homeGeek CultureWebstoreeCards!Forums!Joy of Tech!AY2K!webcam

The Geek Culture Forums


Post New Topic  New Poll  Post A Reply
my profile | directory login | | search | faq | forum home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» The Geek Culture Forums   » News, Reviews, Views!   » Your News!   » Hey, hey! Ho, ho! Sexy cheerleading has got to go! (Page 3)

 - UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!  
This topic comprises 4 pages: 1  2  3  4 
 
Author Topic: Hey, hey! Ho, ho! Sexy cheerleading has got to go!
jordanv
Assimilated
Member # 3189

Member Rated:
5
Icon 1 posted May 07, 2005 16:11      Profile for jordanv     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Yes , and left wing /right wing distinctions are not liberal vs conservative.

Use the political compass (politicalcompass.org) for a better measure of someone's political position.

Posts: 364 | From: a house (in Sydney) | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
HalfVast

Member # 3187

Icon 1 posted May 07, 2005 19:49      Profile for HalfVast     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Jordanv wrote:

Yes , and left wing /right wing distinctions are not liberal vs conservative.

Use the political compass (politicalcompass.org) for a better measure of someone's political position.


Looks like a online rehash of Pournelle's political axes from 1986.
Posts: 795 | From: In the mitten around the abductor pollicis brevis. | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
The Famous Druid

Gold Hearted SuperFan!
Member # 1769

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted May 07, 2005 23:42      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
It occurs to me, this new law in Texas (remember the Texas cheerleader law?) probably means that they'll be needing a team of cheerleading inspectors who will travel around the state, visiting sporting events, and checking the cheerleading for compliance. Probably involves measuring hemlines, checking that the tops are not too revealing, and gathering video evidence of any overly-suggestive routines.

Where do I apply?

--------------------
If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

Posts: 10669 | From: Melbourne, Australia | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
Relativistic
Geek Larva
Member # 3876

Rate Member
Icon 1 posted May 08, 2005 01:33      Profile for Relativistic     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by jordanv:
So explain again where you got your mandate to enforce your beliefs on mine?

Probably from my conscience. The same place where you know deep down that what I'm saying is true, and that's why it cut so deep that you reacted so defensively over it.

--------------------
There are three kinds of people in the world: those who can count, and those who can't.

Posts: 20 | From: Variable | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged
The Famous Druid

Gold Hearted SuperFan!
Member # 1769

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted May 08, 2005 02:27      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Relativistic:
quote:
Originally posted by jordanv:
So explain again where you got your mandate to enforce your beliefs on mine?

Probably from my conscience. The same place where you know deep down that what I'm saying is true, and that's why it cut so deep that you reacted so defensively over it.
My own conscience tells me that public nudity, heroin use, and sodomy should be made compulsory.
If you react defensively to my suggestion, that just proves you know deep down that I'm right.

--------------------
If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

Posts: 10669 | From: Melbourne, Australia | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
Zargof McBain
Mini Geek
Member # 3856

Member Rated:
1
Icon 1 posted May 08, 2005 06:03      Profile for Zargof McBain     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by The Famous Druid:
My own conscience tells me that public nudity, heroin use, and sodomy should be made compulsory.

Cool, you've got my vote. [Wink]

--------------------
Smile. It makes people wonder what you're thinking

Posts: 75 | From: A dark place | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged
jordanv
Assimilated
Member # 3189

Member Rated:
5
Icon 1 posted May 08, 2005 06:44      Profile for jordanv     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Relativistic:
]Probably from my conscience. The same place where you know deep down that what I'm saying is true, and that's why it cut so deep that you reacted so defensively over it.

Actually , I don't believe anything "deep down". My views on most issues change quite regularly. I accept that I must by necessity exist, but i dont assume anything else does, and I challenge everything.

Besides, are you suggesting we have some kind of universal moral system?

I disagree entirely. What Christians view as moral for example, especially the issue of victimisation of rape victims, i find deplorable.

Does that mean Christians are wrong and I am right? Yes, but only for me. You can believe whatever you want.

P.S: defensive me is where i throw in Hitler.

Posts: 364 | From: a house (in Sydney) | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
Groggle
Mini Geek
Member # 2360

Member Rated:
3
Icon 1 posted May 08, 2005 10:02      Profile for Groggle     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
There is a fine line in writing "moral" legislation. Back in the 1970s in Canada there was a whole series of prosecutions and appeals over the so-called "obscenity" laws that were used to regulate pornography.

What it boiled down to was that the term "obscene" could not be adequately described in the language of law. While I believe that there are still laws around the topic of "obscenity", they are only applied in the most extreme of cases.

The proposed law in Texas suffers very much from this problem. (At the age of 15, anything female in a tight outfit is "sexy" no matter how it moves)

I appreciate that the routines may well have gone beyond what the community is comfortable with, but that's a matter for the community to take up with the school policy makers, not in law.

Law is a much stronger vehicle, but it requires much stronger definitions of language as well. The so-called "Communications Decency Act" in the 1990s (Aka the "Helms-Burton act, I believe) is a classic example of this kind of law. It is simply unenforcable because the language used in it is so broad that anything can fall under its wing - including this very discussion. (After all, we are talking about sexually suggestive acts...)

Laws only seem to work when some kind of "harm" can be demonstrated. (my morals being offended is not "harm" in any legal sense) All that the texas lawmakers are doing is adding to the reasons for lawyers to make more money. (Given how many politicians are lawyers, one has to wonder if this is a matter of economic self-interest coming to bear?)

Posts: 77 | From: Calgary | Registered: Aug 2003  |  IP: Logged
Danimal
Mini Geek
Member # 2016

Icon 1 posted May 08, 2005 18:56      Profile for Danimal     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Liberal or conservative this is plain dumb legislation. It makes no sense.

What we need is a "Common Sense Party."

--------------------
"Corporate America (or place your country here)" is one of those weird religions that still believes in human sacrifice.

Posts: 87 | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Danimal
Mini Geek
Member # 2016

Icon 1 posted May 08, 2005 18:57      Profile for Danimal     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
That being said, I would like to see a lot more "suggestive cheerleading" in an upcoming JOT. YEAH!!! [crazy] [Big Grin] [Eek!]

--------------------
"Corporate America (or place your country here)" is one of those weird religions that still believes in human sacrifice.

Posts: 87 | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
drunkennewfiemidget
BlabberMouth, a Blabber Odyssey
Member # 2814

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted May 09, 2005 06:06      Profile for drunkennewfiemidget     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by The Famous Druid:
quote:
Originally posted by Relativistic:
quote:
Originally posted by jordanv:
So explain again where you got your mandate to enforce your beliefs on mine?

Probably from my conscience. The same place where you know deep down that what I'm saying is true, and that's why it cut so deep that you reacted so defensively over it.
My own conscience tells me that public nudity, heroin use, and sodomy should be made compulsory.
Sodomy between two consenting adults is just fine. Compulsory though? *cough* [Wink]

But c'mon people, if someone wants to be nude in public, FEEL FREE! [Big Grin]

Posts: 4897 | From: Cambridge, ON, Canada | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
GameMaster
BlabberMouth, a Blabber Odyssey
Member # 1173

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted May 09, 2005 06:17      Profile for GameMaster   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by drunkennewfiemidget:
quote:
Originally posted by The Famous Druid:
quote:
Originally posted by Relativistic:
quote:
Originally posted by jordanv:
So explain again where you got your mandate to enforce your beliefs on mine?

Probably from my conscience. The same place where you know deep down that what I'm saying is true, and that's why it cut so deep that you reacted so defensively over it.
My own conscience tells me that public nudity, heroin use, and sodomy should be made compulsory.
Sodomy between two consenting adults is just fine. Compulsory though? *cough* [Wink]

But c'mon people, if someone wants to be nude in public, FEEL FREE! [Big Grin]

Please don't give Sungo any ideas... I'd feel VERY sorry for his neghbors. [Big Grin] [Eek!] [Big Grin]

--------------------
My Site

Posts: 3038 | From: State of insanity | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
csk

Member # 1941

Member Rated:
5
Icon 1 posted May 09, 2005 18:22      Profile for csk     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by drunkennewfiemidget:
Sodomy between two consenting adults is just fine. Compulsory though? *cough* [Wink]

Umm, in some US states, the definition of sodomy includes oral sex.

/just saying [Wink]

--------------------
6 weeks to go!

Posts: 4455 | From: Sydney, Australia | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Rhonwyyn

Solid Gold SuperFan!
Member # 2854

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted May 09, 2005 19:34      Profile for Rhonwyyn   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by jordanv:

I disagree entirely. What Christians view as moral for example, especially the issue of victimisation of rape victims, i find deplorable.

Could you explain what you meant by this statement? Do you mean that Christians don't think victims of rape are true victims? I'd be happy to point you to many secular and non-secular sources regarding rape and the victim's level of responsibility in the crime. Typically, rape is understood as a violent crime against the victim, and not brought on by any fault of his/her own.

quote:
"Rape is a conscious process of intimidation by which all men keep all women in a state of fear"
Brownmiller, Susan, †Against Our Will: Men, Women and Rape, 1975

Brownmiller is a known feminist, but that blanket statement she uses isn't true. I'm a woman and not in a constant state of fear of rape. Yes, I am glad that when I come home from work in the wee hours of the morning I can park my car in the relative safety of my garage and walk through my lightly fenced backyard to my backdoor without fear of being robbed or brutalized. It's easy to get careless, though, 'cause as soon as I begin to rejoice that I'm not as sexually attractive as the next woman, I'm reminded that in most cases rape is not about sex. The Christian churches in Lancaster recognize that, which is why they particpate in post-rape support services.

--------------------
Change the way you SEE, not the way you LOOK!

Posts: 3849 | From: Lancaster, PA | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
Rhonwyyn

Solid Gold SuperFan!
Member # 2854

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted May 09, 2005 19:39      Profile for Rhonwyyn   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Ehh, just found the preceding paragraph to that Brownmiller quote:

quote:
[If] the first rape was an unexpected battle founded on the first woman's refusal, the second rape was indubitably planned. Indeed, one of the earliest forms of male bonding must have been the gang rape of one woman by a band of marauding men. This accomplished, rape became not only a male prerogative, but man's basic weapon of force against woman, the principal agent of his will and her fear. His forcible entry into her body, despite her physical protestations and struggle, became the vehicle of his victorious conquest over her being, the ultimate test of his superior strength, the triumph of his manhood.

Man's discovery that his genitalia could serve as a weapon to prehistoric times, along with the use of fire and the first crude stone axe. From prehistoric times to the present, I believe, rape has played a critical function. It is nothing more or less than a conscious process of intimidation by which all men keep all women in a state of fear.



--------------------
Change the way you SEE, not the way you LOOK!

Posts: 3849 | From: Lancaster, PA | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
csk

Member # 1941

Member Rated:
5
Icon 1 posted May 09, 2005 19:43      Profile for csk     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Rhonwyyn:


quote:
"Rape is a conscious process of intimidation by which all men keep all women in a state of fear"
Brownmiller, Susan, Against Our Will: Men, Women and Rape, 1975

Brownmiller is a known feminist, but that blanket statement she uses isn't true. I'm a woman and not in a constant state of fear of rape.
Apart from which she somehow assigns ownership of rape to "all men", which is, frankly, ridiculous. Not all rapists are men, and not all men are rapists.

Edit: I mean, I'm a bicyclist, and when I'm riding, I fear getting hit by a car. But it's a big step to say that cars are are a conscious process of intimidation by car owners to keep bicycle riders in fear. Which is pretty much the same logical leap that she's making.

--------------------
6 weeks to go!

Posts: 4455 | From: Sydney, Australia | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Rhonwyyn

Solid Gold SuperFan!
Member # 2854

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted May 09, 2005 19:48      Profile for Rhonwyyn   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
csk: Totally. Although by being very nature man, they have the POTENTIAL to rape. [Roll Eyes] EDIT: s/potential/equipment/

But anyways. I read most of Brownmiller's book during my undergrad and I respect the extensive research she put into the book (basically lived in NYC's huge library during the years she wrote it). The further chapters aren't so subjective, but wow, that early "all men want all women to fear them" statement is really harsh and might serve to deter people from reading her book.

PSU has a big "Take Back the Night" event each year. Does anyone else's college/university have something similar?

--------------------
Change the way you SEE, not the way you LOOK!

Posts: 3849 | From: Lancaster, PA | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
Danimal
Mini Geek
Member # 2016

Icon 1 posted May 09, 2005 20:18      Profile for Danimal     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I'm sorry. What was this thread about? [Eek!]

--------------------
"Corporate America (or place your country here)" is one of those weird religions that still believes in human sacrifice.

Posts: 87 | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
maia
Alpha Geek
Member # 3778

Member Rated:
5
Icon 1 posted May 09, 2005 20:32      Profile for maia     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by csk:
quote:
Originally posted by Rhonwyyn:


quote:
"Rape is a conscious process of intimidation by which all men keep all women in a state of fear"
Brownmiller, Susan, Against Our Will: Men, Women and Rape, 1975

Brownmiller is a known feminist, but that blanket statement she uses isn't true. I'm a woman and not in a constant state of fear of rape.
Apart from which she somehow assigns ownership of rape to "all men", which is, frankly, ridiculous. Not all rapists are men, and not all men are rapists.

Edit: I mean, I'm a bicyclist, and when I'm riding, I fear getting hit by a car. But it's a big step to say that cars are are a conscious process of intimidation by car owners to keep bicycle riders in fear. Which is pretty much the same logical leap that she's making.

Except that most drivers that actually do run into cyclists do not intend to do so, while there is no such thing as an accidental rape.

--------------------
Nothing is too petty to be thoroughly discussed.

Posts: 316 | From: United States | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged
csk

Member # 1941

Member Rated:
5
Icon 1 posted May 09, 2005 22:00      Profile for csk     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Rhonwyyn:
csk: Totally. Although by being very nature man, they have the POTENTIAL to rape.

True. But as I said earlier, females also have this potential. Happens less commonly, sure, but it still happens.

quote:

Except that most drivers that actually do run into cyclists do not intend to do so, while there is no such thing as an accidental rape.

True. However, the mere existence of drivers that do it deliberately is enough to make my point, even if it is a much smaller group.

--------------------
6 weeks to go!

Posts: 4455 | From: Sydney, Australia | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Rhonwyyn

Solid Gold SuperFan!
Member # 2854

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted May 09, 2005 22:21      Profile for Rhonwyyn   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
My first education about date rape came through a book my mother borrowed from the public library. It was an attractive book nd contained at least three stories about date rape. One involved alcohol, another involved GHB/Rohypnol, and the third involved a girl seducing a guy I remember as shy and completely stunned that she was undressing him. He stuttered out that he didn't want to have sex, but she kept doing her thing and overpowered him.

--------------------
Change the way you SEE, not the way you LOOK!

Posts: 3849 | From: Lancaster, PA | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
jordanv
Assimilated
Member # 3189

Member Rated:
5
Icon 1 posted May 10, 2005 00:44      Profile for jordanv     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Rhonwyyn:
Could you explain what you meant by this statement? Do you mean that Christians don't think victims of rape are true victims?

quote:
28 "If a man meets a virgin who is not betrothed, and seizes her and lies with her, and they are found, 29 then the man who lay with her shall give to the father of the young woman fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife, because he has violated her; he may not put her away all his days.
and also,

quote:
23 "If there is a betrothed virgin, and a man meets her in the city and lies with her, 24 then you shall bring them both out to the gate of that city, and you shall stone them to death with stones, the young woman because she did not cry for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbor's wife; so you shall purge the evil from the midst of you.
Deuteronomy 22 makes it really unclear what is meant: the passages from 22 - 29 seem to be dealing with rape, but passage 23 just says "if he meets her in the city and lies with her" - its not clear if this means she has a choice.

Some right-wing christian nutcases (eg KKK) take this to mean that the married woman is responsible if she is raped in the city, but its not her fault if its elsewhere.

Posts: 364 | From: a house (in Sydney) | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
The Famous Druid

Gold Hearted SuperFan!
Member # 1769

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted May 10, 2005 02:25      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
And then there's the whole "death penalty for wearing poly-cotton shirts" thing .....

--------------------
If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

Posts: 10669 | From: Melbourne, Australia | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
magefile
Highlie
Member # 2918

Member Rated:
5
Icon 1 posted May 10, 2005 05:58      Profile for magefile     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Has no one here read Disclosure?

--------------------
Let them be stupid - the market will sort it out.

Posts: 743 | From: Massachusetts | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged
TMBWITW,PB

Member # 1734

Member Rated:
5
Icon 1 posted May 10, 2005 11:16      Profile for TMBWITW,PB     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by jordanv:
quote:
28 "If a man meets a virgin who is not betrothed, and seizes her and lies with her, and they are found, 29 then the man who lay with her shall give to the father of the young woman fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife, because he has violated her; he may not put her away all his days.

This is part of the "If he lies with her in a field" section. It is assumed that she yelled and no one was around to hear, therefore it was not her fault. It also talks about what should be done if her father does not want to give her to him as his wife.

quote:
23 "If there is a betrothed virgin, and a man meets her in the city and lies with her, 24 then you shall bring them both out to the gate of that city, and you shall stone them to death with stones, the young woman because she did not cry for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbor's wife; so you shall purge the evil from the midst of you.
Here is assumes that if you are being raped you will yell. If they are discovered doing the deed in the city where there are people that would hear if she was yelling then it was consensual. Consensual fornication "defiled" the people and that merited a death sentence.

I guess it never occured to anyone that someone might be frightened out of screaming. [ohwell]

--------------------
"Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and it may be necessary from time to time to give a stupid or misinformed beholder a black eye."
óMiss Piggy

Posts: 4010 | From: my couch | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged


All times are Eastern Time
This topic comprises 4 pages: 1  2  3  4 
 
Post New Topic  New Poll  Post A Reply Close Topic    Move Topic    Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:

Contact Us | Geek Culture Home Page

© 2015 Geek Culture

Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classicTM 6.4.0



homeGeek CultureWebstoreeCards!Forums!Joy of Tech!AY2K!webcam