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Author Topic: proxy servers
stevenback7
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Icon 1 posted January 13, 2007 11:37      Profile for stevenback7   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
its me again with another question this time about hiding my ip adress.

As most of you might know i got high speed internet this fall. And with this high speed internet i have lately been using programs such as vent(a voip). This new acces to programs which were with dial up unavailable to me is great. But a problem with all these new programs is that a lot of people are now able to see my ip adress. And since some of these people think they are cool when they can hack using ip adresses, it makes me wonder if i am safe.

A week ago my guilds website got hacked and i questioned myself if someone used one of the admins ip adress to do it (i am an admin). Then i remember that about 4 years ago on the screensavers leo reviewed a proxy server which was easy to use, free, and constantly changed your ip adress. Now in my search for this program i have found nothing. So my question is what was that programs name and/ or what is a nother free proxy server program which will hide my ip adress for free and not cut down on my internet ?


Thanks for all your replies in advanced.

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Comic Book Guy: There is no emoticon for what i'm feeling.

Posts: 1199 | From: Canada eh? | Registered: May 2006  |  IP: Logged
nerdwithnofriends
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Icon 1 posted January 13, 2007 13:12      Profile for nerdwithnofriends     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
THey could see your ip when you had a dialup modem, too. It just changed every time you dialed in.

I wouldn't worry about it, if I were you. I'm no net security guru, but if you lock-down all your ports and write a decent firewall config for your router, you should be fine. Hey, maybe you can even use that laptop you want to put linux on as your router for your whole house.

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"The Buddha, the Godhead, resides quite as comfortably in the circuits of a digital computer or the gears of a cycle transmission as he does at the top of a mountain or in the petals of a flower." - Robert M. Pirsig

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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted January 13, 2007 13:31      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Trying to conceal your IP address won't keep you safe from the bad guys. These days, most of them either

a) booby-trap a web site with malware that gets loaded on your PC when you visit it

b) booby-trap an email they send you

c) write a script to scan a range of IP addresses looking for open ports or known security flaws

Last time I checked my firewall logs, I was getting 3 or 4 intrusion attempts per day, which is why I keep my firewall set to the most paranoid level.

There are a variety on online resources to help you test your firewall, Shields Up is a good place to start, and when you get really serious, try nmap online

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If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

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stevenback7
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Icon 1 posted January 13, 2007 13:45      Profile for stevenback7   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Druid _______ yes i know there are many ways for people to hack your system besides ip. And if someone really wanted to they could find my real ip even when hiding my ip adress. I just want to hide it so that i'm a little bit more protected and so the world can't see it.
Posts: 1199 | From: Canada eh? | Registered: May 2006  |  IP: Logged
stevenback7
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Icon 1 posted January 13, 2007 13:53      Profile for stevenback7   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Yeah i've ran shields up in the past, i just ran it again. And like before it is telling me everything is in perfect stealth mode and my computers is being all cool except that my computer is sending out its ip and it could be acting as a server without my knowledge.

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Comic Book Guy: There is no emoticon for what i'm feeling.

Posts: 1199 | From: Canada eh? | Registered: May 2006  |  IP: Logged
uilleann
Discontinued


Icon 1 posted January 13, 2007 14:25            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Hangonhangonhangon........

You're afraid that someone will use your IP address to hack a site? How do you propose they use your IP? If they're on the same network as you, they may manage, but otherwise, how are return packets going to be routed back to them if they're being routed to your computer? What good will setting their PC to your IP address achieve?

Am I to assume, also, that these sites are protected by nothing other than the recognition of an IP address? Don't they have, like, passwords or something? How will a person with your IP magically acquire the password?

A decent operating system is virtually impregnable from day zero. Mac OS 9 and earlier are virtually impregnable, since the only open port is echo. It's possible that OS X is the same, since all network-accessible services are disabled by default, and I believe there are now also Linux distributions that have network-accessible services disabled by default. When I installed Gentoo, I had to manually enable SSH the same as I had to in OS X. If there are no network-accessible services, there's not a lot left to break into. If you can't secure the system -- for example Windows -- get a decent firewall or a NAT router to stop anyone from accessing insecure services.

I am really not sure what you're afraid of; you sound paranoid to me, and paranoia is always unjustified. Fear of a real threat is justified, but I don't see where the threat is. Sites aren't hacked by knowledge of a magic IP, but by design flaws in the software or password cracking. The better approach is to use reliable site software and keep it patched. For example, don't use PHPNuke or PostNuke as they seem to be riddled with SQL-based vulnerabilities.

And as TFD hinted, it also matters that the software you run on your PC is itself safe from being compromised, particularly any applications which receive data remotely, which is anything from e-mail and IM to music streaming -- any program that opens a file or a TCP connection can be theoretically exploited if not written properly.

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stevenback7
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Icon 1 posted January 13, 2007 16:12      Profile for stevenback7   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
okay i am a little paranoid lol but who isn't on this forum paranoid about something. And i know that hacking of a site and ip hacking are two totally different things. I'm just a guy who likes trying out random programs for random things and figuring out if they actually work or not and how the effect my pc.

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drunkennewfiemidget
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Icon 1 posted January 13, 2007 21:32      Profile for drunkennewfiemidget     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Alright, let me try and explain this as best I can.

Your IP address on the Internet is like your home address. Hiding it would be silly, because then none of your communications would work.

When you connect to google, google needs to know wtf it's connecting back to. You can't not show your IP address.

There are anonymiser proxies out there, but even then, the anonymiser has to know your IP.

It's like hiding your address of your house in the middle of nowhere in the woods. If you hid your address, how the hell would they get you your mail? They wouldn't.

Companies using pop ups have been trying to confuse the unenlightened to use their spyware infested shit software for quite some time by popping up giant screens that says, "WARNING! YOUR COMPUTER IS BROADCASTING AN IP!"

Well, no shit. It's like saying "WARNING! YOUR CAR HAS T[YI]RES!"

That being said, as uilleann correctly pointed out, people knowing your IP should mean absolutely nothing about your site getting hacked. Faking a from address on a TCP/IP connection is useless because the ACK packet will never make it back to the correct host, and the hacker'd never be able to connect. If they fucked with your site, the more likely scenario is bad security on the part of your server. And if that's one of your own computers, then it's up to you to figure out what software let them in, and fix it.

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GrumpySteen

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Icon 1 posted January 13, 2007 21:36      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
drunkennewfiemidget wrote:
It's like hiding your address of your house in the middle of nowhere in the woods. If you hid your address, how the hell would they get you your mail? They wouldn't.

Tell that to the unibomber...

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Worst. Celibate. Ever.

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stevenback7
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Icon 1 posted January 14, 2007 08:19      Profile for stevenback7   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
So why do people hide their ip's then?
Why would someone like leo tell you to hide it?
Why would shields up tell you to hide it?
Why doesn't everyone just tell us you ip?
Why don't you just show the world your ip?
Why would you want to hide it?

I have never been attacked by a virus, hacker, cracker, etc because i protect myself. Besides the odd spyware sneaking in without my premission my computer is protected. Now when i keep running programs and suddenly it tells me your ip is blah it scares me. Just like when someone half way around the world suddenly sends you an email saying hi you live at 123 fake street.

Now you are saying that if someone half way around the world who you never even met knows where you live doesn't scare you a little then thats fine. But in my opinion i would rather not have that person know where i live and since your ip is basically your home adress I don't want them to know it either. I know chances are that if they know my ip adress nothing bad will happen. And even if they do have plans to attack me i know my computer will be giving them a tough time getting in. But its just one of those things i would rather not share with the world. And if there is a quick and easy program which allows you to do this then i would be gratefull to try it out.

p.s. I'm not a paranoid security freak, i know there is a threat, i know that i am protected against 99 percent of those threats, i just want to learn about as much as i can about technology.

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Comic Book Guy: There is no emoticon for what i'm feeling.

Posts: 1199 | From: Canada eh? | Registered: May 2006  |  IP: Logged
uilleann
Discontinued


Icon 1 posted January 14, 2007 08:57            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
So why do people hide their ip's then?

They do? No-one that I know does, even those people who are paranoid.

Why would someone like leo tell you to hide it?

If he tells you to do it without giving any reasons, then that is a bad sign. I do not like advice given without a reasoning that I can analyse.

Why would shields up tell you to hide it?

See above.

Why doesn't everyone just tell us you ip?

I have been telling everyone my IP for years, including here. Not directly but anyone smart enough hack me would realise, since my home Web and FTP servers obviously point to my IP.

Why don't you just show the world your ip?

C:\Documents and Settings\Dan> nslookup firetrack.no-ip.org
[snip annoying nonsense about my router not having a reverse DNS]
Non-authoritative answer:
Name: firetrack.no-ip.org
Address: 82.28.36.206

If I kept it secret, no-one would be able to reach my servers, or even DNAS on the rare occasion I play a radio stream.

Why would you want to hide it?

Why indeed?

There are various things you can do with an IP, such as ping flood, if you feel nasty. An IP can be targeted, but generally this is not a problem unless a particular person who knows you takes a dislike to you. I have never heard of DoS/DDoS attacks against random computers on the Net, although it did happen once when I was on dial-up -- I guess it was a mistake. Generally, attacks take place againt identified, recognised targets.

The larger threats tend not to be related to knowing anyone: IPs are just picked out at random by walking the IP space. I get attempts to break into my Mac's FTP server every so often, but hiding my IP is worthless, since they simply walked the IP space looking for any IPs with an FTP server running on port 80. This is also primarily how worms spread: they go looking for computers to infect by trying every IP in a given range to see if any are infectible.

Part of the process of anonymisation as I recall was nothing to do with countering worms and FTP hack attemps but to ensure you can surf the Web untraceably, but I never really paid any of that much attention.

I have a very decent router that's also a perfect hardware firewall. That's good -- I'm safe from most outside attacks (except actual vulnerabilities in my server software and TCP/IP stacks). And all of those are my fault for running such servers in the first place, which is entirely at my own risk. If anyone wants my IP, they just have to trawl 82.28.36.* looking for PCs ...

The real threats are from the inside: software you download, Web sites you visit that install malicious software, scam mails you receive etc. A lot of potential nastiness is let straight into your PC via "safe" channels like e-mail, IM and the Web and it's here that you have to watch out for keyloggers, scams and worms. Nothing will get through your firewall, but anything you allow in voluntarily, is no longer protected by the firewall or IP address anonymising. The evil is already past all the walls and that is where you have to face it head on.

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maximile

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Icon 1 posted January 14, 2007 09:37      Profile for maximile   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I guess you've all seen things like this, right?

 -

Anyone on here could embed an image into a post, and collect all sorts of info. It'd be trivial to run a server script that would do something every time a new IP address downloads the image, so changing it every 8 minutes wouldn't be much use.

Things like firewalls are much more effective and convenient for security. As is common sense, of course. Sensible internet use etc.

Posts: 1085 | From: London, UK (Powys, UK in hols) | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
dragonman97

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Icon 1 posted January 14, 2007 10:43      Profile for dragonman97   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
stevenback7: You sir, are an idiot.*

Please stop babbling at the mouth about things you know little about. Don't just repeat a few things you heard from other people that you barely understand - read up and get a solid understanding of the matters at hand.

Get a simple router and put it ahead of your computer(s), and 95% of your worries will be resolved. It is utterly pointless to try and 'hide your IP' - as everyone else has pointed out, your IP is used in every transaction you do online. However, if you have a router doing NAT/SPI, then nothing can get to your computer unless you've initiated the transaction yourself (or opened ports).

I recommend that you chill out. [Smile]

*That's not to say that you are completely incompetent, but you are presenting yourself as a fool presently.

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There are three things you can be sure of in life: Death, taxes, and reading about fake illnesses online...

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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted January 14, 2007 12:24      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by stevenback7:
So why do people hide their ip's then?

Why would shields up tell you to hide it?


Do they?
I've just re-visited shields up, went through all the usual pages, didn't see a word of warning about the dangers of them seeing my IP address.
As others have noted, without the IP address, shields up would be unable to run any of their other tests.

Can you provide a quote?
I'd be interested to see what they say.

Why would you want to hide it?

Well, if you're up to some mischief, then hiding your IP is a good idea.

'Mischief' could be spreading child porn, attacking other peoples computers, sharing your mp3 collection or, in some parts of the world, voicing your disapproval of the government. There are many reasons people would like to cover their tracks when using the internet. Protecting yourself from outside attack just isn't a very good one. As noted above, many black-hats and viruses scan IP ranges, so if you're vulnerable, you'll get bitten anyway.

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If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

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TheMoMan
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Icon 1 posted January 14, 2007 13:07      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
stevenback7_______________________If you are really paranoid take a look at this the last twenty minutes of my router log

Sun 14 Jan 2007 03:46:58 PM EST Unrecognized access from 144.201.91.185:30823 to UDP port 1026
Sun 14 Jan 2007 03:50:23 PM EST Unrecognized access from 219.46.28.14:27211 to UDP port 1026
Sun 14 Jan 2007 03:51:30 PM EST Unrecognized access from 221.12.113.247:47878 to UDP port 1027
Sun 14 Jan 2007 03:52:03 PM EST Unrecognized access from 202.97.238.201:36679 to UDP port 1026
Sun 14 Jan 2007 03:56:13 PM EST Unrecognized access from 64.24.208.39:2173 to TCP port 135
Sun 14 Jan 2007 03:57:34 PM EST Unrecognized access from 202.97.238.202:53486 to UDP port 1027
Sun 14 Jan 2007 03:59:37 PM EST Unrecognized access from 48.235.39.119:30823 to UDP port 1026
Sun 14 Jan 2007 03:59:46 PM EST Unrecognized access from 84.171.84.22:2283 to TCP port 139
Sun 14 Jan 2007 03:59:49 PM EST Unrecognized access from 84.171.84.22:2283 to TCP port 139
Sun 14 Jan 2007 03:59:52 PM EST Unrecognized access from 84.171.84.22:3083 to TCP port 445
Sun 14 Jan 2007 03:59:55 PM EST Unrecognized access from 84.171.84.22:3083 to TCP port 445
Sun 14 Jan 2007 04:00:41 PM EST Unrecognized access from 99.157.28.152:30823 to UDP port 1026
Sun 14 Jan 2007 04:02:07 PM EST Unrecognized access from 60.12.194.5:42893 to UDP port 1026
Sun 14 Jan 2007 04:03:13 PM EST 192.168.123.141 login successful
Sun 14 Jan 2007 04:03:34 PM EST Unrecognized access from 152.202.27.62:30823 to UDP port 1026


Now I veiw that as the router doing its job.

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Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.


Benjamin Franklin,

Posts: 5848 | From: Just South of the Huron National Forest, in the water shed of the Rifle River | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
uilleann
Discontinued


Icon 1 posted January 14, 2007 13:28            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Hm, I have logging on mine turned off, the default I presume. Never realised it had a log feature, and it was tricky to find. For convenience, the Mac is set as my DMZ, so the Mac has all the stats for accesses, if I understood them.

In the last 16 days (OS 9's uptime), the TCP connection figures:

Attempts: 870
Opened: 821
Accepted: 4133
Closed: 4997
Aborted: 587

Weird stats... I guess they mean something to someone :)

Edit: Something I should point out -- being paranoid about security is dangerous. Don't make the mistake of grabbing the nearest thing that claims to make you secure without understanding what it does and why, and what all the threats really are, else you strongly risk feeling a sense of false security. Supposing we found you an IP anonymiser, would you be any safer? Probably not, and you may well be missing out on sealing up true security holes from believing that you're safe now due to an IP anonymiser.

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stevenback7
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Icon 1 posted January 14, 2007 18:38      Profile for stevenback7   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
dragonman97_______ you sir, need to chill out !!!

I'm just trying to learn here, your explanations about ip security have been very much appreciated. I'm not stupid, like i said i haven't been hit by anything besides the odd spyware in the last year and a half so i must be doing something right.

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quantumfluff
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Icon 1 posted January 14, 2007 20:56      Profile for quantumfluff     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
With all due respect, if you've got "the odd spyware" on your machines, your *not* doing something right.
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uilleann
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Icon 1 posted January 14, 2007 21:34            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Windows is tricksy like that. Something I never fail to appreciate is that on the Mac, to this day as it was in the 80s, I can install any application I like and run it without fear. (Aside from fear of system crashes but that's a different issue ;)

Windows software terrifies me. I wanted a program to pop up a taskbar icon when I had new mail, since I was using Web-based mail. There are plenty for Windows, but, I don't want to have to research every single one trying to find out if it's got spyware or is otherwise malicious. Every app I could install for Windows leers at me with a hideous face, or looks like a big booby trap.

I could try SourceForge, but for some stupid reason they failed to allow you to filter searches by OS, so "ID3 tag" brings up tons of Linux results that are useless to me. I'd have to wade through all the results trying to find Windows ones.

I err on the side of caution. I've even FTPed music to my Mac (OS 9, no SMB) to change the tags since I know the program on there works brilliantly. So I tend to have less software, less goodies and less fun than I should have, and in fact do have in Mac OS 9 or X.

Research for me often shuts off my brain and that fact then scares me away from trying again (I hate the feeling of being in a mental quagmire), and I just really can't be bothered to go to all the trouble of vetting every potential application to see if it's safe.

Something that does make a world of difference about Mac OS and the various other UNIX-like systems is that you can install anything you desire and not worry about it being evil. You only have to worry that it won't accidentally rm -rf ~ (or /, if you have to install as admin) or otherwise hose the computer. That issue -- system safety from bugs -- is a whole other topic ...

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Stibbons
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Icon 1 posted January 15, 2007 03:08      Profile for Stibbons   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by maximile:
I guess you've all seen things like this, right?
 -

Off-topic: When I saw that, I thought "Wow, that looks like my IP address (131.111.193.xxx) - maximile must be on the university network too!"

I didn't recognise the exact IP as I'm using my girlfriend's machine [blush]

Posts: 1143 | From: UK | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
stevenback7
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Icon 1 posted January 15, 2007 05:16      Profile for stevenback7   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by quantumfluff:
With all due respect, if you've got "the odd spyware" on your machines, your *not* doing something right.

odd spyware means usually for me an odd program or service i haven't set my computer to accept as non-spyware. Which is a very good record if you look at other people's computers.

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Comic Book Guy: There is no emoticon for what i'm feeling.

Posts: 1199 | From: Canada eh? | Registered: May 2006  |  IP: Logged


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