homeGeek CultureWebstoreeCards!Forums!Joy of Tech!AY2K!webcam

The Geek Culture Forums


Post New Topic  New Poll  Post A Reply
my profile | directory login | | search | faq | forum home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» The Geek Culture Forums   » Other Geeky Stuff   » Ask a Geek!   » My VW is ALIVE! (previously: "Car Geeks! I need your help!")

 - UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!    
Author Topic: My VW is ALIVE! (previously: "Car Geeks! I need your help!")
MacManKrisK

Gold Hearted SuperFan!
Member # 955

Member Rated:
5
Icon 1 posted April 16, 2007 22:14      Profile for MacManKrisK     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
My oft-mentioned '78 VW Microbus is so almost road-ready that I could almost cry. Of coruse, the reason I'm crying is because I just can't figure out this one little issue. Everything is hooked up, she even cranks over, but there's just no fire and I've traced it down to no fuel.

I'm working with a Bosh L-Jetronic Fuel Injection system here. There's about 5 gallons of gas in the tank now, which should be plenty. There's fuel getting to and through the filter and up to the pump, but it just doesn't seem to be getting /through/ the pump. The pump runs, that is, it whirrs along when told to, so the relay is good. I tried taking the line off of the return to the tank (and rather less-than-successfully plugging the return feed) and running the pump to maybe vent any backpressure that was there (yeah, I know... wierd idea) but I got no flow. I popped the line off of the cold start valve and ran the pump to see if I got any fuel there... there's no fuel there. The pump only works one way... that is when I put the electrical connections on the other way it didn't turn on, so it almost certainly must be connected correctly.

The only things I can think of are that the pump is horribly clogged, or that it's just gone bad in 3 years of sitting around in a box.

Can anyone else come up with a theory that keeps me from spending $80 on a new pump?

--------------------
"Buy low, sell high
get rich and you still die"


Posts: 2331 | From: Southwest Michigan, USA | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
TheMoMan
BlabberMouth, a Blabber Odyssey
Member # 1659

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted April 17, 2007 04:03      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
MacManKrisK _____________________ You called? I saw this simular event on the nephews Saab.

I think that the pump may be dry locked.

Thought about this some more and decided to add this, disconnect inlet line from tank. Useing a spare piece of line and a small funnel pour about one ounce of the thinnest oil (motor) you have into the inlet port. get it all in there. then reconnect the fuel line and try, if memmory serves me correct it should run for a few seconds and shut off. then crank the motor and if still no start then do the above with one or two ounces of fuel.

--------------------
Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.


Benjamin Franklin,

Posts: 5848 | From: Just South of the Huron National Forest, in the water shed of the Rifle River | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
Dr Watson
Mini Geek
Member # 4307

Rate Member
Icon 1 posted April 17, 2007 07:42      Profile for Dr Watson     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
My Jag did this about a month ago. The pump would seemingly run, but didn't move fuel. Just replaced the pump with that of a junker car and instant fix!

I'd imagine getting an after-market pump for a vintage VW would be dirt cheap(had a '75 beetle once, miss the price of parts) , might be your best bet for reliability.

--------------------
Smoke me a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast.

Posts: 79 | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged
CommanderShroom
BlabberMouth, a Blabber Odyssey
Member # 2097

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted April 17, 2007 07:50      Profile for CommanderShroom     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I would go with MoMan's idea or even try to fill both ends with fuel before mounting it.

If neither of those work, you can try to submerge the pump in a pan of gas for a few minutes to get the prime going.

IIRC the Bosch pumps were wired up with a safety switch also to avoid building too much pressure. So you could always try and bypass the safety switch to prime it. That is a use at your own risk suggestion.

Also the Jetronics were used in a *lot* or European cars. So you could junkyard for BMW, Benz, Saab, Audi and VW of the same era for a replacement pump.

--------------------
Does he know our big secret?
Has one of us confessed?
'Bout the wires circuits and motors
Buried in our chest

Posts: 2465 | From: Utarrrrggggghhh!!!!!!!! | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
MacManKrisK

Gold Hearted SuperFan!
Member # 955

Member Rated:
5
Icon 1 posted April 17, 2007 14:54      Profile for MacManKrisK     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Okay, after consulting with These Guys, who seem to know VWs inside and out, and also looking around on the web for info on the L-Jetronic FI system, the general consensus seems to be "if it ain't pumpin', replace it." There is no "priming" procedure for this pump, aside from getting the gas from the tank /to/ the pump, which I've successfully done.

A piece of relevant info that I failed to mention before is that when I disconnected the hose between the filter and the pump during disassembly (all those years ago), there was a bunch of sandy crud in there. [ohwell] I'm still wondering how it got there, but the pump probably needed replacing anyway.

So, I drove over to Auburn Hills today (not a fun leisurely trip, let me tell you) and got a brand-new-used ( [Razz] ) genuine Bosch fuel pump for $80 (plus $20 core, plus $6 tax...). I make the trip to Mom & Dad's tomorrow, I'll let you know if^H^Hwhen that fixes it.

--------------------
"Buy low, sell high
get rich and you still die"


Posts: 2331 | From: Southwest Michigan, USA | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
TheMoMan
BlabberMouth, a Blabber Odyssey
Member # 1659

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted April 17, 2007 16:56      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
MacManKrisK _________________ Roller van fuel pumps will not self prime, they rely on fuel going out to create the suction, too bad the old one is gone because unless the rollers are worn out it will pump once primed, GM solves the problem by submerging the pump in the fuel tank so does Chrysler, not sure on Fords. I don't care if it is on a V-dub or a Saab if it isn't down hill from the fuel level to the pump so that the inside of the pump is wet with fuel it will not make enough vacuum to lift the fuel. Once primed it will pull about twenty feet vertical and push another one hundred. You should have kept the old one as a spare.

--------------------
Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.


Benjamin Franklin,

Posts: 5848 | From: Just South of the Huron National Forest, in the water shed of the Rifle River | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
MacManKrisK

Gold Hearted SuperFan!
Member # 955

Member Rated:
5
Icon 1 posted April 17, 2007 19:37      Profile for MacManKrisK     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by TheMoMan:
I don't care if it is on a V-dub or a Saab if it isn't down hill from the fuel level to the pump so that the inside of the pump is wet with fuel it will not make enough vacuum to lift the fuel. {snip} You should have kept the old one as a spare.

It *is* downhill from the fuel. The pump is about 6 vertical inches (a guesstamate) below the gas tank (make that 15 vertical centimeters... it's German after all). If I take the hose and filter off the intake side of the pump, it'll piss into a gas can (or on the floor.. [Razz] ) just fine through the force of gravity. That is, there's plenty of fuel *to* the pump, but it just isn't passing through it.

On another note, I still have the old pump, in fact it's still attached to the vehicle. I'm not going to have a crack at it until tomorrow night. I suppose I could try wetting the output side of the old pump before I put the new one on, but I really think that the old pump is just plugged up.

In a related issue, with the current price of gas, I still won't be able to afford to drive it, even when I get it running! [cry baby]

--------------------
"Buy low, sell high
get rich and you still die"


Posts: 2331 | From: Southwest Michigan, USA | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
TheMoMan
BlabberMouth, a Blabber Odyssey
Member # 1659

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted April 18, 2007 03:38      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
MacManKrisK ____________________ Take the pump out again and force some fuel injecter cleaner into the inletport. Put about two inches of fuel in a pail away from the micro bus. put the pump end in the fuel and with an extension cord run the pump off of the battery. It is possible that you have stuck rollers not likly but possible. If the bucket catches fire put a board over it it'll go out. That style of pump don't fail from sitting on a shelf. Im not sure if the one you have is openable to the rollers but with out the gasket don't.

--------------------
Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.


Benjamin Franklin,

Posts: 5848 | From: Just South of the Huron National Forest, in the water shed of the Rifle River | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
MacManKrisK

Gold Hearted SuperFan!
Member # 955

Member Rated:
5
Icon 1 posted April 18, 2007 21:11      Profile for MacManKrisK     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I sit here staring at a blinking cursor wondering what to write... I'll start with the facts and save the emotional, self-loathing rant for the end.

I swapped the fuel pump, the gas is now flowing as it should though the fuel loop. After some cranking the engine backfired. I swapped the plug wires on the distrib. 180 from where they were, but then I get absolutely nothing. Swapping them back to where they started produces intermittient backfireing, but very inconsistantly, and only aparently from one cylinder. To put it more clearly, it takes an awful lot of cranking to get one backfire out of the damn thing. The backfire is exciting in some way because it's at least *something*, though I wish I could get forward fire. I think there may still be something fucked in the fuel inj. system.

<self-loathing rant> Of course I can't fucking TEST the fucking fuel injection system because stupid fucking Kris left his fucking multimeter (that he needed last week, and SHOULD HAVE KNOWN he'd need this week) in fucking Ypsilanti, 200 fucking miles away! I'm so fucking incompetant, I have no clue what I'm doing, I should just give up this fucking thing and sell it to someone that actually knows what the fuck they're doing. </self-loathing rant>

--------------------
"Buy low, sell high
get rich and you still die"


Posts: 2331 | From: Southwest Michigan, USA | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
TheMoMan
BlabberMouth, a Blabber Odyssey
Member # 1659

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted April 19, 2007 03:38      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
MacManKrisK ______________________ Okay stop the self loathing and think. You now have fuel pressure, the injecters may or may not be working.

Step one take out plugs with key off and bus in gear low or reverse roll bus indirection it would drive if running place finger in num 1 thread feel for the air pressure. At the time the pressure turns to suction stop and check the distributer for rotor pointing is it pointing at num. 1 plug wire?

--------------------
Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.


Benjamin Franklin,

Posts: 5848 | From: Just South of the Huron National Forest, in the water shed of the Rifle River | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
MacManKrisK

Gold Hearted SuperFan!
Member # 955

Member Rated:
5
Icon 10 posted April 19, 2007 20:19      Profile for MacManKrisK     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Thank you, thank you, thank you to everybody for all the help!!!

IT LIVES!!!! [Big Grin] [Big Grin] [Big Grin]

I borrowed a friend's multimeter and found a possible bad ground connection in the FI system (and proceeded to clean it up a bit). Then, on a hunch... one of those "gut feeling" things (divine intervention, if you believe in that sort of thing)... I retarded the timing 90 (that is, moved the plug wires one port back). I turned the key, hit the starter and she fired right up! [Eek!]

/me dances
/me twirls
/me sings

I guess it goes to show that even a Compleat Idiot [sic] can sometimes land on the right answer! [Big Grin]

GROUP HUG!!!!!

--------------------
"Buy low, sell high
get rich and you still die"


Posts: 2331 | From: Southwest Michigan, USA | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
TheMoMan
BlabberMouth, a Blabber Odyssey
Member # 1659

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted April 20, 2007 03:16      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
MacManKrisK ___________________ Very common mistake to be one position off. The other test for top dead center, is to roll the engine over with a wrench until you have the marks lined up and with a small hose see if you can blow into Num. 1 If you cant then you are there if you are one eighty. Good luck with the rest of the retoration.

--------------------
Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.


Benjamin Franklin,

Posts: 5848 | From: Just South of the Huron National Forest, in the water shed of the Rifle River | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
Chesty
Assimilated
Member # 2460

Member Rated:
2
Icon 1 posted April 20, 2007 23:07      Profile for Chesty         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by MacManKrisK:

I guess it goes to show that even a Compleat Idiot [sic] can sometimes land on the right answer!

I take it by that comment that you have read The Bug Bible ??

You started to sound like the guy on cops who was working on his transporter in his friends garage and pulled a plug to check for spark. He grounded it to the block right against the block and forgot about the carbureted mix shooting out the hole. He was cussing himself and banging his head as he watched his friend's house burn to the ground.

So - a van not cranking is not the worst thing that can happen.

BTW I had an injected '74 Westfalia that actually did 90mph on the highway - I needed two lanes to contain it at that speed, but what a rush!

Posts: 416 | From: The Beach | Registered: Nov 2003  |  IP: Logged
MacManKrisK

Gold Hearted SuperFan!
Member # 955

Member Rated:
5
Icon 12 posted April 21, 2007 15:57      Profile for MacManKrisK     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
read it? I own it, and it's practically in tatters. There's grease all over it, it's been rained on, and theres little bits of masking tape melded into some of the pages.

I've, once, gotten her up to about 95. I was standing on the gas, going downhill on a smooth straightaway. By the top of the next hill I was down to 65, still standing on the gas. [Razz]

And.... yes, I know, the accelerator is really the "air" pedal, not the "gas" pedal.

--------------------
"Buy low, sell high
get rich and you still die"


Posts: 2331 | From: Southwest Michigan, USA | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
Chesty
Assimilated
Member # 2460

Member Rated:
2
Icon 1 posted April 22, 2007 23:03      Profile for Chesty         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Isn't parallel Parking a bus neat? You kinda move differently out in front of the wheels like that.
Posts: 416 | From: The Beach | Registered: Nov 2003  |  IP: Logged
Just_Jess_B

Solid Nitrozanium SuperFan!
Member # 2161

Icon 10 posted April 23, 2007 07:00      Profile for Just_Jess_B   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Congrats on getting your vehicle mobile!

--------------------
Opinion is not Truth; that is why each has its own definition. Illiteracy sucks.

Posts: 1370 | From: Whaddya mean, Arizona? | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged


All times are Eastern Time  
Post New Topic  New Poll  Post A Reply Close Topic    Move Topic    Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:

Contact Us | Geek Culture Home Page

2015 Geek Culture

Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classicTM 6.4.0



homeGeek CultureWebstoreeCards!Forums!Joy of Tech!AY2K!webcam