homeGeek CultureWebstoreeCards!Forums!Joy of Tech!AY2K!webcam

The Geek Culture Forums


Post New Topic  New Poll  Post A Reply
my profile | directory login | | search | faq | forum home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» The Geek Culture Forums   » Other Geeky Stuff   » Ask a Geek!   » Networking...

 - UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!    
Author Topic: Networking...
Titanium Warrior
Alpha Geek
Member # 1885

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted August 08, 2006 09:54      Profile for Titanium Warrior   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I'm trying to figure out an inexpensive and simple way to connect two separate home networks together. Each has a mac on either end and I want them to be connected together so they can see each other and also the Tivos on each end. The theory is if we are on the same network our TiVos can talk to each other and share things with each other. The thought was to create a VPN between the two macs and treat them as gateways.

I'm looking for any suggestions on how to do this? I really don't want to buy additional hardware if I can avoid it. It's just a simple pet project.

Thanks
-TiW

Posts: 333 | From: Victoria, BC Canada | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
dragonman97

SuperFan!
Member # 780

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted August 08, 2006 10:05      Profile for dragonman97   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
And you can't use Cat-5 because?

--------------------
There are three things you can be sure of in life: Death, taxes, and reading about fake illnesses online...

Posts: 9331 | From: Westchester County, New York | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Titanium Warrior
Alpha Geek
Member # 1885

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted August 08, 2006 10:31      Profile for Titanium Warrior   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by dragonman97:
And you can't use Cat-5 because?

I think it's the 135 feet limitation [Wink]

We are geographically located 3 km away from each other.

-TiW

--------------------
I used to have super powers until my therapist took them away.

Posts: 333 | From: Victoria, BC Canada | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
Cap'n Vic

Member # 1477

Icon 1 posted August 08, 2006 10:36      Profile for Cap'n Vic     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Titanium Warrior:
quote:
Originally posted by dragonman97:
And you can't use Cat-5 because?

I think it's the 135 feet limitation [Wink]


100 metres is the limitation for Cat5.


Just sayin'

Posts: 5471 | From: One of the drones from sector 7G | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
Titanium Warrior
Alpha Geek
Member # 1885

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted August 08, 2006 10:48      Profile for Titanium Warrior   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Cap'n Vic:
quote:
Originally posted by Titanium Warrior:
quote:
Originally posted by dragonman97:
And you can't use Cat-5 because?

I think it's the 135 feet limitation [Wink]


100 metres is the limitation for Cat5.


Just sayin'

That's right... got it backwards... I think I always thought it was 315 feet, always seem to get 135 and 315 mixed up... eitherway 100 metres is still too short for my purposes.

--------------------
I used to have super powers until my therapist took them away.

Posts: 333 | From: Victoria, BC Canada | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
Rhonwyyn

Solid Gold SuperFan!
Member # 2854

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted August 08, 2006 12:14      Profile for Rhonwyyn   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Can't you get one of those really powerful antennas and set up a wireless network? www.netconex.com uses radio transmitters/receivers to broadcast wireless networks up to 20 miles away, but you have to have line-of-sight to use it. Maybe you could do something similar?

--------------------
Change the way you SEE, not the way you LOOK!

Posts: 3849 | From: Lancaster, PA | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
nerdwithnofriends
Uber Geek
Member # 3773

Icon 1 posted August 08, 2006 12:22      Profile for nerdwithnofriends     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Rhonny: I think the FCC would have something to say about that. You can't just go throwing radio waves around willy-nilly; you need a license. Even using waves in the 2-cm band, which is what I think wireless devices use (or am I totally off?), I think you'd exceed your directional broadcast power limit.

I think tunneling over ssh would work. I think you can use pppd and ssh to re-route network connections. The kicker with vpns is getting your machine to tell when it needs to route traffic through the tunnel, or when to go through the normal gateway. This is made much easier by using different address schemes on the different networks.

Just my $0.02 USD.

--------------------
"The Buddha, the Godhead, resides quite as comfortably in the circuits of a digital computer or the gears of a cycle transmission as he does at the top of a mountain or in the petals of a flower." - Robert M. Pirsig

Posts: 948 | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged
Ugurcan

Member # 4746

Member Rated:
5
Icon 1 posted August 08, 2006 12:26      Profile for Ugurcan   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
If you have a fast internet connection at both ends, try hamachi.

http://www.hamachi.cc/

--------------------
"Constants aren't, Variables won't..."

Posts: 219 | From: Under a 110 ft satellite dish... | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
Titanium Warrior
Alpha Geek
Member # 1885

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted August 08, 2006 13:04      Profile for Titanium Warrior   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Ugurcan:
If you have a fast internet connection at both ends, try hamachi.

http://www.hamachi.cc/

Thanks Ugurcan... this looks the cat's ass.... I'll give it a try and see how it works.

Cheers
-TiW

--------------------
I used to have super powers until my therapist took them away.

Posts: 333 | From: Victoria, BC Canada | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
dragonman97

SuperFan!
Member # 780

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted August 08, 2006 14:52      Profile for dragonman97   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
You can also just treat Linksys WRT54Gs as a wireless bridge.

Somehow I thought you meant something like this, but you didn't specify that they were in separate buildings... you said 'two seperate home networks.' To me, that quite probably meant "Upstairs network" and "Downstairs network" (or some other close approximation).

I've seen the Hamachi link before, and it seems interesting...but I'd rather have something that's truly free (ideally open source, or just hardware based). I really wonder if they're offering it for free now, and plan on changing to a commercial system at some point in the future - there's just too little information for me to trust it. (I find open source tends to be the most trustworthy, and a company with a well supported product as a close second.)

--------------------
There are three things you can be sure of in life: Death, taxes, and reading about fake illnesses online...

Posts: 9331 | From: Westchester County, New York | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Titanium Warrior
Alpha Geek
Member # 1885

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted August 08, 2006 15:04      Profile for Titanium Warrior   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by dragonman97:
You can also just treat Linksys WRT54Gs as a wireless bridge.

how does one go about making it into a bridge? Is this something that I can configure easily in the Linksys setup? and would I need to have two of the same linksys to do this? How does this work over the internet exactly?

I like the idea of free... but what I'm trying to do is simulate what my work does for me when I'm at home. I VPN into a cisco VPN and I can access everything at the office from home as if I was hooked up to the same network. However I don't want to pay the price for a Cisco router... so free sounds better to me.

-TiW

--------------------
I used to have super powers until my therapist took them away.

Posts: 333 | From: Victoria, BC Canada | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
Titanium Warrior
Alpha Geek
Member # 1885

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted August 08, 2006 15:07      Profile for Titanium Warrior   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I guess the other issue...

I'm no network genius by any means, but I'm guessing the other problem is how does each machine know each other's presence over the distances? My work VPN allows me access to everything, but only if I know the address for them. So there is no browse feature? However the TiVo does have a manual configuration screen that allows for manual address screen.

I'm an artist-geek, not a network-geek and I'm worried that this might be over my head. I suspect that there's lot of configuration that I will need to go through... tell me if I'm wrong about that.

Cheers
-TiW

--------------------
I used to have super powers until my therapist took them away.

Posts: 333 | From: Victoria, BC Canada | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
dragonman97

SuperFan!
Member # 780

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted August 08, 2006 16:17      Profile for dragonman97   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Don't try to just copy stuff that you know works...it's not always the right solution... sometimes a new one is needed

Basically, bridged wireless gives you an invisible patch cable. [Wink]

If the distance isn't too far for WiFi placed on the near ends of both houses, you ought to basically get one big network out of it. If both houses have Internet access, that might take a little finagling if you want to go out both ends...but if you just do it through one house, it's easy as pie.

I know the mode is built-in, but I don't have ready access to one to give you a screen capture. I will offer this helpful tip, though: read the manual! (I'm serious... I know I read about it ages ago in one such manual.)

--------------------
There are three things you can be sure of in life: Death, taxes, and reading about fake illnesses online...

Posts: 9331 | From: Westchester County, New York | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Jace Raven

Solid Nitrozanium SuperFan!
Member # 2444

Icon 1 posted August 08, 2006 16:37      Profile for Jace Raven         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
You could get 2 Catalyst 3750G, 2 Short haul, high load GBit cards, some indoor or outdoor fibre (depending on the environment) and run the fibre from one place to the other. Splice in some connectors depending on your GBits, configure your switches with 2 vlans each, one for hosts, one for maintaince, give each vlan seperate IPs configure your hosts appropiatly and BAM

Two networks connected. Given if they are different "domains" you will need a router between the two, otherwise you'll be fine with just the switch.

Posts: 1791 | Registered: Nov 2003  |  IP: Logged
Rhonwyyn

Solid Gold SuperFan!
Member # 2854

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted August 08, 2006 16:41      Profile for Rhonwyyn   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Jace Raven:
You could get 2 Catalyst 3750G, 2 Short haul, high load GBit cards, some indoor or outdoor fibre (depending on the environment) and run the fibre from one place to the other.

That MIGHT be feasible if he lives on a farm or some such where cabling stretched across the land (or buried under) wouldn't cause issues.

quote:
Originally posted by Titanium Warrior:
quote:
Originally posted by dragonman97:
And you can't use Cat-5 because?

I think it's the 135 feet limitation [Wink]

We are geographically located 3 km away from each other.

-TiW



--------------------
Change the way you SEE, not the way you LOOK!

Posts: 3849 | From: Lancaster, PA | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
Tut-an-Geek

SuperFan!
Member # 1234

Icon 1 posted August 08, 2006 17:42      Profile for Tut-an-Geek   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Keep in mind that to stream tivo would probably require at least a full 10Mbit/sec (Am not sure). Your internet connections may pose a limitation here. And if you use wireless, you'd want to make sure that it's fast enough and of high enough quality (ie, not many lost packets) to support the video feed.
Posts: 3764 | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
quantumfluff
BlabberMouth, a Blabber Odyssey
Member # 450

Member Rated:
5
Icon 1 posted August 08, 2006 18:28      Profile for quantumfluff     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by nerdwithnofriends:
Rhonny: I think the FCC would have something to say about that. You can't just go throwing radio waves around willy-nilly; you need a license. Even using waves in the 2-cm band, which is what I think wireless devices use (or am I totally off?), I think you'd exceed your directional broadcast power limit.

Says who. The airwaves belong to the people. The FCC is predicated on artificial scarcity - it keeps the broadcasters in business. For 3km, I would try to set up two wireless bridges with the biggest amplifiers I could get and some highly directional antennae. Let someone find me and shut me down.

For interesting reading on radio, try these two links:
http://dir.salon.com/story/tech/feature/2003/03/12/spectrum/index.html
http://www.xent.com/jan99/0423.html

Posts: 2901 | From: 5 to 15 meters above sea level | Registered: Jun 2000  |  IP: Logged
Jace Raven

Solid Nitrozanium SuperFan!
Member # 2444

Icon 1 posted August 09, 2006 05:24      Profile for Jace Raven         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Rhonwyyn:
quote:
Originally posted by Jace Raven:
You could get 2 Catalyst 3750G, 2 Short haul, high load GBit cards, some indoor or outdoor fibre (depending on the environment) and run the fibre from one place to the other.

That MIGHT be feasible if he lives on a farm or some such where cabling stretched across the land (or buried under) wouldn't cause issues.

quote:
Originally posted by Titanium Warrior:
quote:
Originally posted by dragonman97:
And you can't use Cat-5 because?

I think it's the 135 feet limitation [Wink]

We are geographically located 3 km away from each other.

-TiW


Because you can just bury or lay indoor fibre across the ground...

I'm sorry, Queen Godess of Networking, for not making it clear that I was joking. It is completely unfeasable not because of the enviroment in which to run the fibre, as fibre can be run anywhere. There are many different types of fibre. SM, MM 2/4/8/12/.../144 strands indoor/outdoor. Extrememly scalable and shielded in many different ways. Though I will say that some outdoor fibre /can/ be layed on the ground, I would not suggest deploying it in a manner other than atleast 18" beneath earth.

The cost however is rediculous. You would have to sell your first born to afford 100m of any indoor/outdoor fibre solution. The connectors aren't extrememly expensive if you can afford $40 a pop depending on the type. A good LC Connector can cost you a good $35 a piece and you need at least 4 of them.

The Gigabit switch, 24 ports? Overkill. Not to mention that it costs about $4,500 for one and all that comes with is the device, a 30 page manual, a DB5 connector, a terminal cable, and a power cable. You still have to purchase the GBit cards wich will run you about $250. You need two.

So lets see if I can come up with an invoice for this little Project:
4 Fibre Connectors...............$ 140.00
2, 3650G Gigabit Switch....... $9,000.00
Length of Fibre Optic cable... $First,borne.child
2 GBic Modules................... $ 500.00
----------------------------------------------------
Total: Your life savings

That's asuming that you have all the recquired materials to splice said fibre. You know, a scope, fusion splicer, cleaver, crimper. Or maybe you're not going to do the Snap-on route and do the Hot-Melts. Then you'll only need the connector Oven, Scope, Polishing pads, connectors etc.

That's going to cost you another...uh... lets see... $50,000 and that's if you dont buy a fusion splicer.

While I'm on the topic of unfeasable solutions, you could implement a Cisco 3400 IPTV.

Posts: 1791 | Registered: Nov 2003  |  IP: Logged
littlefish
BlabberMouth, a Blabber Odyssey
Member # 966

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted August 09, 2006 05:48      Profile for littlefish   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
The university I am at has two campusses separated by about a mile or two.

A computer science lecturer once told me that the cabling to network the sites cost more than all of the computers at both ends.

And we have some rather expensive computers too.

Posts: 2421 | From: That London | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
The Famous Druid

Gold Hearted SuperFan!
Member # 1769

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted August 09, 2006 05:58      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
You might be surprised how far unamplified wifi can travel

--------------------
If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

Posts: 10669 | From: Melbourne, Australia | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
The Famous Druid

Gold Hearted SuperFan!
Member # 1769

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted August 09, 2006 06:05      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by quantumfluff:
quote:
Originally posted by nerdwithnofriends:
Rhonny: I think the FCC would have something to say about that. You can't just go throwing radio waves around willy-nilly; you need a license.

Says who. The airwaves belong to the people.
Yes, all of the people, not just you.
There's already enough problem with neighboring wifi rigs stepping on each others toes without adding the wifi equivalent of the teenager with a 3kW car stereo.

--------------------
If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

Posts: 10669 | From: Melbourne, Australia | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
Spiderman

Solid Nitrozanium Superfan!
Member # 1609

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted August 09, 2006 10:19      Profile for Spiderman     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by nerdwithnofriends:
Rhonny: I think the FCC would have something to say about that. You can't just go throwing radio waves around willy-nilly; you need a license.

Uhm. You are very very wrong.

http://www.fcc.gov/oet/info/rules/part15/part15-2-16-06.pdf

Shorter version of the pdf (which is admittedly a pain in the ass to navigate): 900 MHz, 2.4 GHz, 5.2/5.3/5.8 GHz, 24 GHz and above 60 GHz are all unlicensed.

At the company I work for (ISP) We run 50Mbit 20+ mile backhaul links with completely legal, unlicensed gear.

The equipment we use would probably be perfect for Titanium Warrior except for the possible line-of-sight issue, and the cost. The very low end for the equipment we use is going to be around $4-5K...

--------------------
Math problems? Call 1-800-[(10x)(13i)^2]-[sin(xy)/2.362x]

Posts: 846 | From: Chicago | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
nerdwithnofriends
Uber Geek
Member # 3773

Icon 1 posted August 09, 2006 11:53      Profile for nerdwithnofriends     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
My mistake. I just figured that with so many people trying to use wireless communications, the FCC would have it tightly regulated, at least with an output power regulation. Oh well.

--------------------
"The Buddha, the Godhead, resides quite as comfortably in the circuits of a digital computer or the gears of a cycle transmission as he does at the top of a mountain or in the petals of a flower." - Robert M. Pirsig

Posts: 948 | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged
Titanium Warrior
Alpha Geek
Member # 1885

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted August 09, 2006 16:02      Profile for Titanium Warrior   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Spiderman:
quote:
Originally posted by nerdwithnofriends:
Rhonny: I think the FCC would have something to say about that. You can't just go throwing radio waves around willy-nilly; you need a license.

Uhm. You are very very wrong.

http://www.fcc.gov/oet/info/rules/part15/part15-2-16-06.pdf

Shorter version of the pdf (which is admittedly a pain in the ass to navigate): 900 MHz, 2.4 GHz, 5.2/5.3/5.8 GHz, 24 GHz and above 60 GHz are all unlicensed.

At the company I work for (ISP) We run 50Mbit 20+ mile backhaul links with completely legal, unlicensed gear.

The equipment we use would probably be perfect for Titanium Warrior except for the possible line-of-sight issue, and the cost. The very low end for the equipment we use is going to be around $4-5K...

ouch... that sounds cool... but I just finished spending 2K on a TV I don't want to spend another 5K for it... heheheh call me a miser!

[Smile]

-TiW

--------------------
I used to have super powers until my therapist took them away.

Posts: 333 | From: Victoria, BC Canada | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
Maggs
Geek
Member # 4682

Member Rated:
5
Icon 1 posted August 09, 2006 18:50      Profile for Maggs     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Check this site out.
http://www.nickcoons.com/blogs/comments.php?blog_id=43 It has information on how to make a Linksys WRT54G a Wireless bridge.

I actually saw a similar setup live inside a community college for a UNIX class I was taking.

Posts: 193 | From: NYC | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged


All times are Eastern Time  
Post New Topic  New Poll  Post A Reply Close Topic    Move Topic    Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:

Contact Us | Geek Culture Home Page

2015 Geek Culture

Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classicTM 6.4.0



homeGeek CultureWebstoreeCards!Forums!Joy of Tech!AY2K!webcam