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Author Topic: Safari vs. FireFox
Rhonwyyn

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Icon 1 posted December 18, 2010 10:30      Profile for Rhonwyyn   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
So, I'm typing this on my new MacBook! It's sweet! Thus far, anyway.

Since I'm starting from scratch here, I thought I'd reopen the Safari vs. Firefox debate. Or should I consider Google Chrome? What say you?

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Posts: 3849 | From: Lancaster, PA | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
Snaggy

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Icon 14 posted December 18, 2010 10:41      Profile for Snaggy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Hey congrats on your new Mac!

I use both Firefox and Safari, but more Safari, just because I like the interface better. You will want to try all three, and you will probably use at least two of them every day. It's not a one or the other situation, especially since you can now run them at the same time without issue on your new hardware.

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TheMoMan
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Icon 1 posted December 18, 2010 11:00      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
____ My two pence, I have tried Chrome on Ubuntu, and found it not to my liking, also Google already knows too much about me.


____ YMMV

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Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.


Benjamin Franklin,

Posts: 5848 | From: Just South of the Huron National Forest, in the water shed of the Rifle River | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
littlefish
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Icon 1 posted December 18, 2010 11:02      Profile for littlefish   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I use chrome on my mac, because of the way it handles the bookmark bar. I also keep camino and firefox in my dock, and safari comes out to play every once in a while.

Try them all - they're free!

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Rhonwyyn

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Icon 1 posted December 18, 2010 12:55      Profile for Rhonwyyn   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Hah! Haven't used it for more than a few hours, and Safari crashed already. Maybe part of my tasks today (between baking bread and making Christmas presents) will be downloading FF. MoMan, for the reason you listed, I think I'll stay away from Chrome.

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Xanthine

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Icon 1 posted December 18, 2010 21:32      Profile for Xanthine     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I used to enjoy Safari, but then, a couple updates ago, it stopped getting along with my computer. So now I'm using FF.

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TheMoMan
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Icon 1 posted December 19, 2010 04:31      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
____ Just for giggles I searched for browsers for Mac. Onmi Web used to be free, that worked good. iCab was a bit clunky. Sea Monkey takes you back to the Netscape Navigator rebranded.


http://8help.osu.edu/1234.html

http://www.omnigroup.com/products/

____ I guess that the browser is still free.

____ Years ago omnigroup had a website that if you went there a script took over the browser (FULLSCREEN) and looked like it was deleting windows, then installing OS-8. I would steer my WinBlows friends that way.

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Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.


Benjamin Franklin,

Posts: 5848 | From: Just South of the Huron National Forest, in the water shed of the Rifle River | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
dragonman97

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Icon 1 posted December 19, 2010 09:43      Profile for dragonman97   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I use Firefox as my daily browser, and Safari for miscellaneous things that I suspect will crash Firefox. (i.e. Flash stuff like Hulu) I imagine this reason may be moot since 3.6 (with plugin crash protection), but old habits die hard.

Ssfari is just too watered down for my liking. Chrome isn't shabby, and I don't have many security concerns about it -- the only thing that bothers me is the 'omnibar' that uses search suggestions for /anything/ you type, even when it's for things in your address bar history. (i.e. If I typed 'geek' expecting 'geekculture.com' to appear, I don't want it searching Google for 'geek' simultaneously, recording that in Google's logs.)

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There are three things you can be sure of in life: Death, taxes, and reading about fake illnesses online...

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GrumpySteen

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Icon 1 posted December 19, 2010 13:38      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
TheMoMan wrote:
also Google already knows too much about me
Rhonwyyn wrote:
for the reason you listed, I think I'll stay away from Chrome.
dragonman97 wrote:
I don't want [Chrome] searching Google for 'geek' simultaneously, recording that in Google's logs.)

You all realize that searching from the address bar is just an option that can be turned off, right? And that it searches your default search engine, which you can set to something besides Google? And that Firefox, IE, Opera and Safari all have the ability to search from the address bar using your default search engine?

But hey, don't let me mess with your FUD party.

Oh, wait... there is -one- browser that I know for a fact does not allow searching from the addresss bar:
Click here to protect yourself from Google!

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TheMoMan
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Icon 1 posted December 19, 2010 15:17      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
____ GS, I often use different search engines, Bing, Yahoo, Excite, and Ask, However most times they return a hit that says powered by Google. So it seems that most searches go through Google anyway.

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Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.


Benjamin Franklin,

Posts: 5848 | From: Just South of the Huron National Forest, in the water shed of the Rifle River | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
GrumpySteen

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Icon 1 posted December 19, 2010 16:08      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
No, no... clearly you're right. Chrome is absolutely evil because it includes a feature that every other modern browser includes. How dare Google do that?!?

It probably weighs the same as a duck, too.

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Worst. Celibate. Ever.

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Callipygous
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Icon 1 posted December 19, 2010 17:33      Profile for Callipygous     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
The grumpy one is right, the amount Google knows about you really is independent of the browser you use, and the first time you start Chrome up it even asks you what search engine you want to use, which is not something I believe that many other browsers do. As I recall Chrome is also an open source project, so Google would find it hard to sneak in any tricksy code, even if they wanted to.

In any case we collectively gave up our privacy many years ago in exchange for an internet that is free to consumers. Whether that will prove to be something of a faustian pact remains to be seen, but that question should not guide your choice of browser.

I use mainly Safari because I like the way it renders web pages better than Firefox, and it has a more elegant UI than Chrome. In the end it is just a matter of personal taste, as they are all pretty fast and stable.

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TheMoMan
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Icon 1 posted December 19, 2010 17:56      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
____ Well it does seem that Google is everywhere, Google Earth,

____ If the feds wanted to see a ton of BS just watch the pipe into Google, as if it is one pipe.

____ The credit union I belong to has on the tellers screen your three credit scores and the average of the three, funny thing that at after a search that ended up powered by Google there was an ad stating did I want to check my score and the example was the same as the average that I had gotten that afternoon at the CU SPOOKY SPOOKY.
[shake head] [shake head]

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Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.


Benjamin Franklin,

Posts: 5848 | From: Just South of the Huron National Forest, in the water shed of the Rifle River | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
dragonman97

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Icon 1 posted December 19, 2010 23:57      Profile for dragonman97   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Steen: I'm fully aware of the fact that it can be turned off -- that was one of the first things I did when I first tried out Chrome.

However...it then prevents you from enjoying search suggestions when you want them. And that's why having two boxes, with obvious functionality...is a very good thing. [Smile]

My original point was actually meant to counter some tin-foil attitudes about Chrome, and cite the only concern that I deem to be valid about Chrome. You're right that it can be remedied, but there is a trade-off that isn't present in Firefox or Safari. (Or Opera, for that matter.)

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Rhonwyyn

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Icon 1 posted December 20, 2010 21:31      Profile for Rhonwyyn   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Well, after Safari crashed three times in two days, I installed Firefox. So far, so good!

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Stereo

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Icon 1 posted December 21, 2010 06:37      Profile for Stereo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Rhonwyyn:
Well, after Safari crashed three times in two days, I installed Firefox. So far, so good!

Interesting. Safari hardly ever crash on me. I can't even remember the last time it did. Any chance it would be one or two particular sites/apps that would crash it?

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Eppur, si muove!

Galileo Galilei

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maximile

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Icon 1 posted December 21, 2010 17:31      Profile for maximile   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Stereo:
quote:
Originally posted by Rhonwyyn:
Well, after Safari crashed three times in two days, I installed Firefox. So far, so good!

Interesting. Safari hardly ever crash on me. I can't even remember the last time it did. Any chance it would be one or two particular sites/apps that would crash it?
Flaaaaash!

I'm a huge Webkit fan, and used Safari forever. But crashing was definitely a problem for me, and Safari's crash protection doesn't work on 32 bit Macs for some reason. I switched to Chrome, and I don't miss too much.

Oh, and keyword searching in the URL bar was one huge thing I missed from Firefox. I'm really glad Chrome has it; I'd find it hard to go back now.

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quantumfluff
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Icon 1 posted December 21, 2010 21:47      Profile for quantumfluff     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
* Chrome is the only browser I use, for a bunch of security reasons.

* Google is an advertising network, just like facebook (and others). They *all* track the sites you visit (to various levels of success) regardless of whatever browser you are using.

Did you know, for example, that if you have signed on to facebook, then visit the New York Times web site, facebook gets a notification of that? Oh... and incognito windows (chrome) or private browsing (firefox) won't help, unless you sign out of facebook first.

* someone mentioned the "fed" watching the pipe into Google. That's a non-issue. It's much easier for the feds to monitor traffic from your ISP (read up on Carnivore). That way they can track every web site you visit. Google only know the ones you click through on search results and through ads. If you want to spy on citizens, go after the low hanging fruit - telcos and cablecos bend over a lot quicker than Google.

* BTW. You shouldn't open ANY attachement you receives without a sanitizer in place first. I use the gmail feature of 'view' for looking at PDF and DOC files rather than opening them directly. (And please, this is not tin-foil hat. This is a direct suggestion from security folk who know more about it than anyone on this forum, including me.)

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Sxeptomaniac

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Icon 1 posted December 22, 2010 08:24      Profile for Sxeptomaniac   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I use Firefox and Chrome. I've been using the Firefox 4 beta lately, and it's pretty nice. I've run into a few bugs, but it's been a good experience so far. I do most of my general surfing in Firefox, as with the NoScript and Web of Trust plugins, it helps head off a lot of the dangers out there.

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dragonman97

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Icon 1 posted December 22, 2010 15:24      Profile for dragonman97   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Quoth qf:
"Did you know, for example, that if you have signed on to facebook, then visit the New York Times web site, facebook gets a notification of that? Oh... and incognito windows (chrome) or private browsing (firefox) won't help, unless you sign out of facebook first."

Well...I use NoScript and I do *not* whitelist NYTimes. They still get to show me advertising, because they have JPG fallbacks, and that's just fine by me. Furthermore, I don't use Facebook. [Smile]

My life is surely far more pleasant without being constantly subjected to 'Like' buttons on websites and all sorts of nonsensical JS includes.

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quantumfluff
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Icon 1 posted December 23, 2010 10:02      Profile for quantumfluff     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by dragonman97:
Quoth qf:
"Did you know, for example, that if you have signed on to facebook, then visit the New York Times web site, facebook gets a notification of that? Oh... and incognito windows (chrome) or private browsing (firefox) won't help, unless you sign out of facebook first."

Well...I use NoScript and I do *not* whitelist NYTimes. They still get to show me advertising, because they have JPG fallbacks, and that's just fine by me. Furthermore, I don't use Facebook. [Smile]

Sure, but you're cheating by being clever enough to install NoScript. Most of the world hasn't figured it out.

I guess I was implying my point rather than laying out the details. It's that browsers do not to any job of cookie compartmentalization. That is, when you load a page from domain X, and it includes an image or block of JS from domain Y, the browser merrily sends your cookies on the Y domain to Y. This allows all sorts of cross domain tracking, but the community still condones it for various reasons.

It is easy to fix. A friend of mine did a very short patch to Chrome which silos cookies appropriately. He may submit it to Google, but he's a Ph.D candidate and has to publish the paper first. Microsoft has also done considerable research into secure browsers with Gazelle (http://research.microsoft.com/apps/pubs/default.aspx?id=79655). Alas, I can't find their paper which deals with cookie compartmentalization.

The thing is, advertising networks target people significantly better if the browsers are lax in this area. There is little commercial incentive to stop it. As much as I hate to say it, this is where you need a government to force the issue with consumer protection laws.

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Snaggy

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Icon 3 posted April 14, 2011 07:55      Profile for Snaggy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I switched to Chrome for most surfing... way faster and I love the superbar, although its History needs work.
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