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Author Topic: I'm going vegan everyone!
Too Cool To Quit
SuperBlabberMouth!
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Icon 1 posted January 25, 2007 07:32      Profile for Too Cool To Quit     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
The only thing I know about cow poop is that you can't find shrooms in it if it's sitting at the bottom of the pond. Farmers, show love for your local hippie community, make the cows crap on land ...
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Nitrozac

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Icon 1 posted January 25, 2007 08:59      Profile for Nitrozac   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
nerd/nofriends: isn't it hard to receive your compensation when you're dead? [Razz]
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drunkennewfiemidget
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Icon 1 posted January 25, 2007 10:20      Profile for drunkennewfiemidget     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Demosthenes:
quote:
Originally posted by Nitrozac:
Demos, I think thou dost protest too much! [Wink]

I'm sorry you lost respect for me, due to a typo no less. Really, that's a little harsh don't you think? Also I'm of a philosophy where I feel the same about myself no matter what others opinion of me are. To explain further, my self esteem isn't dependant on others, it's dependant on how I feel about myself. That philosophy is what mental health professionals advocate, btw fyi.

I do live up to my reputation. [Wink]

.......

[Applause] [Applause] [Applause]

I must too, add my commendation for this post. Well put.

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Xanthine

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Icon 1 posted January 25, 2007 10:30      Profile for Xanthine     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
The risks involved in commerical fishing are not exactly a secret, especially since the Discovery Channel runs clips about it on their "Most Dangerous Jobs" show. Those that take the job know they are putting their lives on the line. Some may even get off on that. Others are in it for the pay, and/or the lifestyle (live on a boat for a few months, work hard, let the dollars pile up, then spend the off-season goofing around). But they know, and they sign up anyways, and some of them end up paying for the risks they take.

If you want to make a moral argument about not eating fish, center it on the consequences of over-fishing and not on the drowned fishermen. They knew it could happen, they figured it wouldn't happen to them, and they were wrong.

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And it's one, two, three / On the wrong side of the lee / What were you meant for? / What were you meant for?
- The Decemberists

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ScholasticSpastic
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Icon 1 posted January 25, 2007 10:35      Profile for ScholasticSpastic     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I maintain that the important thing is that we all get to make our own dietary choices (for now) and we should respect them. There are gouda dairy farmers and there are some who couldn't brie bothered. There are grade-A beef farmers and there are some who don't veal any morrell responsibility one way or the udder.

Within any industry we will find many who are responsible and many others who are not- to single out any whole industry for disparagement is often as great a mistake as is stereotyping an entire group of people. Except for hippies, who often smell really bad. When the rainbow-hippies came through Utah I could actually smell them before I could see them. I'm not kidding.

That said, as a hippy, I must take a stand against all of the big meat industries. Not too close a stand, though, lest they sue me for sexual harassment. Do you have any idea how difficult it is to harass an entire industrial sector? [Big Grin]

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"As in repeating a well-known song, so in instincts, one action follows another by a sort of rhythm; if a person be interrupted in a song, or in repeating anything by rote, he is generally forced to go back to recover the habitual train of thought..." (Darwin, The Origin of Species)

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Sxeptomaniac

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Icon 1 posted January 25, 2007 10:35      Profile for Sxeptomaniac   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by dragonman97:
My opinions on this matter aside, whilst savoring some coffee, and reading up on last night's spiel, I read this in the Times tonight, and figure it ought to be of interest to a few of you:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/24/dining/24vega.html
(See the "Related" box at top left for recipes.)

Nice find, Dman. I'm also one of those people that just likes all kinds of food, and some of that stuff looks pretty good.

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Let's pray that the human race never escapes from Earth to spread its iniquity elsewhere. - C. S. Lewis

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Xanthine

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Icon 1 posted January 25, 2007 13:30      Profile for Xanthine     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I'm tempted to try out the cupcakes, just to see how they are.

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And it's one, two, three / On the wrong side of the lee / What were you meant for? / What were you meant for?
- The Decemberists

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Grummash

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Icon 1 posted January 25, 2007 14:11      Profile for Grummash     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Nitrozac:
I was kinda hoping there would be more vegetarians and vegans posting... oh well.

I did make a little post in "veggie solidarity".... but I could only manage a few words as I am so weak from living off leaves! [Wink]

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...and yet, across the gulf of space, minds immeasurably superior to ours regarded this earth with envious eyes...

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Nitrozac

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Icon 2 posted January 25, 2007 14:13      Profile for Nitrozac   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Hm that's interesting, it seems that some people don't even care about the human cost, and devastated families so long as they can chow down on over-fished fish! tsk tsk.

These hard-up fisherman take on lucrative but dangerous fishing jobs because they are lucrative. Why are they lucrative? Because there's a demand for it. So, if you refuse fish on grounds of the industry harms humans, or whatever, then there is less demand, then less fishing, then less lucrative jobs. Get it? Come on, that's just sick that anyone would eat fish and think "oh well, the dummies asked for it." Tell that to their kids. Grr. /me throws a baby carrot in your general directions. [Mad]

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Snaggy

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Icon 10 posted January 25, 2007 14:24      Profile for Snaggy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Grummash: lmao! [Big Grin]
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Xanthine

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Icon 1 posted January 25, 2007 14:49      Profile for Xanthine     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
/me eats a baby carrot , along with TFD's lettuce

I've been working out more. As a result, I've been having obsessive thoughts about food. Throw vegetables at me and I will eat them. [Razz]

In my own defense, I don't eat fish (they taste fishy). But I've known fishermen, and one of my HS classmates went up to Alaska for a season after he graduated to work on a fishing boat. He did it out of personal choice. There was nothing about his life that would force him to that decision. He just wanted to, for some unfathomable reason. Just like some people join the military because they want to. It's not an easy life, but I'd be careful about generalizing, especially in a First World country.

It's kind of old, but here's a break-down of some other dangerous jobs. Here's the 2005 statistics. I imagine it's a bit early for the 2006 ones.

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And it's one, two, three / On the wrong side of the lee / What were you meant for? / What were you meant for?
- The Decemberists

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Too Cool To Quit
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Icon 1 posted January 25, 2007 15:25      Profile for Too Cool To Quit     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I've been living off of leaves for a while... but I prefer my leaves VERY well done, before I consume them.

I have a cousin who is a strict vegan and around here that's native speak for "bad hunter." My brother was talking to him at the family Christmas party, and as soon as my brother figured out that he was trying to tell him that he doesn't eat any meat, my brother just blurted out "you're weird as hell, stay away from me." But then my brother is a little close minded, and thinks that his almost all protein diet is the way to go. (but then he's just a knuckle headed wrestler/body builder, so he's going to be a little... arrogant, I guess you would call it.)

I've always thought my cousin was pretty cool, and he's probably the smartest person in the universe (albeit not very humble about it) but I could never go vegan. The food he made and brought was spectacular. I don't know what any of it was, but I was satisfied that it was all vegetables (my relatives use some WEEEIRD meat some times in their cooking), so I ate it. All of it. I don't think anyone else even knew he brought the stuff... But none the less, I have to have some meat in my life, other wise my mind would trick me into thinking I was bird or something, and wouldn't that be a sight to be seen?

My family is nothing but a collective ego trip writhing in a fluid of its own making.

Edit: Reads that post again... GOOD GOD I need to stop using the cosmic bobo to hold my coffee.

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drunkennewfiemidget
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Icon 1 posted January 25, 2007 19:11      Profile for drunkennewfiemidget     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Nitrozac:
These hard-up fisherman take on lucrative but dangerous fishing jobs because they are lucrative. Why are they lucrative? Because there's a demand for it. So, if you refuse fish on grounds of the industry harms humans, or whatever, then there is less demand, then less fishing, then less lucrative jobs. Get it? Come on, that's just sick that anyone would eat fish and think "oh well, the dummies asked for it." Tell that to their kids. Grr. /me throws a baby carrot in your general directions. [Mad]

It's just like any other job. They're paid for the fact that there is danger involved. Just like miners, police, firefighters, etc.

My family is from Newfoundland. Without fishing, I wouldn't be here today.

You're suggesting that I'm sick because I eat fish?

I'm not sure I'm the one in the need of a [shake head] at the moment.

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ScholasticSpastic
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Icon 1 posted January 25, 2007 19:43      Profile for ScholasticSpastic     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I think the strongest argument against eating meat, for those of you who argue against eating meat, is to point out the energy costs of meat vs. veg. If plants use x amount of energy per square foot and we eat x amount of plant per square foot of total plants and herbivores pass on x percent of the total goodness that they obtained from eating the veg, then it just makes more sense per square foot to eat the veg. As for fishing, I believe it's a good thing when we don't overdo it. Trouble is, our population has gotten so large that do always equals overdo. Moderation is no longer an option for us. We overfish, we overhunt, we even overfarm. The ultimate solution isn't dietary fascism, but education. Educated women tend to have fewer children. That's fewer people. Eventually, we might get to the point where we're able to do without overdoing again. Unfortunately, all men are horndogs- with or without education. Myself included (poor sheep). [Eek!]

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"As in repeating a well-known song, so in instincts, one action follows another by a sort of rhythm; if a person be interrupted in a song, or in repeating anything by rote, he is generally forced to go back to recover the habitual train of thought..." (Darwin, The Origin of Species)

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nerdwithnofriends
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Icon 1 posted January 25, 2007 20:06      Profile for nerdwithnofriends     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Nitrozac:
Hm that's interesting, it seems that some people don't even care about the human cost, and devastated families so long as they can chow down on over-fished fish! tsk tsk.

These hard-up fisherman take on lucrative but dangerous fishing jobs because they are lucrative. Why are they lucrative? Because there's a demand for it. So, if you refuse fish on grounds of the industry harms humans, or whatever, then there is less demand, then less fishing, then less lucrative jobs. Get it? Come on, that's just sick that anyone would eat fish and think "oh well, the dummies asked for it." Tell that to their kids. Grr. /me throws a baby carrot in your general directions. [Mad]

Right. And paying police officers to do their thing is just as morally corrupt.

You imply that these fishermen are incapable of thinking for themselves; that they do whatever we want them to do. That sentiment in and of itself smacks of a moral elitism that is, to say the least, disturbing.

There is no legal compulsion for these harvesters of fish to do what they do; there is only the promise of (significant) monetary reimbursement. As such, they are free to provide for those same children you claim to be sympathetic towards using a means that yields a significant amount of money and a moderate risk of death or mutiliation. Of course, they could always go work at McDonald's for minimum wage and fail to properly care for their offspring, and have to unload them on social services and by extension, the rest of us. Somehow I think this would be okay with you, but for libertarians such as myself, it almost makes me physically sick.

I would much rather see a father (or mother) providing for his family and making them well off for a couple years and then dying doing what he has an obligation to do, then live a life of mediocrity and malnourishment for his offspring.

You people mention vegetarianism/veganism for spiritual reasons; fair enough. Who am I to question another man's religion when it does not affect me directly? But consider this: Roman Catholics eat a lot of fish. Not necessarily because they are supposed to, but because it is the traditional meal when meat is banned. SO think on that for a while when you defame fish-eating individuals.

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"The Buddha, the Godhead, resides quite as comfortably in the circuits of a digital computer or the gears of a cycle transmission as he does at the top of a mountain or in the petals of a flower." - Robert M. Pirsig

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garlicguy

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Icon 1 posted January 26, 2007 07:36      Profile for garlicguy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
If only bears were vegans...

 -


[Big Grin]

Edit: More seriously, Nitro, and other vegans/vegetarians, a couple of questions:

Are you planning on doing the total conversion gradually or immediately?

Is is difficult to find tasty options to replace meats and dairy? Is it more expensive?

Anyone care to share how long it takes to get over the meat habit. (Absence of cravings).

I've been cutting down on meat for a while, using chicken or fish, but cutting down there as well. But I am intrigued by the idea of practicing vegan choices for a number of reasons.

Thanks.

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I don't know what I was thinking... it seemed like a good idea at the time.

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Nitrozac

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Icon 10 posted January 26, 2007 09:22      Profile for Nitrozac   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Update on the diet: Going fabulously well, a pound and a half in the first week! Snaggy and I have also been playing Wii sports for an hour a day, it's so fun! I also have been going on walks too. This coming week I'm going to up the exercise. This week I experienced some fatigue in the evening, considering I've significantly reduced my calories, but firing up the Wii and doing the sports perks me up.

No headaches this week = miracle. I haven't experienced any digestive tract discomfort this week, also unusual. I should note that I've managed to avoid processed and restaurant food, I've consumed none or very little artificial ingredients. And, this week I bought all organic fresh vegetables and fruit. I think this makes a difference. The organic celery was very good, not too bitter!

Here's my very own Vegan recipe for your epicurian pleasures;
Creamy Roasted Acorn Squash Soup:
* Roast one whole acorn squash in a 400 degree oven, (place it on a cookie sheet) for about an hour. (tip: opportune time to bake potatoes at the same time.)
* 10 minutes prior to taking out the squash, heat up one cup of water with one veggie bouillion.
* Take out squash, cut in half, scoop out the seeds.
* scoop out the squash and toss into the soup base, simmer for a bit.
* Puree the soup (and squash), return it to the rinsed pot to warm up for a bit.
* add about a half cup of plain soymilk, to taste. Continue heating it.
* Serve! It's delicious and satisfying, hope you like it! [Big Grin]

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Xanthine

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Icon 1 posted January 26, 2007 09:59      Profile for Xanthine     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
That sounds yummy!

Organic veggies DO taste really nice, especially when it's the right season and they didn't get shipped in from somewhere and they're all nice and fresh and okay, I need to stop before I start fantasizing about vegetables again.

GG: I went cold turkey with gratitude and joy (like I said earlier, my mom and I had been going rounds over my preferences for years). My sister and my brother also went cold turkey, but I'll have to ask if they experienced any cravings. Tofu gets a really bad rap - in the end, tofu tastes like whatever you cook it in, and if you don't like the texture of tofu in chunks, you can mash it up.

The big caution about soy is this: unprocessed soy contains a compound that inhibits your ability to digest protein. The process involved in making things like soy sauce, soy milk, tempeh, tofu, and seitan eliminates this inhibitor, but raw soy should be limited.

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And it's one, two, three / On the wrong side of the lee / What were you meant for? / What were you meant for?
- The Decemberists

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Snaggy

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Icon 3 posted January 26, 2007 10:24      Profile for Snaggy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
gg... with all the fake meat options available now it is really easy to go veggie or cut down the meat. Be sure to try different brands, there's a lot of variance out there and, like anything, some brands really suck. I like Yves stuff generally, and the Tofurky people have introduced some good sliced tofurky things.

Tofu is awesome fried up, with soy sause or in stir frys or in speghetti. I much prefer the hard pressed kind, the kind with the consistancy of jello sucks, .... too hard to work with.

The only thing I am missing today while being a "collatoral damage" [Wink] part of Nitro's vegan diet is the milk in tea and coffee. I still haven't found a suitable sub for that, but will be trying rice milks and such.

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ScholasticSpastic
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Icon 1 posted January 26, 2007 10:24      Profile for ScholasticSpastic     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Wow, learned a new thing about soy. I guess I'll have to remove that bean from my trinity now (chocolate, coffee and soy). That's okay, I like orchids and now I have an excuse to promote vanilla to supreme bean statis! All hail the holy bean trinity of coffee, chocolate, and vanilla! (I suppose that if I were a fem-geek I might have listed chocolate first.)

Edit: I can't believe I misspelled status... [shake head]

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"As in repeating a well-known song, so in instincts, one action follows another by a sort of rhythm; if a person be interrupted in a song, or in repeating anything by rote, he is generally forced to go back to recover the habitual train of thought..." (Darwin, The Origin of Species)

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ScholasticSpastic
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Icon 1 posted January 26, 2007 10:25      Profile for ScholasticSpastic     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Snaggy, soy milk is adequate in coffee and SUPERIOR in chai tea. So says me.

--------------------
"As in repeating a well-known song, so in instincts, one action follows another by a sort of rhythm; if a person be interrupted in a song, or in repeating anything by rote, he is generally forced to go back to recover the habitual train of thought..." (Darwin, The Origin of Species)

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Ugh, MightyClub
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Icon 1 posted January 26, 2007 10:44      Profile for Ugh, MightyClub     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by ScholasticSpastic:
Edit: I can't believe I misspelled status... [shake head]

Shhh! You're supposed to just edit it out and not say anything. Don't worry, I'll look the other way while you do it [Wink]

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Ugh!

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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted January 26, 2007 14:55      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Xanthine:
/me eats a baby carrot , along with TFD's lettuce

Speaking of lettuce

quote:
From TFA:
Meat and Livestock Australia is spending $1 million to encourage us to eat lamb this Australia Day, but one animal liberationist is running a "bare bones" campaign against it.

Jodi Ruckley is travelling from Brisbane to Sydney wearing a bikini made of lettuce leaves.

She hopes it will make people think differently about intensive farming practices and embrace a vegetarian lifestyle.

"Lots of people love the costume and I think it's a really great way to draw attention to the serious issue about what's happening to animals in intensive farms in Australia," she said.

Xanthine, Nitrozac, ARJ, this is what's know in the biz as "a hint" [Wink]

[edit] I found this article which has a (fairly SFW) picture.

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If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

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GrumpySteen

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Icon 1 posted January 26, 2007 15:00      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
That would be the Australian branch of the Lettuce Ladies.

I cannot be held responsible for what you're going to see if you click the Broccoli Boys link there, by the way... some things are just not right...

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Worst. Celibate. Ever.

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Zwilnik

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Icon 1 posted January 26, 2007 15:34      Profile for Zwilnik   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Chocolate soy milk rocks [Smile] (when cold anyway, it's horrible if it warms up).

As I was an anti-vegitarian before I went veggie for health reasons (veg don't have the option to run away), a lot of my new diet is fake meat. It varies a lot though. There's a New Zealand brand called Fakin (fakin bacon etc.) that's really good, but it's quite expensive (as is most vegetarian specialist stuff) here.
The Linda McCartney brand is great as well and some of the Quorn stuff. Although the Quorn products are generally better when mixed with other stuff (quorn pieces, quorn swedish balls and Nando's peri-peri sauce + salad in a tortilia wrap is great).

I always found tofu to require a lot of work to make tasty, although smoked tofu cut into strips and marinated overnight in BBQ sauce makes a rather nice pizza topping.

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The Universe is entirely made up of elements.
The most important of which is the element of surprise.

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