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Author Topic: Gun safety instructor shoots himslf...
The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted May 05, 2004 21:11      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Chesty:
I guess if anybody knew how likely it was for certain people to get certain crimes commited against them it would be The Bureau of Justice Statistics.

I've looked through some of these tables and can't find a thing about people owning guns becoming the victims of shootings.

Maybe some of you can find these elusive but oft-quoted stats here...
Criminal Victimization statistics

Googles first match for "gun statistics home" was this

Note the statistic for women, 7.2 times as likely to be victims of domestic homicide if there's a gun in the home.


quote:
Originally posted by Spiderman:
Basics like don't keep a gun loaded, keep the ammo in a separate storage area etc. etc.
Though it would need to be carefully approached I think that some type of regulation of gun storage would be a desirable thing...it would discourage the supposed aggravated use of the firearm during disputes and decrease the likelihood of accident related injury/death.

There would be no reason for a law-abiding citizen not to comply.

Um, wouldn't the above (very sensible IMHO) precautions limit your ability to defend the family from the Mad-Max-esque marauders who seem to lurk around every corner waiting to ravage the homes of the gunless?

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greycat

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Icon 1 posted May 06, 2004 05:29      Profile for greycat   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Too Cool To Quit:
Why must we invent weapons to inflict harm upon other people?

Because the weapons that didn't harm the enemy didn't work out too well. Did you ever hear of the mighty Estonian Stuffed Animal Squadron? No? Well, now you know why....

[Wink]

Seriously, you can't put the genie back into the bottle. Once guns exist, you just have to make sure that both sides have them. The same applies to tanks, bombers, nukes, everything. Only a tyrannical imperialist bastard nation would try to prevent another country from developing nuclear weapons while simultaneously having enough of them to destroy the planet multiple times over... one like, say, mine. [Frown]

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Spiderman

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Icon 1 posted May 06, 2004 07:19      Profile for Spiderman     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by The Famous Druid:

Um, wouldn't the above (very sensible IMHO) precautions limit your ability to defend the family from the Mad-Max-esque marauders who seem to lurk around every corner waiting to ravage the homes of the gunless?

That it would seem is the conundrum...I suppose it depends on the intent of ownership. I personally own a Ruger 10/22 rifle for recreational purposes. Is it loaded or unlocked during storage? no. Ammunition stored in the same case? no. Is it's intent to protect myself? again, no.

In all reality, the praticality of using a gun in self defense (at least in a house breakin type of situation) is probably very low...take into account a person's nervousness/terror in the case of facing a burglar/criminal and the usefulness of his/her firearm just decreased extremely.

The long and short of it IMHO is:

Mandatory gun safety classes for gun owners.
We don't even think twice about taking drivers education classes to become certified drivers right? This is no different.

Some type of storage regulation would be in order.

One or two other things that I just forgot since the boss just walked in the building...

To be potentially edited at a more opportune time...

-SM

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angryjungman

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Icon 1 posted May 06, 2004 08:22      Profile for angryjungman   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Callipygous:

What I do find puzzling is the romantic attachment you in the US have for guns, that is implicit in some of the posts here. For some of you it seems to be an essential part of what it means to be an American, which to an outsider is just bizarre. I know it's there in your constitution, but those were different times, and traditions only hold good if they make sense in society now. Is it some Mark Twainish lighting out for the frontier thing, or is it the movies? Either way to most foreigners (and me) it's just plain nuts.

I [and my father] have often wondered at that as well. I can assure you that guns are in no way a part of what I think makes me an American. Although, granted, I think I am a very atypical American. I was raised in a house that was very anti-gun. My father absolutely hates them. I, personally, never saw the point of them. Where's the honour or skill in killing something [or someone] with a gun? It's like point and click killing. Now a sword, there's a man's weapon.

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Meh.

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Lithandro
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Icon 1 posted May 06, 2004 09:11      Profile for Lithandro   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by angryjungman:
Now a sword, there's a man's weapon.

Nah man, a spoon is a mans weapon! [Big Grin]

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But why is the rum gone?

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Xanthine

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Icon 1 posted May 06, 2004 13:47      Profile for Xanthine     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
"Locksley! I'm going to cut your heart out with a spoon!"

Later..."Why a spoon cousin? Why not an axe or a..."
"Because it's dull you twit! It'll hurt more!"

Best lines in that movie, IMHO.

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Allan
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Icon 1 posted May 06, 2004 13:57      Profile for Allan     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Xanthine:
"Locksley! I'm going to cut your heart out with a spoon!"

Later..."Why a spoon cousin? Why not an axe or a..."
"Because it's dull you twit! It'll hurt more!"

Best lines in that movie, IMHO.

You need Spooooooooooon Guaaaaaaaaaaard!!!
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Erbo
Discontinued


Icon 11 posted May 06, 2004 14:58            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Well, there is certainly a lot of lively discussion here...at least as much as there's been on Electric Minds when this issue has come up. I'm gonna skip around a bit, so bear with me.

First of all, with regard to the original topic of this thread, I agree with Kim's assessment:

(a) What the hell was a DEA agent doing demonstrating gun safety to a school class? Were all the NRA-certified instructors (i.e. people who know how to teach this stuff) busy that day?

(b) Something must have been wrong with his gun, or maybe he just had his finger on the trigger when he released the slide.

In either case, the guy was being stupid...and stupidity, as Robert Heinlein reminds us, is the only universal capital crime. He was lucky to walk away with a flesh wound.

The Famous Druid said: "I've seen figures (sorry, don't have the link handy) that most female murder victims (around 2/3 from memory) are killed by 'intimates', which they defined to be partners or close family members." And how many of those "partners or close family members" had criminal records themselves? And if they didn't, they had damn poor impulse control...not a desireable characteristic in a gun owner. If I choose to accept the responsibility of gun ownership, I should also accept right along with it the responsibility to control my impulses. Too many idiots don't...

Too Cool To Quit says, "Why must we invent weapons to inflict harm upon other people?" Well, there's another saying: "There are no dangerous weapons; there are only dangerous men." A weapon is a tool, which, like any tool, can be used for good or ill. Spiderman cited several examples of other tools that can be used for good or ill.

TFD continues by saying, "Note the statistic for women, 7.2 times as likely to be victims of domestic homicide if there's a gun in the home." Seems to me there's a good answer to that...teach your wife to shoot as well. (If Pamela's interested, I plan on ensuring that she learns, too. It might save her life someday...especially if she decides to go into the jewelry business.)

To answer some of Spiderman's points, I fully support gun safety instruction, and plan on taking something like the NRA Pistol course (which is also required for Colorado's concealed-carry permit) before purchasing one. As ESR says, "Don't play stupid!" And as to the problem of keeping a gun around in Condition One (loaded and locked), secured from grasping fingers and yet accessible quickly in case of need, these would seem to offer a good solution. (Found that link via ESR.) And, of course, practice, practice, practice getting it out and brought to bear (with an empty gun, duh).

Geez...am I the designated Second Amendment defender in this topic? Sure beginning to sound like it...and I don't even own a gun yet. (Well, not quite true. I inherited a replica black-powder muzzle-loader pistol from my grandfather...but I've never tried to actually make it shoot a projectile. More details and pictures here.)

Oh, and Spiderman...if you want to stock up on ammo for that AK-47, National Ammo Day is November 19. [Wink]

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littlefish
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Icon 1 posted May 06, 2004 15:11      Profile for littlefish   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Erbo wrote:
quote:
Geez...am I the designated Second Amendment defender in this topic? Sure beginning to sound like it...and I don't even own a gun yet
I dunno. You seem to make sense, but I don't agree with the American constitution on principle. Being british anyway it doesn't affect me too much.

Having said that, I'd like to shoot guns. I nearly joined a rifle club when I was younger, but couldn't afford it. I do think that it is too easy to get a gun in the states, but don't know too much about it. Basically a gun is a very dangerous thing that doesn't (or shouldn't) have too much use for normal people in a civilised society. Dangerous things should be controlled, but available to people who know how to use them (like drugs- you wouldn't allow "normal" people to get hold of them, but when given by a doctor it all makes sense).

I did think that banning all handguns in the UK was a very stupid move. It really pissed off a minority who legitimately shot, and did nothing to stop criminals from obtaining them. Which did not achieve the desired goal.

I'm also pissed off that on the day I could have shot an uzi, the shop had no subsonic ammo, and the guy who owned it didn't want to piss off the neghbours with the fast stuff.

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Jessycat

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Icon 1 posted May 06, 2004 15:15      Profile for Jessycat     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Erbo:
A weapon is a tool, which, like any tool, can be used for good or ill.

What "good" can a gun do?

quote:
TFD continues by saying, "Note the statistic for women, 7.2 times as likely to be victims of domestic homicide if there's a gun in the home." Seems to me there's a good answer to that...teach your wife to shoot as well.
But what if the woman does not want to shoot anyone? (I know that certainly wouldn't be my first instinct.) Or if the man gets to the gun first? Or, say the man and woman each have their own gun; are you saying there should be a shoot-out instead of a verbal disagreement or even a good old-fashioned fistfight?

Seems simple to me: if there's no gun, no one gets shot.

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Cap'n Vic

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Icon 1 posted May 06, 2004 15:30      Profile for Cap'n Vic     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Jessycat:
quote:
Originally posted by Erbo:
A weapon is a tool, which, like any tool, can be used for good or ill.

What "good" can a gun do?


Kill.

I hate guns, and most gun owners fit the stereotype: Mullet, wife beater shirt, trailer park dweller, related parents, NASCAR/WWF fan.....but I digress.

Guns are good for killing. I live in a part of the world where a good part of the population still hunt to feed their families. I choose not to hunt. I would rather have someone else kill the food and I just buy it at the store, bring it home and eat it.

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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted May 06, 2004 15:46      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Erbo:

(a) What the hell was a DEA agent doing demonstrating gun safety to a school class? Were all the NRA-certified instructors (i.e. people who know how to teach this stuff) busy that day?

How do you know he's not NRA certified?


The Famous Druid said: "I've seen figures (sorry, don't have the link handy) that most female murder victims (around 2/3 from memory) are killed by 'intimates', which they defined to be partners or close family members."
And how many of those "partners or close family members" had criminal records themselves? And if they didn't, they had damn poor impulse control...not a desireable characteristic in a gun owner. If I choose to accept the responsibility of gun ownership, I should also accept right along with it the responsibility to control my impulses. Too many idiots don't...

1. So if the partner has a criminal record, that means the murder of his wife/girlfriend doesn't count? What is the point you're trying to make here?

2. I agree completely that poor impulse control is a poor characteristic in a gun owner. It is also, in my experience, depressingly common. We all know people who are prone to over-reacting in anger situations, and a large proportion of gun deaths in the USA are attributable to this. Keeping guns away from people like this seems like a good idea to me.

TFD continues by saying, "Note the statistic for women, 7.2 times as likely to be victims of domestic homicide if there's a gun in the home." Seems to me there's a good answer to that...teach your wife to shoot as well.

Seems to me that's not going to reduce the number of deaths, it'll just be you that's killed instead of Pamela. In fact, 2 guns on the scene are far more dangerous than 1, when there's 2 guns, the pressure to shoot first is high.

Erbos response here reminds me of the reaction after the Columbine shootings, where spokes-droids for the gun lobby claimed that the victims could have defended themselves if they'd been allowed to carry their own guns.

This is madness beyond description!

Does anyone seriously believe that a school full of teenagers 'packing heat' would be a safer place?

--------------------
If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

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Cap'n Vic

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Icon 1 posted May 06, 2004 16:03      Profile for Cap'n Vic     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
'member that scene in "Bowling for Columbine" where they listed of the number of gun related deaths per country?

I don't know the people to gun ratio per (Western)country but it is obvious the US population has something in their culture that makes them want to kill/destroy. [ohwell]

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Spiderman

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Icon 1 posted May 06, 2004 17:48      Profile for Spiderman     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by The Famous Druid:

Erbos response here reminds me of the reaction after the Columbine shootings, where spokes-droids for the gun lobby claimed that the victims could have defended themselves if they'd been allowed to carry their own guns.

This is madness beyond description!

Um right, and the above statement reminds me of the woman who sued McDonalds after she spilled coffee on her lap.

If the statement just make by me makes no sense, that's the point...I fail to see the connection either...and that goes for TFD's statement as well.

Yes, I agree that arming students is insane...and I believe any sane person would agree...It's funny though how you chose to refer to the stupid blabberings of an idiotic minority of gun advocates to back up your argument. [Roll Eyes]

I have found that it is pointless (although in some cases amusing) to watch/participate in gun discussions...neither side will ever concede to the other and I am in some cases more concerned that an anti-gun person will pull out a gun... [Wink]

So with that, and a few regrets that I posted the article, My participation in this thread is hopefully over...I never suspected it would become what it has...but I guess I should have known [Razz]

BTW, Erbo...I'll be your designated Second Amendment defense backup if you like [Wink]

No hard feelings to those I choose to disagree with...that's the beauty of the US of A, you can believe what you choose...but remember what brought that freedom in the first place.

Oh wait, but I don't need guns...I'm Spiderman!!!!! [Big Grin] [Wink]

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Math problems? Call 1-800-[(10x)(13i)^2]-[sin(xy)/2.362x]

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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted May 06, 2004 19:55      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Spiderman:
quote:
Originally posted by The Famous Druid:

Erbos response here reminds me of the reaction after the Columbine shootings, where spokes-droids for the gun lobby claimed that the victims could have defended themselves if they'd been allowed to carry their own guns.

This is madness beyond description!

Um right, and the above statement reminds me of the woman who sued McDonalds after she spilled coffee on her lap.

If the statement just make by me makes no sense, that's the point...I fail to see the connection either...and that goes for TFD's statement as well.

Ok, well let me spell it out for you.

The NRAs solution to school shootings is to have more guns in schools.
Erbos solution to home shootings is to have more guns in the home.

In both cases, the suggested solution to a problem that's caused by guns in inappropriate places is more guns.


Not that hard to follow really, unless you're trying really hard not to.

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One
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Icon 1 posted May 10, 2004 00:06      Profile for One     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
>But what if the woman does not want to shoot anyone?

Your basic instinct is survival or you would not be alive. If
your life is in danger and you won't act to preserve it you are
an aberation.

>What "good" can a gun do?

Provide you with freedom if your guns are better or you have more of them.

>they have the 'random stranger' attacker in mind, a fairly rare >occurance

Depends on where you live.

>disarm a knife-wielding woman on a couple of occasions, >(have I told you about my mad ex?)

If you had a gun you would have cause to shoot her.

>can't we all just get along?

No. It's animal nature and a natural evolution of the first
human-like critter that smashed his competitor or attacker over the head with a rock. If I'm wrong it means you are excessively
coddled or over medicated.

>Either way to most foreigners (and me) it's just plain nuts.

Sure, I understand. It's plain nuts to me to expect
to wait for a Cop to help me out. Distances are
much greater here. I live 110 miles from the nearest
movie theatre. 25 miles from a gas station. With the correct
weapon I kill stuff as a daily part of life, rats,
rabid animals, terminally injured and suffering wildlife, pest species, etc. This includes people who might break out of
a nearby prison, which is only 3 miles away. And they do break out. It's different here. The county I live in doesn't even have a concept of "building permits", there is no trash collection, no recycling, no animal control, no choppers with searchlights, no nothing, in the absense of all that there is freedom, lots of it. No bickering with neighbors, no traffic, no noise, no pollution, none of that crap, but I most certainly do need a gun. Which I will have on my person when I step outside to take a piss and look at the stars tonight.

Also, there's nothing that can be done about it anyway, once you
start to ban personal defense completely as the UK has, crime rates will go up. Been to Manchester lately?

Plus, armed citizens are the final check on a tyrancial government, it's the final balance of power. 100 and something
million people killed by their own gun control governments in the last 100 years could vouch for that.

And on the thread topic, I think that DEA agent gave, unintentionally, the best gun safety demonstration ever!

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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted May 10, 2004 00:48      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by One:
>they have the 'random stranger' attacker in mind, a fairly rare >occurance

Depends on where you live.


If you live in the USA, it's more rare than a 'domestic attacker'

>disarm a knife-wielding woman on a couple of occasions, >(have I told you about my mad ex?)

If you had a gun you would have cause to shoot her.


And if she'd had a gun, I'd have been killed. Fortunately, neither of us had a gun, and no-one died.
In my universe 'having cause to shoot' my girlfriend is not considered a good thing.

Also, there's nothing that can be done about it anyway, once you
start to ban personal defense completely as the UK has, crime rates will go up. Been to Manchester lately?


1. The UK hasn't banned personal defense, no sane country would. They simply restrict access to lethal weapons, quite a different thing.

2. The murder rate in Manchester is a small fraction of what's typical in US industrial cities.
Even Northern Ireland during the worst of the troubles didn't come close to the murder rate most Americans are used to.

Plus, armed citizens are the final check on a tyrancial government, it's the final balance of power. 100 and something
million people killed by their own gun control governments in the last 100 years could vouch for that.

And how many people have 'gun available' governments killed in the USA?
Doesn't look like gun ownership stopped either side in your Civil War committing mass murder.

--------------------
If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

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Icon 1 posted May 10, 2004 09:30      Profile for One     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
The other thing that nobody mentions about the supposedly high gun crime rate in the USA is that if you subtract all of the crime in black and hispanic areas the crime rates here are the same or less than anywhere else in the world. I'm not a racist,
it's just the truth, black populated areas are really dangerous.
It wasn't always this way, then ridiculous social welfare programs created total chaos in the black population.
The place is live is 50% black.

In Australia you have better controls on an even smaller black
population. And they aren't even really blacks if you ask me.

http://members.optusnet.com.au/~jonjayray/blacrime.html

>The UK hasn't banned personal defense.

There have been a lot of reports that indicate otherwise. Non-lethal defense is banned as well...

http://www.thisislancashire.co.uk/lancashire/archive/2003/05/23/BENTOPNEWS0ZM.html

>And how many people have 'gun available' governments killed in the USA?

Here it's considered to be a worthwhile risk, live free or die.

As far as the civil war, that's fine, free people with the ability to fight for what they believe in? You call that a problem? The only problem I have with the civil war is that the good guys lost and now the federal government takes on responsibilities not expressly granted in the constitution.

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cheezi git
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Icon 1 posted May 10, 2004 10:35      Profile for cheezi git     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by One:
The other thing that nobody mentions about the supposedly high gun crime rate in the USA is that if you subtract all of the crime in black and hispanic areas the crime rates here are the same or less than anywhere else in the world. I'm not a racist,
it's just the truth, black populated areas are really dangerous.
It wasn't always this way, then ridiculous social welfare programs created total chaos in the black population.
The place is live is 50% black.

In Australia you have better controls on an even smaller black
population. And they aren't even really blacks if you ask me.

http://members.optusnet.com.au/~jonjayray/blacrime.html

>The UK hasn't banned personal defense.

There have been a lot of reports that indicate otherwise. Non-lethal defense is banned as well...

http://www.thisislancashire.co.uk/lancashire/archive/2003/05/23/BENTOPNEWS0ZM.html

>And how many people have 'gun available' governments killed in the USA?

Here it's considered to be a worthwhile risk, live free or die.

As far as the civil war, that's fine, free people with the ability to fight for what they believe in? You call that a problem? The only problem I have with the civil war is that the good guys lost and now the federal government takes on responsibilities not expressly granted in the constitution.

i'm trying to work out who you are, because you're obviously someone who has already participated in this thread, but want to vent your racist, badly-reasoned excuse for a point of view, without letting anyone here know who you are.

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Stereo

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Icon 2 posted May 10, 2004 11:35      Profile for Stereo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Well, One (whoever you may be), if you're not racist, you should rather say "impoverished populations has high crime rate". Cause that's the real source of the problem: poverty. Canada is just as cosmopolite as the United States, while the violent crime rate is lower (and I believe property crime rate too, but I'm not sure) - partly because much fewer people fall through the canadian social net than the US one. I'll leave it to you to explore this way of answer.

My life isn't at risk from a burglar, and hardly from a raper. Only a killer - vendetta/fury or sociopath - is really dangerous (not taking into account drunk driving, speeding, other misbehavior, or just plain accidents of all kind) and, as some noted before, the former type is in higher occurence than the latter who, by the way, usually prey on defenseless people from the start.

Fury is what TFD experienced, and he explained very well that a gun is more dangerous than helpfull. Vendetta is planned, so the killer will probably make sure you won't be able to use your gun. A bullet won't stop a speeding car. I was told that most rapers need their victim to be afraid/submissive to go beyond the saying - staying calm and in control (and not drinking anything you're not sure wasn't spiked) is the best way to safety, no guns needed here.

So please explain how you can consider a human life to be worth no more than the few trinkets a burglar may go away with if you call the police instead of getting out your gun. Aren't you instructed in self-defence class that if someone assault you on the street, don't resist and give him (masculine used here on statistic basis) what he wants? (I was.) And why on earth do you accept to pay for a police you don't trust when times come for them to justify their existence?

The "Wild West" time is over, buddy. Why can't you loose your "Wild West" mentality?

P.S.: Don't come to me saying that if you don't kill the burglar, he'll kill you. The purpose of a burglary is to steal, not to kill. The killing usually happens when the owner fights back, and then the burglar face a 'kill or be killed' situation. Whom gets killed - burglar or owner (or innocent bystander) - is only a matter of chance.

--------------------
Eppur, si muove!

Galileo Galilei

Posts: 2289 | From: Gatineau, Quebec, Canada | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Cap'n Vic

Member # 1477

Icon 1 posted May 10, 2004 11:59      Profile for Cap'n Vic     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by One:
The other thing that nobody mentions about the supposedly high gun crime rate in the USA is that if you subtract all of the crime in black and hispanic areas the crime rates here are the same or less than anywhere else in the world. I'm not a racist,
it's just the truth, black populated areas are really dangerous.
It wasn't always this way, then ridiculous social welfare programs created total chaos in the black population.
The place is live is 50% black.

In Australia you have better controls on an even smaller black
population. And they aren't even really blacks if you ask me.

http://members.optusnet.com.au/~jonjayray/blacrime.html

>The UK hasn't banned personal defense.

There have been a lot of reports that indicate otherwise. Non-lethal defense is banned as well...

http://www.thisislancashire.co.uk/lancashire/archive/2003/05/23/BENTOPNEWS0ZM.html

>And how many people have 'gun available' governments killed in the USA?

Here it's considered to be a worthwhile risk, live free or die.

As far as the civil war, that's fine, free people with the ability to fight for what they believe in? You call that a problem? The only problem I have with the civil war is that the good guys lost and now the federal government takes on responsibilities not expressly granted in the constitution.

That is the most chicken shit, gutless post I have ever read.

Fuck off and die Nazi.

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(!) (T) = 8-D

Posts: 5471 | From: One of the drones from sector 7G | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
GMx

Solid Nitrozanium SuperFan!
Member # 1523

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Icon 1 posted May 10, 2004 13:56      Profile for GMx     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by One:
Plus, armed citizens are the final check on a tyrancial government, it's the final balance of power.

Then why hasn't George Bush been shot yet?
Posts: 5848 | From: S-4, Area 51 | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
cheezi git
BlabberMouth, the Next Generation
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Icon 1 posted May 10, 2004 14:10      Profile for cheezi git     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by One:

In Australia you have better controls on an even smaller black population.

And they aren't even really blacks if you ask me.

you fail to mention if this is a good thing or bad thing. i would love to know your opinion on this
Posts: 1929 | From: the left nostril of my cat | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
spungo
BlabberMouth, a Blabber Odyssey
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Icon 1 posted May 10, 2004 14:50      Profile for spungo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Funny how whenever you get into a firearms discussion with an inbred, donkey-worrying, straw-chewing, banjo-picking, sister-fiddling, redneck they will invariably, at some point, bring up the issue of race.

Hm. Whenever I wonder about the origins of racist comments I hear / read I'm usually puzzled for a moment - but then I just have to remind myself what a bunch of semi-literate knuckle-draggers white supremacists always turn out to be.

Posts: 6529 | From: Noba Scoba | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
The Famous Druid

Gold Hearted SuperFan!
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Icon 1 posted May 10, 2004 15:25      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by One:
I'm not a racist,

good to hear

it's just the truth, black populated areas are really dangerous.

Starting to doubt your first statement

In Australia you have better controls on an even smaller black
population. And they aren't even really blacks if you ask me.


Really starting to doubt the first statement.

>The UK hasn't banned personal defense.

There have been a lot of reports that indicate otherwise. Non-lethal defense is banned as well...

http://www.thisislancashire.co.uk/lancashire/archive/2003/05/23/BENTOPNEWS0ZM.html


Please understand the difference between the right to self defense, and the possession of prohibited weapons.
The man in the article was not arrested for defending himself, he was arrested for carrying a prohibited weapon.

>And how many people have 'gun available' governments killed in the USA?

Here it's considered to be a worthwhile risk, live free or die.


All patriotic rhetoric aside, it still disproves your assertion that gun ownership is a safeguard against mass-murdering governments.

The only problem I have with the civil war is that the good guys lost

Really, really doubting your first statement.

The confederacy were the 'good guys' ??????
My bullshitometer has just gone off the scale, the same person who proudly proclaims "live free or die" (a Yankee motto btw) describes a bunch of slave owners as the 'good guys'.

--------------------
If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

Posts: 10680 | From: Melbourne, Australia | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged


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