthine

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Icon 1 posted January 30, 2007 07:22      Profile for Xanthine     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Ashitaka, the hardcore vegans won't even eat honey, so I think snails are out.

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And it's one, two, three / On the wrong side of the lee / What were you meant for? / What were you meant for?
- The Decemberists

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Icon 1 posted January 30, 2007 09:14      Profile for ScholasticSpastic     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Xanthine:
Ashitaka, the hardcore vegans won't even eat honey, so I think snails are out.

Yeah, I still don't get that. We're NICE to bees. They are the most coddled domestic animal of them all. You can't even say we slaughter the older bees to keep production up.

I'm even kind of happy about the whole Africanized-bee thing because I'm sick of watching ignorant little snot-nozed brats squish beautiful Apis melifora because they're afraid they might get stung. With Africanized bees we can now weed out those kids' genes right away!

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"As in repeating a well-known song, so in instincts, one action follows another by a sort of rhythm; if a person be interrupted in a song, or in repeating anything by rote, he is generally forced to go back to recover the habitual train of thought..." (Darwin, The Origin of Species)

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Nitrozac

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Icon 1 posted January 30, 2007 10:40      Profile for Nitrozac   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
The snail question: Snails are not part of a vegan diet. Neither are oysters, clams, scallops, slugs, bugs.

My vegan rule of thumb:
#1. I don't eat anything that can move on its own. (ATCMOIO). I don't consider growing as moving.

#2. I don't eat anything that comes out of or grows on ATCMOIO, for example, dairy, eggs, and honey.

#3. I don't eat anything that exists due to products and processes that use (ATCMOIO), for example, white sugar.

#4. I avoid eating foods that aren't organic; meaning foods that have been grown using pesticides and herbacides. Mainly because these chemicals are harmful to the body.

#5. I avoid as much as possible; food additives, persavatives, and colors that are natural or unnatural. Again because of their harmful effects to the body.

#6. I avoid spending money in grocery stores, and would rather spend it in healthfood stores in order to support businesses with that provide good selection of vegan and organic foods.

#7. I more or less avoid eating in restaurants due to my anxiety about not knowing what has happened or gone into my meal, and to avoid cross contamination with dairy, eggs, meat or meat grease or juices, etc. There are no vegan restaurants in my area, only vegan society potlucks which I haven't checked out. I don't know if I want to, really, but I'd probably enjoy meeting other vegans.

So, basically what I do is buy organic fruits, vegeatables, grains, and legumes, and soymilk and soy products at the health food store, and make my meals at home. It's acutally quite simple, very healthy. Also I've noticed a couple of bonuses; my cooking skills have improved and I'm saving a significant amount of money! [thumbsup]

More vegan lifestyle changes I've made:
As I'm using up cosmetics, clothing, and cleaning products, I'm replacing them with vegan cosmetics, clothing and eco-friendly cleaning products.

Also due to my new values I've been adjusting my investments accordingly. I avoid investing in non-ethical sectors and invest in sectors that save human lives or are part of the solution or at least isn't hurting anything.

Think what you will of me and my values and actions, it's my right to do what I want for what ever reasons I have. And, if I have managed to influence others to do the same, then that's great! [Razz]

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Icon 1 posted January 30, 2007 11:28      Profile for Stereo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Before I forget, you may already know it, but just to be sure: brown sugar (well, the common brands, anyway) is actually white sugar with molasse.

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Eppur, si muove!

Galileo Galilei

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Icon 1 posted January 30, 2007 11:31      Profile for drunkennewfiemidget     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Nitrozac:
Think what you will of me and my values and actions, it's my right to do what I want for what ever reasons I have. And, if I have managed to influence others to do the same, then that's great! [Razz]

You're absolutely right, it is. In the same vein, make sure you appreciate everyone else's choices to eat steak, foie gras, fish, lobster, or whatever else they may wish to legally consume.
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GrumpySteen

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Icon 14 posted January 30, 2007 12:56      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Nitrozac wrote:
Think what you will of me and my values and actions, it's my right to do what I want for what ever reasons I have.

[Applause]

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Icon 1 posted January 30, 2007 13:11      Profile for dragonman97   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by drunkennewfiemidget:
quote:
Originally posted by Nitrozac:
Think what you will of me and my values and actions, it's my right to do what I want for what ever reasons I have. And, if I have managed to influence others to do the same, then that's great! [Razz]

You're absolutely right, it is. In the same vein, make sure you appreciate everyone else's choices to eat steak, foie gras, fish, lobster, or whatever else they may wish to legally consume.
Let me second newf: I haven't been at all concerned about how you go about eating or anything of the sort. However, I have been troubled by your character attacks on others, intended or not (telling people they can't be 'enlightened' otherwise is rude).

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Nitrozac

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Icon 1 posted January 30, 2007 13:41      Profile for Nitrozac   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
dragonman: I didn't tell people they can't be 'enlightened'. Look back at all my posts and you'll see that, never did I use the word 'enlighted' and never did I suggest that I was competing with you guys for who is more enlighted. I think you got that impression from reading Demo's posts to my posts which were contstrewed, which is why I didn't counter-attack her attacks on me, personally, because I thought she was trolling me at that point. (Sorry Demos, but that's how I interepretted that.)

As for appreciating other's choice to eat meat, I don't have to do that. I don't think people are bad who eat meat, I do think their behaviour is sucks, and I have a right to think that if I want. I also have a right to draw boundaries of my meat, dairy and egg eating loved ones; if I don't want to join them in a meal where they're choosing to eat animals or their excretions, I don't have to! I don't have to sit there and say "oh, it's ok if you chow down on that BBQ carcass, it doesn't bother me", like I used to. Yeah, it bothers me now, and if they want to eat with me, they are just gonna have to deal with it, otherwise we can visit in a non-meal setting.

Side note: Newfiemidg: I do, however understand the heritage in Newfoundlanders fishing. From what I understand, newfies had hard lives, and struggled, but a culture sprang from it, and the newfie culture and society should be protected. I'm also under the impression that it was when the Canadian government sold out the fishstocks to foreign countries who basically plundered the waters of the oceans to point where it's overfished and not coming back, thereby displacing newfoundlanders and stealing their livlihood. I think that the Candadian government has a debt owing to newfoundlanders and an apology as well. IMHO.

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dragonman97

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Icon 1 posted January 30, 2007 14:18      Profile for dragonman97   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Nitrozac:
dragonman: I didn't tell people they can't be 'enlightened'. Look back at all my posts and you'll see that, never did I use the word 'enlighted' and never did I suggest that I was competing with you guys for who is more enlighted. I think you got that impression from reading Demo's posts to my posts which were contstrewed, which is why I didn't counter-attack her attacks on me, personally, because I thought she was trolling me at that point. (Sorry Demos, but that's how I interepretted that.)
...

Actually, you said:
One other point of Vegan-ness; I beleive that one cannot be truly aware and in the present unless they are vegan in diet and lifestyle, hence Bhuddism. The vegan diet is the epitomy of eating mindfully. It does wonders spritually, emotionally, and physically.

/me waves hands in the air in a circle; Vegans are one with the mind, body, spirit and planet. [Razz]


I find it hard not to be insulted by that comment. Thankfully, I have a pretty thick skin most of the time, and just don't care. [Smile] (And no, I'm not going to take issue about the typos...)

Oh, and proselytizing Macs were mentioned in the fray somewhere - I put an Apple Store employee very much in his place today [but not at the Apple Store...he was lurking in my office]. I very much detest willful ignorance - saying that Apple is the best, without giving a fair look at the other side is just nonsense. Every argument was nonsense, and he finally found an excuse to leave when he knew he couldn't win. (I pointed out that I like Macs, but that they do in fact have their faults -- and that those faults can be *huge* at times.)

--------------------
There are three things you can be sure of in life: Death, taxes, and reading about fake illnesses online...

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GameGod
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Icon 14 posted January 30, 2007 15:18      Profile for GameGod     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
To go total Vegan is one of the hardest things to do in a world surrouded by chemicals, fast food burger joints, and not to mention the instinct of a human being to eat meat.

Nitrozac, I commend your endeavours. I really wish I had the personal strength to become vegan, as I would really feel better with myself. Problem is I am a growing boy in a workout program that demands protein and tons of calories.

However!! I look at you as a role model in this area, and I wish you total luck, you'll be totally cleansed as a person, totally.

Party on!

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Well...that was fun =)

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littlefish
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Icon 1 posted January 30, 2007 15:50      Profile for littlefish   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Nitro said:
quote:
#5. I avoid as much as possible; food additives, persavatives, and colors that are natural or unnatural. Again because of their harmful effects to the body.
You avoid colours? Because they harm the body?

And just what is a food additive? This type of thinking annoys me intensely. Salt / Sugar / Herbs are all added to food to help with flavour. They are "food additives". Although they are actually food.

Most natural colour chemicals are anti-oxidants, which many view as very healthy. Organic food is not any better for you than non-organic, and is probably less ethical as far as sustainable living goes. Organic farming is less productive for a given area of land.

gamegod said:
quote:
To go total Vegan is one of the hardest things to do in a world surrouded by chemicals
Yes! Get rid of all the chemicals, and then we will be pure! embrace the void!
Posts: 2421 | From: That London | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged


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