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Topic: Hey, hey! Ho, ho! Sexy cheerleading has got to go!
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The Famous Druid
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posted May 05, 2005 13:38
To be fair, if their cheerleading routines actually do lead to pregnancies and STDs, then they probably do need to tone them down a little.
On a more serious note, have a look at GWBs attitude to fighting AIDS
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Aditu
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posted May 05, 2005 14:32
I live near a school and sometimes see them practicing routines. Some are more like a stripclub than a cheer and they are in middle school.
Posts: 1355 | From: Osten Ard | Registered: Aug 2003
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The Famous Druid
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posted May 05, 2005 14:40
quote:
Originally posted by Aditu:
I live near a school and sometimes see them practicing routines. Some are more like a stripclub than a cheer and they are in middle school.
Pictures !
</WWCVD>
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If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.
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Orpheus
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posted May 05, 2005 14:46
quote:
Originally posted by The Famous Druid:
On a more serious note, have a look at GWBs attitude to fighting AIDS
gaarrhh what a [edit: muted-explitives deleted for sake of board]
that's just wrong on so many levels
*stops off grumbling incoherently*
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my cats make me crazy
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Sxeptomaniac
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posted May 05, 2005 15:26
I'm not a fan of legislating morality. The process butchers any common sense that might have been part of the original intent.
I also think that the people who allow or even encourage teen girls to turn a dance routine into a sleazy show for pedophiles deserve the crappy laws they get. I don't particularly like feeling dirty if I happen to see a show like that at a high school sports game.
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Let's pray that the human race never escapes from Earth to spread its iniquity elsewhere. - C. S. Lewis
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SilverBlade
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posted May 05, 2005 17:47
I find the whole concept of cheerleeding very odd. Why are there a bunch of girls prancing and doing somersaults everywhere? They chant "Go go Countryhill School!" or whatever, but I am certain that they want all eyes on them only.
And to see schools with their awards for cheerleading? And girls getting upset, angry, horrible for not getting into the cheerleading squad? And those who get in are instantly the most popular girls in school and become all high-and-mighty?
Absurd really. Quite absurd.
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ZorroTheFox
BlabberMouth, a Blabber Odyssey
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posted May 05, 2005 17:50
I heard they discovered weapons of ass seduction
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GameMaster
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posted May 05, 2005 21:25
quote:
Originally posted by Sxeptomaniac:
I'm not a fan of legislating morality. The process butchers any common sense that might have been part of the original intent.
I also think that the people who allow or even encourage teen girls to turn a dance routine into a sleazy show for pedophiles deserve the crappy laws they get. I don't particularly like feeling dirty if I happen to see a show like that at a high school sports game.
Morality, basic simple morality, is all that should be legislated. Why are murder's illegal? Because killing in cold blood is wrong.
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jordanv
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posted May 05, 2005 22:14
Killing is wrong because we don't want it done to us.
We are participating in a social contract where we rule out force because we, as individuals, recognise that the benefits of force (phat lewt) are outweighed by the consequences (revenge murders, burning our houses down, getting stolen from).
Morality has absolutely nothing to do with legislation. I don't think ethics even exists.
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GameMaster
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posted May 06, 2005 00:04
Killing is wrong because we don't want it done to us.
"Follow a maxium such that you could reasonably legislate as the universal legislative" -- Kant
Yes, that is exactly why, because it is immoral -- by the very deffinition used to describe morality.
We are participating in a social contract
Social Contract theory is a moral theory, as proposed by Kant, Locke and Jefferson. Other theories include The Greatest Happiness Princible and Moral Relitivisim.
Morality has absolutely nothing to do with legislation. I don't think ethics even exists.
You go on describing the very thing governments are designed to do, and one of the more common moral theories, then say ethics don't exsist?
Am I missing something here?
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Sxeptomaniac
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posted May 06, 2005 00:11
quote:
Originally posted by GameMaster:
Morality, basic simple morality, is all that should be legislated. Why are murder's illegal? Because killing in cold blood is wrong.
I probably shouldn't have used such a subjective term as "legislate morality." ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
I think there is a large gray area invoved in deciding what is and what is not a crime. I think a crime primarily is when the rights of a group or individual are taken away by another ("rights," another undefined subjective term ).
Morality involves not only how we treat others, but how we treat ourselves. It involves not so much whether or not we denied another of rights, but whether or not we treated them in a way we would like to be treated.
So, I see this law as attempting to prevent these girls from encouraging immoral behavior, as opposed to illegal behavior.
The overlap between the illegal and immoral makes these things a little tricky, but that's my take on it, grossly oversimplified.
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Let's pray that the human race never escapes from Earth to spread its iniquity elsewhere. - C. S. Lewis
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BradMan
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posted May 06, 2005 03:58
Um... Murder is wrong because it negatively affects other 'free thinking; free choice' individuals. Not to mention the effect being quite detrimental (death). If you are out to murder someone, they have no choice to whether or not to die... you don't ask them if you can murder them.
In this case though everyone has free choice. No one is FORCED to do anything. Therefore regulation by a government body is definitely NOT needed. If the girls feel they are being showcased in a sexual manner and do not feel comfortable they can (gasp) NOT JOIN THE CHEERLEADING CLUB. If the parents don't like it, they too have choices. One being NOT GOING TO THE GAMES, and the second being not allowing their child to join the club.
No my friends this should not be placed on the shoulders of our government (FYI: they are not our babysitter...YOU ARE AN ADULT!). I'm tired of these overly religeous, morally superior (bwahaha priests and boys anyone?) deciding what should and should NOT be allowed in our society.
-Brad
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jordanv
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posted May 06, 2005 04:41
ethics as in metaethics; any form of universal standards.
So technically, morality exists, but not for metaethical reasons.
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drunkennewfiemidget
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posted May 06, 2005 05:14
Wow. Sounds like the TX government needs to desperately pull its head out of its ass. If they think disallowing cheerleaders from doing suggestive routines is going to stop them from banging the football team, they've lost their minds.
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Erbo
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posted May 06, 2005 08:42
Yeah, this is another one of those "don't those guys have anything better to do?" moments. Suggestive cheerleader dance routines causing pregnancy and VD? Honestly, I thought those kind of attitudes went out with high-button shoes.
Ironically, the guy that introduced this measure in the Texas state House is not a religious-right wingnut, as one might have surmised, but Al Edwards, who is (a) black, and (b) a Democrat. Go figure. ![[Confused]](confused.gif)
Thankfully, Texas' state Senate seems to have better sense, and the bill will likely be dropped.
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Orpheus
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posted May 06, 2005 08:44
quote:
Originally posted by drunkennewfiemidget:
Wow. Sounds like the TX government needs to desperately pull its head out of its ass. If they think disallowing cheerleaders from doing suggestive routines is going to stop them from banging the football team, they've lost their minds.
The problem is having your head up your ass for so long can lead to learning through osmosis. I see it every day. ![[shake head]](graemlins/shakehead.gif)
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drunkennewfiemidget
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posted May 06, 2005 08:47
quote:
Originally posted by Orpheus:
quote:
Originally posted by drunkennewfiemidget:
Wow. Sounds like the TX government needs to desperately pull its head out of its ass. If they think disallowing cheerleaders from doing suggestive routines is going to stop them from banging the football team, they've lost their minds.
The problem is having your head up your ass for so long can lead to learning through osmosis. I see it every day.
That would work, if you were studying the human rectum.
"IM GONNA SHOVE YOUR HEAD SO FAR UP YOUR OWN ASS, YOULL HAVE TO WEAR YOURSELF AS A HAT!" -- Matt Stone.
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TMBWITW,PB
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posted May 06, 2005 09:40
Suggestive cheerleading routines probably don't lead to more teen pregnancies or STDs, but some of those routines do qualify as child pornography. True, the girls on the squad are not forced to join, and probably not forced to do anything they are uncomfortable with, but I've known plenty of sixteen year olds that loved to show off their bodies more than they should have. I'm not sure what standard Texas will use to decide which routines are appropriate and which are not, but I think I approve of some regulation.
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"Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and it may be necessary from time to time to give a stupid or misinformed beholder a black eye."
—Miss Piggy
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Stereo
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posted May 06, 2005 09:57
My main question would be - why do they need a legislation about that? Isn't there any adult supervising these cheerleading squads who can put some boundary on what's acceptable in a routine, and what's not? (Or maybe the ones who do are pedophile?)
As for the "not forced to do it" part, I think the social pressure can be quite strong in such a case. Just imagine: "Don't want to do it? No problem, there are plenty of other girls who would just love to take your place." Along with that silly thing that cheerleaders are automatically high in the popularity ladder, tell me, how many of them push their uneasiness aside so they can keep their social status?
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Galileo Galilei
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Stereo
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posted May 06, 2005 10:25
(Sorry, stupidly backed and resubmitted the post.)
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Eppur, si muove!
Galileo Galilei
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The Famous Druid
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posted May 06, 2005 14:11
quote:
Originally posted by Stereo:
As for the "not forced to do it" part, I think the social pressure can be quite strong in such a case. Just imagine: "Don't want to do it? No problem, there are plenty of other girls who would just love to take your place." Along with that silly thing that cheerleaders are automatically high in the popularity ladder, tell me, how many of them push their uneasiness aside so they can keep their social status?
Hmmm.....
Sexually suggestive routines ... increased popularity.....
/me might have spotted a cause-and-effect relationship ....
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If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.
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Sxeptomaniac
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posted May 06, 2005 15:02
Sometimes people seem to forget that there is a range of belief systems in a society, and a balance needs to be struck between the extremes. If some people were too shortsighted to realize that they were going to offend conservatives by dancing that way at public events in Texas, then it's reasonable for the legislature to intervene, even if the resulting laws suck.
"A conservative is a statesman who is enamored of existing evils, as distinguished from the liberal who wishes to replace them with others." - Ambrose Bierce
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Let's pray that the human race never escapes from Earth to spread its iniquity elsewhere. - C. S. Lewis
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Zargof McBain
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posted May 06, 2005 15:13
quote:
Originally posted by Sxeptomaniac:
Sometimes people seem to forget that there is a range of belief systems in a society, and a balance needs to be struck between the extremes. If some people were too shortsighted to realize that they were going to offend conservatives by dancing that way at public events in Texas, then it's reasonable for the legislature to intervene, even if the resulting laws suck.
"A conservative is a statesman who is enamored of existing evils, as distinguished from the liberal who wishes to replace them with others." - Ambrose Bierce
But by the same token, introducing these laws encroaches on the beliefs of those who believe in freedom of expression. So why does the rights of conservatives appear to outweigh the rights of liberals?
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Rhonwyyn
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posted May 06, 2005 16:24
Zargof McBrain said:
quote:
So why [do] the rights of conservatives appear to outweigh the rights of liberals?
That may be the case here, but it's definitely not true in many cases. Following the assumption that conservatives tend toward the moralistic, conversely liberals would tend toward the amoralistic. Consider the case of abortion "rights," where liberals have succeeded in legislating their form of morality--"every woman has the right to do with her body what she wants." The rights of the liberals have definitely not been outweighed by the conservatives.
/me opens another can of worms
What I don't get about the whole right-to-abort movement, especially the argument posed by feminists that it's a woman's body and she has the right to do whatever she wants to, is this: What about the unborn woman who is denied the basic rights set forth as fact/truth in the U.S. Declaration of Independence--the rights to "Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness"? Apparently, feminists only want rights for women who have been born, not those who are germinating in the womb.
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