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Author Topic: Calling all Geeks! There is a computer problem!
Ingwe
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Icon 1 posted October 16, 2006 18:57      Profile for Ingwe     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I wanted to build another computer, this being my third, and I spent some money and got the parts. After putting the motherboard in my case I realized that the 24 pin power connector was only 20 pins and that the 4 pin power connector (the square one that gives the cpu power) doesn't reach its appropriate spot. What should I do? I bought the case off of geeks.com which is a pretty reputable site. The motherboard, cpu, cideo card, and ram are all off of newegg.com.
Thanks for the help. I look forward to the responses.
Ingwe

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"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence then is not an act but a habit." ~Aristotle

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quantumfluff
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Icon 1 posted October 16, 2006 19:29      Profile for quantumfluff     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
You should get a good power supply with a long enough cable. I'm not just being glib. Most cases come with crap power supplies. I replace them with ultra-quiet ones from PC Power and Cooling.
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Ingwe
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Icon 1 posted October 17, 2006 03:55      Profile for Ingwe     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
It is 450 Watts so I don't want to just get rid of it. Is there anyway to simply extend the wire?

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"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence then is not an act but a habit." ~Aristotle

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TheMoMan
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Icon 1 posted October 17, 2006 04:18      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Ingwe_____________________Take some thing back and get the right one. The power supply is not the right one if the pin count is wrong. Are you building a computer or a frankinstien, DO IT RIGHT.

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Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.


Benjamin Franklin,

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DoctorWho

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Icon 1 posted October 17, 2006 11:07      Profile for DoctorWho     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Ingwe:
It is 450 Watts so I don't want to just get rid of it. Is there anyway to simply extend the wire?

450 watts might not be enough depending on what components are going in your system. You should check here to make sure it will be sufficient and remember to add a bit extra to cover any future upgrades. If you do find that 450 watts will do, there are quite a few vendors where you can get an extender.

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Laughter is like changing a baby's diapers. It doesn't solve anything but it sure improves the situation. Leo F. Buscaglia

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Metasquares
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Icon 1 posted October 17, 2006 11:55      Profile for Metasquares   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I had this problem last year when I was building my last system. Apparently, the ATX spec changed (v2.0) with the introduction of the PCIe bus. Part of this change involved a new 24 pin connector.

You MAY be able to find a converter from a 20 + 4 pin layout, but it's probably best to get a 24 pin supply.

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AgingAmigaoid
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Icon 1 posted October 17, 2006 12:31      Profile for AgingAmigaoid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Ingwe:
Is there anyway to simply extend the wire?

Yes there is but I agree with Quantumfluff. A short power lead is a sign of a cheap power supply. I currently have a machine that I put in an $18 case, I can't tell you the number of times I curse myself for buying that case. It has a nasty rattle that is aleaved by laying it on its side but I really wish I'd just done it right the first time.
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stevenback7
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Icon 1 posted October 17, 2006 12:56      Profile for stevenback7   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I think if you are going to build the computer right then you should get a new case. Especially if the motherboard, graphics card, cpu, and ram are fairly expensive then it will be worth the extra wait for a new case.

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Ingwe
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Icon 1 posted October 17, 2006 12:58      Profile for Ingwe     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I am pretty sure 450 Watts should be enough. It is an AMD 64 3400+(Venice core, I think) running at 2.2 GHz.
I think I will shop for a new power supply. I didn't realized that they switched the number of pins.
Thanks for the help,
Ingwe

--------------------
"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence then is not an act but a habit." ~Aristotle

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Ingwe
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Icon 1 posted October 17, 2006 13:01      Profile for Ingwe     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I think I found one that I wanted. Does this look ok to you?
http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?invtid=APGD680&cat=PWR

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"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence then is not an act but a habit." ~Aristotle

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Metasquares
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Icon 1 posted October 17, 2006 17:56      Profile for Metasquares   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
That should work. I've never heard of the brand before, though, and 680W is somewhat excessive unless you plan on running a really high-end SLI setup or something.

When I shop for power supplies, I'm generally more interested in the stability of the rails (and, recently, the efficiency and power factor of the supply, because wasted power is the worst type) than the raw wattage, just so long as you have more than the sum of your components' individual ratings. IMO, you'd be better off with something like a 450W Truepower II supply (my personal favorite brand, but expensive!) than a 680W generic one. The SmartPower supplies may be a good choice if the TruePower line is too expensive.

The system I'm typing this on has an Athlon 64 3800+ with a GeForce 7600GS video card and a 480W Antec TruePower supply. It consumes far less than that, even at full load.

The best tool for evaluating all aspects of a power supply is a digital multimeter. You can see just how stable your voltages are, at rest or full load, from a simple meter reading. If you don't have one, get one - any self-respecting geek has one already anyway [Smile]

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DoctorWho

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Icon 1 posted October 17, 2006 18:22      Profile for DoctorWho     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I never heard of that brand either. It also worries me that it is only $20. There could be nothing wrong with it, but a cheap price on the power supply means that they probably don't really test them all that well. A bad power supply could fry your computer. If you put any kind of serious money into building your computer, you want to protect it with a solid power supply and a good UPS. I built a serious gaming rig earlier this year and I used an Ultra X-Finity brand power supply. They are quite good as they use dual rail technology to distribute power more efficently to the components. I highly recommend them. Mind you they are not cheap; expect to pay around $70 - $100 for one but it's definitely worth the investment. You can go here to get a good price on the Ultra power supplies.

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Laughter is like changing a baby's diapers. It doesn't solve anything but it sure improves the situation. Leo F. Buscaglia

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Ingwe
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Icon 1 posted October 18, 2006 04:00      Profile for Ingwe     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Wow! I never knew a power supply could fry your computer. Thanks for the advice. I will definitely put more time and money into shopping for one.

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"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence then is not an act but a habit." ~Aristotle

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TheMoMan
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Icon 1 posted October 18, 2006 04:10      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Ingwe_______________________You may want to stop at this page and look up exactly what you need to know and buy.


http://www.formfactors.org/FFDetail.asp?FFID=1&CatID=2

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Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.


Benjamin Franklin,

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DoctorWho

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Icon 1 posted October 18, 2006 05:51      Profile for DoctorWho     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Ingwe:
Wow! I never knew a power supply could fry your computer. Thanks for the advice. I will definitely put more time and money into shopping for one.

I had a friend who thought nothing of buying cheap power supplies and in fact his first two computers ran fine. His third one that he built when he turned it on it released "the mysterious blue smoke". Once electronics release the mysterious blue smoke, they do not work anymore. The power supply actually left little scorch marks on the motherboard and the expansion cards. He was fortunate that he was a regular customer with the company that sold him the parts so they replaced them at 10% of the cost. After that experience, he only bought name brand power supplies.

--------------------
Laughter is like changing a baby's diapers. It doesn't solve anything but it sure improves the situation. Leo F. Buscaglia

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TheMoMan
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Icon 1 posted October 18, 2006 06:30      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Ingwe & CrawGator______________________Did you not know that computers and other electronics run on smoke. You let the smoke out and they don't work any more. At least that has been my experience, YMMV.

--------------------
Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.


Benjamin Franklin,

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GameMaster
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Icon 1 posted October 18, 2006 11:19      Profile for GameMaster   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
AT should have 2 6 pin connector
Old ATX should 20 pins.
New ATX should be 24 pins.

There are adaptors, but it's generally a better idea to get a UPS designed and tested for the type of board your using.

Powersupplies, fans and hard drives are also one of the first things to go.

Hardrives have a lot of sensitive moving part parts, they just get ware out. About the only interesting things they do is make noises as they go into the night. Generally, their failuers don't effect the rest of the system.

Powersupplies can go in a couple of ways. First, the fan can go, which means that the PSU and/or the whole computer will overheat.

Second, the PSU can begin supplying the wrong amount of power. Too little won't hurt the computer, and the only thing that you need to replace is the PSU. Too much, on the other hand, can fry the motherbord, ram and/or processor.

A good PSU is a bit more than a cheap case with a cheap PSU; but, a good PSU is a lot less expensive than a new motherboard, processor and ram. Also, surge protectors and/or a UPS (Universal Power Supply) will help prevent data loss (if battery backup and software shutdown), hard drive failure (if battery backup and software shutdown), ware on PSU and the compuer in general.

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