homeGeek CultureWebstoreeCards!Forums!Joy of Tech!AY2K!webcam

The Geek Culture Forums


Post New Topic  New Poll  Post A Reply
my profile | directory login | | search | faq | forum home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» The Geek Culture Forums   » Other Geeky Stuff   » Ask a Geek!   » OS X, Entourage, Keychain, and passwords

 - UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!    
Author Topic: OS X, Entourage, Keychain, and passwords
Rhonwyyn

Solid Gold SuperFan!
Member # 2854

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted August 01, 2006 15:30      Profile for Rhonwyyn   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
A coworker and I had this e-mail exchange tonight:

Her: ARGH problem here:

Ever since the first time I changed my password after switching to OSX, I keep getting harassed by this "Keychain" thing wanting my password. The whole program is not user friendly, and I don't even understand the purpose of it in the first place, but I thought I had figured out how to change the password, and done so. But it's still bugging me. It used to ask for it at different times, and sometimes it wanted my old password and sometimes it wanted my new one. I also thought I told it to remember and not ask me for it. Now that I "changed" the password, it now asks me for it only once a day, and then it is satisfied. And it only wants my old password now. But I do not want to have to remember all different passwords! If I could get it to change, in all cases, to my new one, I could safely tell it to Save Password (with your help). Can you offer me any relief?!?!


Me: This is what I’ve learned about Keychain and Entourage. They’re counterintuitive. You’d think that after changing your password it would want your new password. Somehow, though, Entourage still takes my old SYSTEM password and Keychain takes my NEW system password. Apparently, every 90 or 180 days Entourage wants a new password. I gave it a new password, but it ignored that one and requested my former password. Like so:

Day 1- I get Entourage on my computer. I set PW (a). It’s the same as my login PW to my computer.
Day 90- Change login PW; now I have PW (b), which logs me into Keychain, too; Entourage still only takes PW (a)
Day 175- Entourage warns me to contact my administrator to change my Entourage password. I ignore it.
Day 180- Entourage won’t let me log in. I go to IT. The guy says “Oh, it’s Keychain that’s prompting for a new password.” He logs me out of my machine, then sends me back to create a new password. I log into my computer with a new PW (d)*, Keychain prompts for a new PW (d), then Entourage—as usual—asks me for my password. I try PW (d). However, it refuses to let me in until I enter PW (b). Not sure why this works like this, but it does. I haven’t had to log into Keychain since then ‘cause I told it to remember my password.

I’m not sure that answers your question, but maybe it helps clear it up a bit?

*Password C doesn’t exist because Entourage automatically converts a “c” surrounded by parentheses into a copyright symbol.

Her: Well, it doesn’t answer my question as far as how to FIX it, but I am just so glad to know it’s not just me!!! I was afraid I wouldn’t even be able to explain it right — it’s too weird to believe -- but you so obviously understand and this all sounds so familiar.

So are you saying I am doomed to have to remember my old password forever? It’s too dangerous to tell it to remember that one — if I don’t use it every day I certainly won’t remember it if I ever need to. Reading through this, I got an idea: If I can’t fix it, and it insists on having 2 different passwords, can I at least make one P87yu4t and P87yu4tK for keychain? Or something???

I can’t ask anyone down here — they’ve all had OSX so long they can’t remember how it was to be a newbie, and I can expect no sympathy.

As for the “Password C,” LOLOL. (There must be a way to set this s/w to not “help” us like that, but who has time to fiddle with it all?!)


Me: No, you only need to remember:

[u]L/K | En[/u]
A A
B A
C B
D B
E D
F D
G F
H F
Etc.

You’re changing your login/keychain password every 90 days, but you’re only changing your Entourage every 180 days. Apparently Entourage uses your last-known-good keychain password. So really, you’re using some every other password for 90 days, and the others you’re using for 270 days each, but in different places. Make more sense?

Her: Actually, no. Now it makes less sense. I’m TOTALLY confused now. Can I change the 180-day one more often if I want? To keep them changing together? Because if I create them in a way such that I can remember them more easily, it won’t do any good if one of them’s that much older. Or something :S

Do I have my story straight or have I confused some things? There's no IT person on second shift, and the ones on days are thoroughly stuckup and have no time for second shift proofreaders. I've only used Entourage for a little less than a year, so I don't know too much more than my coworker; I only know the little bit I've experienced and that IT has grudgingly told me. Is there an easier/better way to explain how the passwords work?

--------------------
Change the way you SEE, not the way you LOOK!

Posts: 3849 | From: Lancaster, PA | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
Callipygous
BlabberMouth, a Blabber Odyssey
Member # 2071

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted August 01, 2006 16:44      Profile for Callipygous     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Which versions of OSX and Entourage are you using?

--------------------
"Knowledge is Power. France is Bacon" - Milton

Posts: 2922 | From: Brighton - UK | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
Rhonwyyn

Solid Gold SuperFan!
Member # 2854

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted August 01, 2006 16:47      Profile for Rhonwyyn   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Oy. You'd think I'd know by now to include that info. Thanks for asking me to clarify, Calli! [Smile]

I'm running Mac OS 10.3.9 and MS Entourage 2004 for Mac, version 11.2.1. I assume my coworker is running the same thing (she has an iMac and I have a Mini).

--------------------
Change the way you SEE, not the way you LOOK!

Posts: 3849 | From: Lancaster, PA | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
dragon34
Geek
Member # 997

Member Rated:
5
Icon 1 posted August 01, 2006 18:55      Profile for dragon34     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
why oh why would you use entourage when mac os mail is *sooo* much nicer, and doesn't store *all* your mail in a single binary file so if anything bad happens you can kiss your email goodbye?

Since this does seem to be a work thing, where you probably don't have a choice, and assuming a Micro$oft shop; what it sounds like is the company's mail server (likely exchange) requires a password change every so many days, which is separate from the keychain/ mac logon/ active directory password. When the exchange server password gets changed, the password stored in the keychain is no longer valid, so it asks for the correct one. If you are logging on with active directory to the computer and the exchange server/entourage is *supposed* to use the same password, something might be wrong on the system end, something like the password synchronization from changing your logon password didn't go through to the exchange server, but without knowing specifics of the workplace setup, I can't offer too much.
I don't have exchange at work (thank goodness) and we avoid entourage if at all possible, but I really don't think its possible for the mac os x keychain to accept 2 different passwords simultaneously, unless entourage uses its own "special" keychain. (wouldn't surprise me) to specifically *look* like it is mac compatible but yet not be. *shrug*

good luck...

Posts: 146 | From: Central PA | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
Rhonwyyn

Solid Gold SuperFan!
Member # 2854

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted August 01, 2006 19:50      Profile for Rhonwyyn   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Okay, so I opened Keychain Access. The only stored key is for Exchange, which is our mail server that Entourage accesses. I asked it to show passwords and it prompted me for a password. I put in my previous system login password and it allowed me to see the Exchange password, which is my newest password, set just a few days ago.

I think now even I'm confuzzled! [crazy]

--------------------
Change the way you SEE, not the way you LOOK!

Posts: 3849 | From: Lancaster, PA | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
littlefish
BlabberMouth, a Blabber Odyssey
Member # 966

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted August 02, 2006 01:26      Profile for littlefish   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I remember having some issues with keychain when I started using OSX. So much so that I just ignored it, and decided to remember my passwords.

It is a nice idea (sort of), but the implementation seems bad, and the possibility of a catastrophic failure losing ALL your passwords, seemed too high a risk for me.

Hope you sort it out though!

Posts: 2421 | From: That London | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
Rhonwyyn

Solid Gold SuperFan!
Member # 2854

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted August 02, 2006 01:51      Profile for Rhonwyyn   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
The silly thing is, our Keychains at this point only remember a password for one specific application! There's nothing else it's used for except for Entourage/Exchange. Now isn't that the dumbest thing?!*

*Eh, it's a PA Dutch expression, but it's the best one for this situation!

--------------------
Change the way you SEE, not the way you LOOK!

Posts: 3849 | From: Lancaster, PA | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
Tut-an-Geek

SuperFan!
Member # 1234

Icon 1 posted August 02, 2006 04:55      Profile for Tut-an-Geek   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Did you try...
Open Keychain Access, select "login" then "Edit > Change Password for keychain "login"". Set the password to the same one as the system log on password. Then go "Edit > Change Settings for keychain "login"" and make sure that "Lock after xx minutes of inactivity"

Can I assume that you are using an Exchange server? The changing the password every x days is most likely a property of the server (it def. is on Exchange, I don't think so on courier? maybe?).

Posts: 3764 | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
GMx

Solid Nitrozanium SuperFan!
Member # 1523

Member Rated:
4
Icon 4 posted August 02, 2006 11:03      Profile for GMx     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
MacFixit - Keychain issues; resolving
Posts: 5844 | From: S-4, Area 51 | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
dragonman97

SuperFan!
Member # 780

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted August 02, 2006 11:26      Profile for dragonman97   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by GMx:
MacFixit - Keychain issues; resolving

Total aside:
That site had an ad for a Vonage USB key phone...looked pretty cool. So, I clicked it, and was taken to a registration page, with no link to details on the product, nor links to Vonage's own site. This is very poor design. I edited the URL, and their site still didn't give a lot of information. It also required Flash just for the sake of rollover buttons.

[thumbsdown] [thumbsdown]

--------------------
There are three things you can be sure of in life: Death, taxes, and reading about fake illnesses online...

Posts: 9331 | From: Westchester County, New York | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
uilleann
Discontinued


Icon 1 posted August 02, 2006 11:52            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Nah, Java for rollover buttons (which I saw recently) has them beat. Throw 50 MB down the pan to haul the VM's ass into RAM. Both ultimately suck in the sense that without Flash or Java, you have no idea where the links go... I chewed out the site designer on that one, but he did fix it [Smile]
IP: Logged
GMx

Solid Nitrozanium SuperFan!
Member # 1523

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted August 02, 2006 13:25      Profile for GMx     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I couldn't tell, since I block all ads. [ohwell]
Posts: 5844 | From: S-4, Area 51 | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
Callipygous
BlabberMouth, a Blabber Odyssey
Member # 2071

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted August 02, 2006 17:51      Profile for Callipygous     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Tut-an-Geek:
Did you try...
Open Keychain Access, select "login"

Rhonnie is using 10.3 not 10.4. I may be mistaken but I think the default keychain in 10.3 has as its name your short user name, not "login".

--------------------
"Knowledge is Power. France is Bacon" - Milton

Posts: 2922 | From: Brighton - UK | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged


All times are Eastern Time  
Post New Topic  New Poll  Post A Reply Close Topic    Move Topic    Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:

Contact Us | Geek Culture Home Page

© 2015 Geek Culture

Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classicTM 6.4.0



homeGeek CultureWebstoreeCards!Forums!Joy of Tech!AY2K!webcam