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Author Topic: Holy Cow...
Callipygous
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Icon 1 posted September 01, 2005 18:27      Profile for Callipygous     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Sea temperatures in the Gulf of Mexico are currently running at 30 C, so Katrina is unfortunately not the last we will see this year.

It is unfortunately an article of faith for Bush supporters that the causes and effects of global warming (if it exists) are unknown, so I doubt that the US will be able to have a rational debate about this. Strange country.

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"Knowledge is Power. France is Bacon" - Milton

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GMx

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Icon 7 posted September 01, 2005 19:41      Profile for GMx     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Update: Fats has been found! [Applause]
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TMBWITW,PB

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Icon 1 posted September 01, 2005 19:49      Profile for TMBWITW,PB     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Now we just need to find the thousands of other missing people. [Frown]

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"Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and it may be necessary from time to time to give a stupid or misinformed beholder a black eye."
—Miss Piggy

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pawn
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Icon 8 posted September 01, 2005 21:26      Profile for pawn     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I know this is a little off topic,but...

Two local radio stations(in edmonton alberta) have pulled the song "New Orleans is sinking" from their play lists. They have done this because they feel it is in bad taste to play this song when the city really is sinking.

HUH????

[Confused] [Confused] [Confused] [Confused]

Posts: 413 | From: somewhere over the rainbow | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged
dragonman97

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Icon 1 posted September 01, 2005 21:37      Profile for dragonman97   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Uh...it is in bad taste.

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There are three things you can be sure of in life: Death, taxes, and reading about fake illnesses online...

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supergoo

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Icon 1 posted September 02, 2005 01:38      Profile for supergoo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by pawn:
Two local radio stations(in edmonton alberta) have pulled the song "New Orleans is sinking" from their play lists. They have done this because they feel it is in bad taste to play this song when the city really is sinking.

I see no reason to play it at this time. To play a song like that right now would be like a Diet Coke: tasteless.

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Y los sueños, sueños son.

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drunkennewfiemidget
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Icon 1 posted September 02, 2005 06:04      Profile for drunkennewfiemidget     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Sorry, I think pulling the song is nothing short of absolute NONSENSE.

What happened in LA is terrible, and I wouldn't wish it upon anyone, but whether or not that song gets any air time isn't going to change anything.

Posts: 4897 | From: Cambridge, ON, Canada | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
GameMaster
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Icon 1 posted September 02, 2005 08:04      Profile for GameMaster   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Alright, I'll grant you that hurricanes are, in part, caused by warmer waters. I've already said that it is undeniable that there is a current warming trend; but there is a huge corralation between the solar activity and the warming trend, there is a huge corraltion between a lot of other factors and the warming trend:

http://solar-center.stanford.edu/sun-on-earth/glob-warm.html
http://www.cambodianonline.net/homeearthchanges.htm
http://www.xs4all.nl/~carlkop/solar.html
etc. etc. etc.

The sun is the source of the vast majority of energy on earch, and plays a huge role in the "man made warming trend theory. I think it is worth investigating other potential causes as well, while taking some actions "just in case" it is really us.

It is unscientific to stop research into other causes, because you think you've found one contributing factor. If the trend isn't curved if/when we all "get green" and we've not been looking for the other factors then we're dead. People have been saying that what we're doing to our enviroment will end up killing all of us, long before we knew about green house gasses and the like -- there have been theories that we'd freeze to death by a man made ice age, that we'd burn the planet to a crisp, that we'd bring down the rath of god ... We're still here.

There is a warming trend, and as of yet the cause and implications are not fully known. I think we should do things to begin reducing our green house gass emittions, work on developing a renable energy source (I'm still voting for Solar Powered Sattilites); but not lose our heads over it, and certianly not think that it will solve the problem in and of itself. Also, remeber that reducing pollution was one of the reasons why we started using automobiles in the first place.

I think that it's a good idea for stations to pull the song, only because some of their listeners may agree with DMan. I'm not familiar with the song, but just because the city is sunk doesn't mean it is to play a song that says it's sinking -- seems like it'd be rather topical. If the song makes light of deaths caused by sinking the city, then I would find it tastless, too; but, I don't know the song from Fred. In short, it's probably good bussiness to pull the song so that you don't step on toes and lose listeners (who are your product after all).

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alfrin
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Icon 1 posted September 02, 2005 08:10      Profile for alfrin     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
You know what's odd, everywhere people are complaining about warmer weather, well here in Reno/Sparks Nevada, it's been getting cold. We had freak winter storms last winter (three storms came in from three places and met right above use), school's around Washoe county schools we're closed for 4 days, our Governer said if there was one more snow day he would declare a State of Emergency (which would also have let those students not have to make up the days). Even Vegas got snow that winter. This summer it barely ever got over 100, honestly it seems like a cold wave in my view.

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Stereo

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Icon 1 posted September 02, 2005 08:30      Profile for Stereo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by alfrin:
You know what's odd, everywhere people are complaining about warmer weather, well here in Reno/Sparks Nevada, it's been getting cold. We had freak winter storms last winter (three storms came in from three places and met right above use), school's around Washoe county schools we're closed for 4 days, our Governer said if there was one more snow day he would declare a State of Emergency (which would also have let those students not have to make up the days). Even Vegas got snow that winter. This summer it barely ever got over 100, honestly it seems like a cold wave in my view.

Yeah, that's the kind of things a global warming causes (according to models). Changes of wind direction and local weather goes crazy. You are probably getting cold air from the mountains, instead of the warm air from inland as you used to.

Now, GM, deny all you want. But I prefer to prepare for a problem that may not arise rather than the other way.

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Eppur, si muove!

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GameMaster
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Icon 1 posted September 02, 2005 08:32      Profile for GameMaster   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Now, GM, deny all you want. But I prefer to prepare for a problem that may not arise rather than the other way.
That's what I'm saying. That's why I'm pushing SPS, but I don't think we should stop looking.

And did you look at the data comparing solar activity and the warming trend? We may curve our fuels to be more "green," and still have a huge problem.

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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted September 02, 2005 14:09      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Stereo:
Yeah, that's the kind of things a global warming causes (according to models). Changes of wind direction and local weather goes crazy. You are probably getting cold air from the mountains, instead of the warm air from inland as you used to.

Another example: There's a real risk that global warming could shut down the Gulf Stream, as the currents backflow depends heavily on ocean temperatures in the north atlantic.

This would have 2 effects...

1. Even warmer ocean temperatures in the south, where hurricanes are born.

2. London gets a climate more like Moscow or Quebec (have a look at a map: they're on about the same latitude).

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If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

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Serenak

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Icon 1 posted September 02, 2005 14:56      Profile for Serenak     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
GM:

I don't concur with all of your arguments and personally am of the opinion that (whatever the cause) global warming is a definite reality right now. However one thing I do agree with is that just because we/someone/some meterologists/whatever think they have found the cause we should stop investigating other potential factors (if for no other reason than global climate is a massively complex system that we can hardly claim to really understand). To believe we know even a fraction of what is happening is not only arrogant but just plain stupid.

As I understand it most/all models of climate change indicate one thing though - the first results of global warming are massively disrupted weather patterns with a large increase in "extreme" and freak weather (probably for 100-200 years minimum) before new patterns begin to establish themselves.

One thing that does have quite frightening repercussions is the theory of "global shading" which though new has had some pretty good evidence put forward to support its postulations. Basically this theory says that global warming through Carbon Dioxide, Methane, etc. emissions is real but its effects are not as obvious as models suggest it should be because the smogging of our atmosphere is masking its effects by artificially increasing shading and reflectance in the upper atmosphere thus allowing less sunlight to actually reach the ground.

On the surface this seems to say that dirty (particulate, etc.) pollution helps compensate for the "greenhouse effect" of the "invisible" pollution. The sting is of course that this effect won't last forever because 1) we are reducing our dirty emissions and overall have been doing for 50 or so years or more. 2) not all of the "missing" heat is actually being reflected out into space, some of it is being stored in the upper atmosphere (which can only hoard up so much) adding to disruptions in overall global patterns.

If this theory is correct (or even has any merit at all) its most frightening implication is that although global warming is real its full effects have been masked by this "shading" and that we could be in a much, much more perilious situation than we have so far realised and that there is a very real danger of a sudden "tipping" where the effect of heating suddenly overcomes the "protective" shading effect and we suffer a very rapid "catch up" from where we are to a seriously much hotter world...

As I say this is a relatively new theory but I have seen some reasonably convincing supporting "evidence" that makes it at least a credible postulation in my mind (if a frightening one).

[Eek!]

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"So if you want my address - it's No. 1 at the end of the bar, where I sit with the broken angels, clutching at straws and nursing my scars..."

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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted September 02, 2005 16:10      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by GameMaster:
It is unscientific to stop research into other causes, because you think you've found one contributing factor.

GM: I'm not aware of anyone who's advocating a ban on non-greenhouse climate research.

I am, however, aware of lots of people who emphatically deny greenhouse warming, and vigorously oppose any attempt to reduce greenhouse emissions. Some even stoop to persecuting scientists who tell them what they don't want to hear. Many of these people work for the fossil-fuel companies, or their subsidiary, the Republican Party.

It's all very reminiscent of the tobacco lobby in the 1980s, screaming that "corelation != causation" and thrashing about wildly in search of "other factors" which could explain the cancer statistics. Anything to avoid getting off the very profitable, but very deadly, gravy train.

Yes, there are several factors that contribute to climate, just as there are several factors that contribute to cancer risk, but that's no excuse for covering your ears and singing "la-la-la-la I can't hear you" whenever anyone wants to do something about a very large and proven danger.

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If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

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mark717
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Icon 1 posted May 28, 2007 21:20      Profile for mark717     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Colder in South Pole last year than normal, plus a decrease in tornadoes since 1950 of F3s or above. An increase on very small ones because of Doppler radar. That's technology not climate.
All helps prove without doubt global warming will drown us all who live by the coast unless we switch to bio diesel.

Posts: 8 | From: New zealand | Registered: May 2007  |  IP: Logged


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