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Author Topic: Heh, Dick Cheney
Chesty
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Icon 1 posted February 14, 2006 19:52      Profile for Chesty         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
The error in reporting is due to the fact that most of the peoplw who read the news on television and radio don't really know much of anyhthing. Perfectly excusable - seeing as how they are responsible for molding all the feeble little minds out there.
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Callipygous
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Icon 1 posted February 14, 2006 21:06      Profile for Callipygous     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by quantumfluff:
quote:
Originally posted by Erbo: ... Thankfully, it didn't turn out tragically, as it easily could have. ...
Wrong! If he killed the guy it would be the best thing for our country. It would have reduced Cheney's power. It would be a shame for Whittington, but sometimes the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.
I heard on the news that the man he shot suffered a heart attack, so perhaps this is not so clear cut, and it does make the incident rather more serious.

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Xanthine

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Icon 1 posted February 14, 2006 21:37      Profile for Xanthine     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
As far as heart attacks go, that was pretty fscking minor. Whittington didn't even feel it - they picked it up on the heart monitor. It's not a trivial thing, but its not as serious as the press is making it out to be either.

Cheney doesn't have to kill anyone to get his comeuppance. Libby's already pointing his finger in some interesting directions over the whole Victoria Plame thing.

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Cap'n Vic

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Icon 1 posted February 14, 2006 23:33      Profile for Cap'n Vic     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Xanthine:
As far as heart attacks go, that was pretty fscking minor.

Yes, because after getting shot in the face by your buddy, a shot gun pellet migrating to your heart causing is barely noticable.....especially when you're almost 79 [Roll Eyes]

/Jon Stewart

Xanthine...I think, you of all people should know better that what he is dealing with is more thn a flesh wound, afterall not many organs lie deeper in the body than the heart.

Remember when you smacked into that bus on your bike? It was a big deal for you right? Now imagine being shot, then having a heart attack at age 78. A million thing could go wrong here, he could develop infection from the wound, or the procedures performed on the wound and/or the angoplasty type procedure the did post 'hear attack'. The doctors haven't ruled out going into retrieve the shot near his heart....then there is a whole host of other potental complications from anesthetic, to (again) infection recovery etc etc

The White House, nor the victims family has yet to come out and reassure us that he will pull through this, aside from the jockular humour displayed at the WH press conference before his health turned for the worse.

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Xanthine

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Icon 1 posted February 15, 2006 00:21      Profile for Xanthine     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Vic, I'm not making light of this. I'm simply griping abut inaccurate reporting. If I'm reading the news right/understanding the statement the doctor made on NPR this afternoon, what happoened to Whittington was the pellet got too cozy with some heart muscle and he went into atrial fibrillation. A-fib is serious. It can go south. However, it can also be treated with drugs and when the headlines come out with heart attack, everyone very rightly thinks of someone grabbing their chest and falling over, of CPR and defibrillators, and that's not what happened. It doesn't say in any reports that he had an angioplasty and I have no idea if they'd do that in this case or if they'd just give him drugs to correct the arrhythmia. He did get catherterized, but that's a bit different.

Just annoys me because I saw my share of heart trouble when I was an EMT and lumping everything together as a heart attack, especially with the connotations "heart attack" has, is highly inaccurate. Especially since a-fib can be treated without surgery.

He's been lucky so far. If the pellet had settled against the lower part of his heart he could have died.

The bus incident was a bigger deal for my bike than it was for me.

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And it's one, two, three / On the wrong side of the lee / What were you meant for? / What were you meant for?
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Cap'n Vic

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Icon 1 posted February 15, 2006 08:59      Profile for Cap'n Vic     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Xanthine:

He's been lucky so far. If the pellet had settled against the lower part of his heart he could have died.

Jim, I'm not a doctor

/bones

The 'angioplasty-thing' I was referring to was the procedure they described where they inserted a catheter in his leg to gain access to his heart, my bad.

Bear in mind we are dealing with an elderly man who whas shot in an area with a large amount of critical structures in a relatively small area and given that they have moved him into ICU clearly shows that he isn't improving.

The media is playing the speculation game, which is part of their job especially given that the people holding the bulk (the highest level of Gov't) of the information have bald faced lied to the media and public before and for reasons that have caused tens of thousands of deaths. I find it odd that neither Cheney or the victims family have gone public with comments this adds to the media frenzy ( CNN now reporting that Cheney will speak at 2 pm EST)

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ewomack
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Icon 1 posted February 15, 2006 09:21      Profile for ewomack   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
So here we go again. Someone from one camp screws up and immediately they pull out another example from the "opposing" camp. In this case, it's the Ted Kennedy thing with the old "See? It could be worse! At least we're not that bad!!" red herring example. Why even bother with that? Ted Kennedy's screw-up in 1969 (and yes, it was a BIG one) has nothing to do with Cheney's screw-up in 2005. It's just mindless blathering and polarizing. Neither "side" has the monopoly on saints or sinners.

[shake head]

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drunkennewfiemidget
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Icon 1 posted February 15, 2006 09:29      Profile for drunkennewfiemidget     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by ewomack:
Neither "side" has the monopoly on saints or sinners.

[shake head]

The more things change, the more they stay the same.
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Erbo
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Icon 1 posted February 15, 2006 10:02      Profile for Erbo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by quantumfluff:
If he killed the guy it would be the best thing for our country. It would have reduced Cheney's power. It would be a shame for Whittington, but sometimes the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

In other words, "I'm a lefty moonbat and I don't give a crap who gets hurt or killed, as long as it makes Chimpy McHitlerburton and his Eeeevil RethugliKKKans(TM) look bad." Real nice attitude there, bud. [Roll Eyes] I bet Whittington's family would have something to say about how easily you'd throw him to the wolves...

Look, I'm under no illusion that what Cheney did was anything but unintentional. I seriously doubt he goes around blowing holes in his hunting companions for the fun of it. There's an old saying: "Never attribute to malice what can be more easily explained by stupidity." And stupidity is what we're dealing with here. Cheney's not a stupid man normally, but anyone can have a sudden dumbass attack. I can even accept that Whittington could be considered partly at fault, for not informing Cheney he was walking into the potential line of fire; multiple simultaneous dumbass attacks aren't outside the realm of possibility. I bet there's a lot of hunters who saw the story and thought, "there but for the grace of God go I."

Perhaps the biggest criticism I could make is that he didn't move to defuse this issue ASAP. I mean, he should know that the liberal media would get all over his case if he accidentally left the farking toilet seat up, let alone grazed one of his hunting buddies. He should just have made a statement right away saying, "Okay, it happened, I'm sorry it happened, Whittington knows I'm sorry it happened, I'm picking up the tab for his hospital stay, and there's an end to it." After that, if the media keeps harping on him, they just make themselves look mean. Instead, we get all these dribs and drabs, and the media gets to kick their hype machine into full throttle without penalty. You think he'd know better by now...

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Xanthine

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Icon 1 posted February 15, 2006 10:20      Profile for Xanthine     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
I find it odd that neither Cheney or the victims family have gone public with comments this adds to the media frenzy ( CNN now reporting that Cheney will speak at 2 pm EST)
The victim's family may not want to go public. They've got enough to deal with without reporters and cameras in their face. For their sake I wish the journalists would go away and report about Iraq or something.

What's really striking to me about all of this is that Cheney apparently travels with an ambulance and medical team (who very promptly got to work on Whittington after the accident...there are so many ways this could have been worse that it's not even funny). Is anyone else left under the impression that the VP is not long for this world?

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drunkennewfiemidget
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Icon 1 posted February 15, 2006 10:36      Profile for drunkennewfiemidget     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Xanthine:
Is anyone else left under the impression that the VP is not long for this world?

Here's hoping.
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Cap'n Vic

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Grey_girl

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Icon 1 posted February 15, 2006 11:48      Profile for Grey_girl     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Erbo:
Perhaps the biggest criticism I could make is that he didn't move to defuse this issue ASAP. I mean, he should know that the liberal media would get all over his case if he accidentally left the farking toilet seat up, let alone grazed one of his hunting buddies. He should just have made a statement right away saying, "Okay, it happened, I'm sorry it happened, Whittington knows I'm sorry it happened, I'm picking up the tab for his hospital stay, and there's an end to it." After that, if the media keeps harping on him, they just make themselves look mean. Instead, we get all these dribs and drabs, and the media gets to kick their hype machine into full throttle without penalty. You think he'd know better by now...

I really, really hate it when the tired "liberal media" attack line is trotted out. Just because the media is asking legitimate and genuine questions about the activities of a member of the current administration, it does not also always follow that it is a "liberal media" attack. It is the obligation of the media to raise questions. That's what they are there for.

Sheesh.

I for one want to know why the VP of the country I live in is out in some Texas brush shooting other people. And I think I have a right to know, considering that at least on paper, a law was broken here. I know it is only a stamp on a permit, but as much as Cheney had a responsiblity to use the firearm in a safe manner, he also had the legal obligation to make sure he had his permits in order. While the law broken may seem inconsequential, the willful ignorance of that law that isn't.

And I'm sorry, but a piece of buckshot lodged in someone's heart isn't just a "graze."

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Cap'n Vic

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Icon 1 posted February 15, 2006 12:16      Profile for Cap'n Vic     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Grey_girl:

And I'm sorry, but a piece of buckshot lodged in someone's heart isn't just a "graze."

The 'right wing' should be happy that:

There is proof at least one of them has a heart

-and-

The Cheney story is leading today's real story: Liberating the Iraqi people

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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted February 15, 2006 12:57      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Erbo:
Perhaps the biggest criticism I could make is that he didn't move to defuse this issue ASAP. I mean, he should know that the liberal media would get all over his case if he accidentally left the farking toilet seat up, let alone grazed one of his hunting buddies.

The right are very forgiving of hunting accidents.
If Cheney had shot his load into the guys mouth instead of his chest, they'd be howling for impeachment.

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Sxeptomaniac

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Icon 1 posted February 15, 2006 13:08      Profile for Sxeptomaniac   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Personally, I view this as mostly more of celebrity gossip than huge news. It's of interest, because it's important to know that it truly was an accident, and also not part of a pattern of poor behavior.

I think the media is just mad because they weren't notified right away. There are no signs, according to the stories I've heard, that the story was actively suppressed. Cheney was just not too keen on getting right out there and announcing to the country that he screwed up and shot a friend of his. Gee, why would he procrastinate on doing that?

quote:
Originally posted by Grey_girl:
And I'm sorry, but a piece of buckshot lodged in someone's heart isn't just a "graze."

Not buckshot, birdshot. I double-checked the information I posted earlier, and it was birdshot. A fragment of birdshot traveled in his bloodstream to the heart, and wasn't originally lodged there. He wasn't exactly grazed, but it wouldn't be near as serious if it weren't for the man's age and that random fragment.

See the accident report (PDF):
http://www.cnn.com/2006/images/02/14/CheneyAccidentReport.ap.pdf

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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted February 15, 2006 13:20      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Sxeptomaniac:
I think the media is just mad because they weren't notified right away. There are no signs, according to the stories I've heard, that the story was actively suppressed. Cheney was just not too keen on getting right out there and announcing to the country that he screwed up and shot a friend of his. Gee, why would he procrastinate on doing that?

The Secret Service prevented the local deputy from investigating the incident. That in itself is cause for concern.

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drunkennewfiemidget
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Icon 1 posted February 15, 2006 13:24      Profile for drunkennewfiemidget     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by The Famous Druid:
quote:
Originally posted by Sxeptomaniac:
I think the media is just mad because they weren't notified right away. There are no signs, according to the stories I've heard, that the story was actively suppressed. Cheney was just not too keen on getting right out there and announcing to the country that he screwed up and shot a friend of his. Gee, why would he procrastinate on doing that?

The Secret Service prevented the local deputy from investigating the incident. That in itself is cause for concern.
Of course they did, you don't think the vice-president of the United States has to follow the same laws as everyone else, do you?

Pfft.

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Cap'n Vic

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Icon 1 posted February 15, 2006 13:40      Profile for Cap'n Vic     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Laura Bush killed her boyfriend while running a stop sign.....she was never charged.

/strange but true

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Cap'n Vic

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Interesting read here.

quote:
The real story is already emerging, if you're willing to do a little digging. Cheney and Whittington went hunting with two women (not their wives), there was some drinking, and Whittington wound up shot. Armstrong didn't see the incident but claimed she had, Cheney refused to be questioned by the Sheriff until the next morning, and a born-again evangelical physician has been downplaying Whittington's injuries since they occurrred. Neither the press nor law enforcement seems inclined to investigate.....


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magefile
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Icon 1 posted February 15, 2006 14:08      Profile for magefile     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Xanthine:

What's really striking to me about all of this is that Cheney apparently travels with an ambulance and medical team (who very promptly got to work on Whittington after the accident...there are so many ways this could have been worse that it's not even funny). Is anyone else left under the impression that the VP is not long for this world?

I don't think he's in the best of health ... but I would assume that anyone that high up in the chain of succession would be accompanied by a medical team. As for the "ambulance", well ... whether that's actually an ambulance or just a car that carries his medical team and has a gurney, I don't know.

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garlicguy

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Icon 1 posted February 15, 2006 14:46      Profile for garlicguy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Quoting Steve Martin's perspective on this matter:
quote:
Vice President Dick Cheney, while hunting wild geese in the Rose Garden, accidentally shot President Bush twice, once in the heart and once in the head. "I didn't really shoot the President twice," said Cheney. "The second time I shot him, I was president. It wasn't until my third shot, where I accidentally shot my own foot, that I had shot the president twice.
I was officially injured and unable to govern, when Dennis Hastert came in, and stepped on the butt handle of the rifle causing it to swing up like a rake and shoot his hair off. I guess I'm officially responsible for that too, meaning I shot the acting president for a total of three occupants of the oval office. I'm not proud, but it is a record."

Makes you proud to be a 'Merkin, don't it? [Big Grin]

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I don't know what I was thinking... it seemed like a good idea at the time.

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Callipygous
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Icon 1 posted February 15, 2006 16:52      Profile for Callipygous     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Grey_girl:
[QUOTE]I really, really hate it when the tired "liberal media" attack line is trotted out. Just because the media is asking legitimate and genuine questions about the activities of a member of the current administration, it does not also always follow that it is a "liberal media" attack. It is the obligation of the media to raise questions. That's what they are there for.

[Applause] [Applause]

Of course it is a real story, because he has not been straightforward about it, as even Erbo admits. From an outside perspective the US has possibly the most biased media in the world with the possible exception of Italy where Berlusconi owns almost everything, but these right wing nut jobs won't be happy while there is a single outlet that does more than applaud White House Press releases.

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quantumfluff
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Icon 1 posted February 15, 2006 17:07      Profile for quantumfluff     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Erbo:
quote:
Originally posted by quantumfluff:
If he killed the guy it would be the best thing for our country. ...

In other words, "I'm a lefty moonbat and I don't give a crap who gets hurt or killed, as long as it makes Chimpy McHitlerburton and his Eeeevil RethugliKKKans(TM) look bad." ...
Actually, I'm a fiscal republican and a social democrat. I am registered with neither party, and vote cross lines in most elections. But all that aside, Cheney's an evil shit who should be neutralized. That doesn't mean the democrats are much (any?) better. I subscribe to the Roy Roger's theory. "Congress deadlocked, can't act. - That's the best news I ever heard".
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Sxeptomaniac

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Icon 1 posted February 15, 2006 17:23      Profile for Sxeptomaniac   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by The Famous Druid:
quote:
Originally posted by Sxeptomaniac:
I think the media is just mad because they weren't notified right away. There are no signs, according to the stories I've heard, that the story was actively suppressed. Cheney was just not too keen on getting right out there and announcing to the country that he screwed up and shot a friend of his. Gee, why would he procrastinate on doing that?

The Secret Service prevented the local deputy from investigating the incident. That in itself is cause for concern.
From what I read, the secret service prevented a deputy from entering the building that Cheney was in later that evening. That's a long way from preventing an investigation. It suggests a simple miscommunication, as there really wouldn't be much of a purpose in keeping the deputy away from Cheney at that point in time. If local law enforcement knew about it, the press would know very soon, and Cheney had to be aware that.

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