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Author Topic: Flag Burning.. How do you feel?
bull3t
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Icon 5 posted June 22, 2005 13:36      Profile for bull3t     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I personally feel that the right wing reich in america should all go to hell and stop taking away our freedoms, the very thing they claim to be protecting. first its flag burning, then its peaceful protest, then its our right to choose... these guys don't know when to quit, do they.

oh, if you feel differently, read the constitution... we're given UNALIENABLE rights as citizens, the freedom of expression is one.

PS, if anyone here says that i am unpatriotic, they are a fool. i love my country, and thats why i fight to protect our constitutional rights.

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dragonman97

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Icon 1 posted June 22, 2005 14:45      Profile for dragonman97   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Feel? I have no feelings. I have but only one statement - you are a troll, who is seeking nothing more than to start a flame war. I would recommend everyone else here continue to stay quiet on the matter to keep some peace around here.

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TMBWITW,PB

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Icon 1 posted June 22, 2005 15:48      Profile for TMBWITW,PB     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Has the flag-burning thing been a problem recently? I haven't heard anything about it. Perhaps if you could direct us to the source of your outrage over our inalienable rights being taken away. [Wink]

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Erbo
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Icon 1 posted June 22, 2005 21:09      Profile for Erbo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I'm on the "right wing" in many respects, but I have no real objections to flag-burning. Our country is more than just a piece of colored cloth; if someone wants to burn the flag and thinks they're somehow damaging the country thereby, I say, let 'em make fools of themselves. We'll have the last laugh. And at least our enemies are going to the trouble of identifying themselves for us...

Besides, what's the accepted way to dispose of flags that are too worn to fly? Burning. They just had a flag-burning ceremony over at the cemetery near our home a couple of weeks ago; from the news reports, it was a very dignified affair.

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Erbo
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Icon 1 posted June 22, 2005 23:25      Profile for Erbo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I quote Charles Johnson, of the eminent conservative blog Little Green Footballs:
quote:
We all benefit when people who publicly burn the US flag reveal themselves and their agendae. In the age of the internet, this is more true than ever.

I donít want to try to stop them, and force them underground. The key fact about these types: theyíre schtoopid. They canít help it.

Donít get in their way.

More free speech, not less. Always the best policy, for so many reasons.

I can get behind this.

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Sxeptomaniac

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Icon 1 posted June 22, 2005 23:46      Profile for Sxeptomaniac   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by dragonman97:
you are a troll, who is seeking nothing more than to start a flame war. I would recommend everyone else here continue to stay quiet on the matter to keep some peace around here.

If he was a halfway decent troll, he would lead with an issue that wasn't essentially dead a decade ago (if it can be considered to have had any real life to begin with). [Roll Eyes]

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Let's pray that the human race never escapes from Earth to spread its iniquity elsewhere. - C. S. Lewis

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GameMaster
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Icon 1 posted June 23, 2005 04:39      Profile for GameMaster   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
<Tounge in cheek>
Yes, it should be illegal... Think of the enviromental impact of the combustion which is caused in the burning of the flag. Think of all the violence on TV that children have to suffer through when the news airs the riots that happen every time a flag is burned. <oblig. Simplson's quote>Think of the Children! Everybody, please, think of the children!</Simpson's></Tounge>

Honestly, this is a clear case of freedom of speech. I may not agree with what flag-burners have to say, but I'll be darned if I have to requote this old cliche to defend their rights to do it.... Or something...

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TheMoMan
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Icon 1 posted June 23, 2005 04:57      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
D-Man____________Apparently yesterday June 22, 2005 that bunch of clowns that we chose to represent us in Washington have voted a Anti Flag Burning Amendment. The next step is for passage in the US. Senate Then If my Civics classes from Forty years ago are still valid it must be approved by Thirty Eight states to become valid. Why are so many people afraid of some nut case. I too believe that it is a Freedom of speach issue and I have gone and crawled through the mud to defend our Constitution

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spungo
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Icon 1 posted June 23, 2005 05:36      Profile for spungo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Sxeptomaniac:
quote:
Originally posted by dragonman97:
you are a troll, who is seeking nothing more than to start a flame war. I would recommend everyone else here continue to stay quiet on the matter to keep some peace around here.

If he was a halfway decent troll, he would lead with an issue that wasn't essentially dead a decade ago (if it can be considered to have had any real life to begin with). [Roll Eyes]
edit: nothing to see here, folks. (Oops!) [Wink]

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GMx

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Icon 12 posted June 23, 2005 09:47      Profile for GMx     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
The Congress is pushing this through because they have solved all the other problems before them and they don't have anything to do before the next taxpayer funded "factfinding" mission to study golf courses of tropical counties.
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Erbo
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Icon 1 posted June 23, 2005 11:27      Profile for Erbo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by TheMoMan:
Apparently yesterday June 22, 2005 that bunch of clowns that we chose to represent us in Washington have voted a Anti Flag Burning Amendment. The next step is for passage in the US. Senate Then If my Civics classes from Forty years ago are still valid it must be approved by Thirty Eight states to become valid.

The likelihood is it won't clear all those hurdles. It needs a 2/3 majority in the Senate, which is gonna be hard to come by given the current balance there. Then 38 of the 50 state legislatures have to ratify it, which I can't see happening. The amendment process is a fairly effective "bozo filter" to ensure that the Constitution doesn't get loaded down with a bunch of crap. The one exception is the 18th Amendment, which is also the only one that was repealed (by the 21st), making it the exception that proves the rule.

Please bear in mind that these are politicians, and they really care about one thing and one thing only: getting elected, then getting re-elected.

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Alien Investor
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Icon 10 posted June 23, 2005 16:22      Profile for Alien Investor     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Pretty much with Erbo on this.

Here's a list:

Burning an American flag

Burning copies of textbooks that talk about evolution

Holding a parade wearing Nazi uniforms down the main street of a town where the half the people are Jewish

Burning a cross (your cross, on your land) while wearing a white sheet and a hood

I'm all for the right of people to practice the first three things. I haven't figured out the fourth one yet, but I'm leaning towards favoring the legalization of that, too.

It's easy to be pro-speech on things that I agree with. It's also easy to be pro-speech on disagreeable speech that has little power. Where does one draw the line? I'm really hostile to the "free speech for things that I agree with but not for things that really offend me" position, so I push the line really far out. But there's some awfully vile scum in this world.

My favorite free speech story: the Ku Klux Klan applied to the state of Missouri to join their adopt-a-highway program. The state turned them down, the KKK sued, the KKK won. A court ordered the state of Missouri to give the KKK a section of highway complete with the signs indicating the KKK's adoption of that highway.

The Missouri Department of Transportation allocated a strech of I-55 near St. Louis and posted the required signs. And the Missouri Legislature passed a bill to rename that stretch of I-55 ... the Rosa Parks Memorial Highway.

http://www.detnews.com/2000/nation/0005/24/a01-62252.htm

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magefile
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Icon 1 posted June 23, 2005 20:48      Profile for magefile     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I agree with AI, except that the last example could (depending on the circumstances) fall under the category of "inciting violence/crime".

Asshole-ishness should not imply illegality.

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alfrin
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Icon 1 posted June 23, 2005 22:24      Profile for alfrin     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Alien Investor:

My favorite free speech story: the Ku Klux Klan applied to the state of Missouri to join their adopt-a-highway program. The state turned them down, the KKK sued, the KKK won. A court ordered the state of Missouri to give the KKK a section of highway complete with the signs indicating the KKK's adoption of that highway.

Not trying to inspire another flame war, but I feel as if people these days are diluted by the media to the point where they don't even know why the KKK was originally formed for, was formed to try to bring back democracy to the South after the civil war, it was disbound in 1869 (someone check me).
Though nowadays they are the group you hear about in the news, but you can't even talk about the old KKK without getting looked at in horror.

Basically what i'm getting at it that the media has a knack of making anything look as bad as possible. People have rights, I may not support what they say or support, but then again they feel the same about the way I think. So no one should be the judge of what people do or say (within legal parameters).

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bull3t
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Icon 1 posted June 24, 2005 08:25      Profile for bull3t     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by dragonman97:
Feel? I have no feelings. I have but only one statement - you are a troll, who is seeking nothing more than to start a flame war. I would recommend everyone else here continue to stay quiet on the matter to keep some peace around here.

for one, i am not a troll. secondly, this is not a dead issue, don't you people watch the damn news?

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"I donít care if people hate my guts; I assume most of them do. The important question is whether they are in a position to do anything about it."
-William S Burroughs

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bull3t
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Icon 1 posted June 24, 2005 08:28      Profile for bull3t     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by TMBWITW,PB:
Has the flag-burning thing been a problem recently? I haven't heard anything about it. Perhaps if you could direct us to the source of your outrage over our inalienable rights being taken away. [Wink]

i have a spelling problem some times [Smile]

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GC's Mosthated.
"I donít care if people hate my guts; I assume most of them do. The important question is whether they are in a position to do anything about it."
-William S Burroughs

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dragonman97

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Icon 1 posted June 24, 2005 08:45      Profile for dragonman97   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by bull3t:
quote:
Originally posted by dragonman97:
Feel? I have no feelings. I have but only one statement - you are a troll, who is seeking nothing more than to start a flame war. I would recommend everyone else here continue to stay quiet on the matter to keep some peace around here.

for one, i am not a troll. secondly, this is not a dead issue, don't you people watch the damn news?
Look at your .sig. You are absoutely a troll - you have no other intention here than to remain "the most hated person here." You have openly been disgustingly rude to the proprietors of this site, exhibited vile behavior, and insulted just about everyone you have the opportunity to (that includes brazen threats of physical violence).

Therefore, please do not be surprised if you understand that I will never expect to see any meaningful content in your posts, and treat any that I see with extreme caution.

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TMBWITW,PB

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Icon 1 posted June 24, 2005 08:57      Profile for TMBWITW,PB     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by bull3t:
quote:
Originally posted by TMBWITW,PB:
Has the flag-burning thing been a problem recently? I haven't heard anything about it. Perhaps if you could direct us to the source of your outrage over our inalienable rights being taken away. [Wink]

i have a spelling problem some times [Smile]
Spelling aside, that was a serious request. If you showed us a recent news article about someone being arrested or ridiculed for burning a flag this would be a more meaningful thread and less likely to be perceived as trolling. Right now it looks like you're pulling a subject out of thin air just to be controversial.

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illuminatus
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Icon 1 posted June 24, 2005 10:01      Profile for illuminatus   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I once respected the American flag and all other symbols of the U.S. Furthermore, I respected the symbols of other sovereigns as well.

The reason I respected these symbolism is the represented the original ideals of the country when it was founded. Unfortunately, this is no longer the case. The symbols now represent corrupt and preverse forms of those original ideals or ideals that are quite the contrary to the original.

Therefore, I could care less if the symbols are destroyed.

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ASM65816
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Icon 3 posted June 24, 2005 10:12      Profile for ASM65816   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Just an observation .....
quote:
(about .sig) "GC's Mosthated"

... Look at your .sig. You are absolutely a troll - you have no other intention here than to remain "the most hated person here."

[Roll Eyes] Wait, I've heard this one before !

quote:
Sleeping Beauty, Tom Thumb and Quasimodo were having a terrible fight.

  "I am the most beautiful person in the world," proclaimed Sleeping Beauty.
  "No, you're not," answered Quasimodo and Tom Thumb.
  "I am the smallest person in the world," shouted Tom Thumb.
  "No, you're not," said Sleeping Beauty and Quasimodo."
  "I am the ugliest person in the world," announced Quasimodo.
  "No, you aren't," replied Tom Thumb and Sleeping Beauty.

  Well, they decided that if the three were to get along, they needed a mediator, and decided that Merlin, clearly the smartest person in the world, would be ideal. Merlin agreed and summoned them all to his palace, where he announced he would meet with them one at a time.

  Sleeping Beauty went in first and not a minute later came out beaming.
  "I am the most beautiful person in the world. Merlin says so."
  In went Tom Thumb and out he came as quickly as had Sleeping Beauty.
  "I am the smallest person in the world. Merlin agrees."
  In goes Quasimodo and he stays a half hour, an hour, an hour and a half.
  Finally, he emerges distraught, muttering, "Who the hell is Janet Reno?"



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Once a proud programmer of Apple II's, he now spends his days and nights in cheap dives fraternizing with exotic dancers....

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Sxeptomaniac

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Icon 1 posted June 24, 2005 14:06      Profile for Sxeptomaniac   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by TMBWITW,PB:
Spelling aside, that was a serious request. If you showed us a recent news article about someone being arrested or ridiculed for burning a flag this would be a more meaningful thread and less likely to be perceived as trolling. Right now it looks like you're pulling a subject out of thin air just to be controversial.

I agree with Peebs, if you want to bring up an issue on current events, that's fine, post a link and a reasonably intelligent argument. Drop the ad hominem and slippery slope fallacies.

quote:
Originally posted by bull3t:
for one, i am not a troll. secondly, this is not a dead issue, don't you people watch the damn news?

If flag burning is such a hot issue, where's the other half? I don't see anyone arguing for the amendment here. You were itching for a flame war, and made an ass of yourself trying to start a fight with a non-existent person.

You definitely have the inalienable right to self expression: You can sound like an idiot if you want. [Roll Eyes]

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Rhonwyyn

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Icon 1 posted June 24, 2005 20:28      Profile for Rhonwyyn   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
IIRC, the US House or Senate debated (and maybe voted on by now) a bill delineating what treatment of the US flag is/isn't acceptable. The original poster may have heard something about it on the news. A discussion on the pros/cons of such legislation might have been interesting, but unfortunately the original poster decided to act like a [insert derogatory term here] and refused to post a relevant link. [Frown]

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ewomack
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Icon 1 posted June 24, 2005 22:42      Profile for ewomack   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Anyone for tennis?

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Eric
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Icon 1 posted June 24, 2005 22:55      Profile for Eric     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
The proposed amendment has been in the national news the whole week, here's a CNN article. The inalienable rights that bull3t is talking about is the first amendment (free speech), which the Supreme Court has ruled covers flag burning. I agree it probably won't pass the 2/3 vote, if it even gets that far.
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Charles
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Icon 1 posted June 28, 2005 22:29      Profile for Charles     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Flag burning is a touchy subject at best. If you are going to burn your country's flag maybe you should not live in a county that you have such little respect for that you feel the need to burn the flag.

I guess you should have the right to if you must. it is just something that should not be done IMO.

You should be able to express yourself and your frustration with your government without setting the flag on fire.

This is my point of view on the matter, as a U.S. Marine.

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