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Author Topic: Killing two birds with one stone?
Stereo

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Icon 5 posted March 28, 2011 05:43      Profile for Stereo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Hello fellow geeks. Reading some news about the Quebec government wanting to reduce the water consumption, there is a little tidbit that said that two of the biggest cities may lose betwee 20% and 40% of their treated water through leaks.

Now, those two cities are also afflicted by serious potholes. So those may or not be related, but any chance the water leaking from the water pipes are (partly) responsible of those potholes? If so, refection of the pipes would be doubly-effective by 1) avoiding treating water that leaks into the ground, and 2)reduce the road repairs.

Anyone knows enough to tell me if there can be a correlation between the two, or if I am way out?

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Galileo Galilei

Posts: 2289 | From: Gatineau, Quebec, Canada | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted March 28, 2011 07:01      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
There was a car-eating (several metres wide and deep) hole in the road a couple of blocks from Casa Del Druid a few years ago that was caused by a leaking water pipe.

Of course, Melbourne's climate is a little different from Quebec, so there may be other weird freeze-and-thaw stuff going on in your part of the world that adds to the problem, but there's no doubt that leaking pipes _can_ cause holes in the road.

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If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

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TheMoMan
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Icon 1 posted March 28, 2011 11:15      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
____ Stereo, at least near here, (44N) most potholes are caused by shallow frost heaves forcing the road bed up. Leaking pipes will cause undermining and sink holes.

____ The joke is that farm fields grow rocks, as frost heaves bring them to the surface.

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Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.


Benjamin Franklin,

Posts: 5835 | From: Just South of the Huron National Forest, in the water shed of the Rifle River | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
quantumfluff
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Icon 1 posted March 28, 2011 14:06      Profile for quantumfluff     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
The best way to kill two birds with one stone is high muzzle velocity.
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Stereo

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Icon 1 posted March 28, 2011 22:37      Profile for Stereo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Ok, thanks!

It was my idea that water from leaks would infiltrate the ground; when it freezes, it takes expansion, pulling apart at places, compacting at others the road bed. (Think your cereals box that got compacted in transport.) When it thaws, the water retracts, leaving the road weak from the messed-up bed, thus more prone to enormous pot-holes.

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Eppur, si muove!

Galileo Galilei

Posts: 2289 | From: Gatineau, Quebec, Canada | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
TheMoMan
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Icon 1 posted March 28, 2011 23:48      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
____ Stereo, get out of the city. Find a rural area where a road was built near or across swamp. As the seasons change the road goes through some pretty nasty changes depending on how deep the winter frost line went, how high the water table was, did it flood the road. The more a road is plowed to remove snow actually drives the frost line deeper, less insulation.

____ At one house I owned the line from the well to the house was not buried very deep. So each winter I would plow the snow to the area above the water line. I also left the water on a trickle so that the heat from below, deep under ground would keep the well working. So all night long one would hear the well start and stop filling the tank.

____ So I guess I was using Geothermal back then.

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Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.


Benjamin Franklin,

Posts: 5835 | From: Just South of the Huron National Forest, in the water shed of the Rifle River | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
Stereo

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Icon 1 posted March 29, 2011 04:56      Profile for Stereo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
TheMoMan: I have lived in rural areas well until my teens. I still drive through many country-side roads at all time of the year. And the ditch on each side may be deep enough, perhaps the water is well drained enough. But most of the damage I have seen to the country roads were to the sides, where asphalt would crumble a bit; or cracking and asphalt tearing off from usage (and then, it's smallish bumps on a long distance, not localized). And they do plow regularly.

Localized big holes (30 cm wide or more, and 10 cm deep) in the middle of the road? Serious collapses? Year after year? I have seen them only in the cities.

Of course, my original thought is just a little theory of mine. And perhaps I am lucky to drive on mostly well-maintained roads.

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Eppur, si muove!

Galileo Galilei

Posts: 2289 | From: Gatineau, Quebec, Canada | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
TheMoMan
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Icon 1 posted March 29, 2011 10:27      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
____ I do not think your theory is far fetched, there is enough evidence to support study. Leaks from pipes though tend to really under mine the road bed. Underground aquifers would by my prime suspect and it would not do as much washing away of the road bed.

Frost heaves are the real road destroyers, how the water got there, that is up for debate.

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Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.


Benjamin Franklin,

Posts: 5835 | From: Just South of the Huron National Forest, in the water shed of the Rifle River | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
TheMoMan
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Icon 1 posted March 30, 2011 10:41      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
____ More on the above, we were out for our evening walk. Nice sunny day and the water was flowing up through the cracks in the asphalt, walking along that part of the road was like walking on a half filled water bed really spongy.

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Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.


Benjamin Franklin,

Posts: 5835 | From: Just South of the Huron National Forest, in the water shed of the Rifle River | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
TheMoMan
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Icon 1 posted April 02, 2011 11:03      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
____ Stereo, If a muni water system was losing that much water, they could afford water proof cameras and feed them through the lines, also sonar type microphones tuned to the frequencies of escaping water might be a wise investment.

____ I know of a sleeving device (looks like a bicycle inner tube but not made into a torus) that is used to repair wells. they can save a home owner from having a new well being drilled, it is not very expensive compared to a new well.

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Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.


Benjamin Franklin,

Posts: 5835 | From: Just South of the Huron National Forest, in the water shed of the Rifle River | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged


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