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Author Topic: Dead iBook g4?
G-3PO
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Icon 1 posted April 22, 2006 12:31      Profile for G-3PO     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
The prong on the power cord of my friend's iBook g4 snapped off inside the jack. It's still under warranty, but an apple "genius" said that Apple was going to look at it as abnormal use and charge him for the (expensive) repair. So I offered to open it up for him and remove the pin - which I did.

I was as careful as possible - I used an anti-static bracelet hooked up to my desktop chassis and did my damned best to put everything back together where it went. Despite putting two incorrectly sized screws back into place (and thus leaving me without the proper sized ones to securely reattach the foil shield), I'm pretty sure I put everything else back into place correctly, but on charging the battery and trying to turn it on, only the fan seems to turn on. The lighted keys on the keyboard (caps lock, etc.) seem to work as well, but other than that, nothing else turns on.

A quick search came up with a few threads about iBook g4 logic boards dying - shit.

Do you think I killed the 'book? Will apple still repair it as if it were under warranty, or will my having taken it apart completely raped it?

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For large values of one, one equals two, for small values of two.

Posts: 187 | From: Augusta, GA | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
Maggs
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Icon 1 posted April 22, 2006 17:51      Profile for Maggs     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
If the warranty mentions "no user-servicable parts" then your screwed. But you did this for a friend right, then you really don't USE that computer [Wink] , so the User didn't void the warranty [devil wand]
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quantumfluff
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Icon 1 posted April 22, 2006 19:03      Profile for quantumfluff     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I've opened every computer I've ever used since 1976. Except notebooks - they are not made for anyone to service.
<yoda>There is fix it, or fix it not. There is no try.</yoda>
You've borked your friends iBook. He's SOL.

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Rhonwyyn

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Icon 1 posted April 22, 2006 19:47      Profile for Rhonwyyn   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Double-check that your hard drive is positioned properly. When my Pismo first arrived, it acted the same way. Turns out something was loose.

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Posts: 3846 | From: Lancaster, PA | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
dragon34
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Icon 1 posted April 22, 2006 19:57      Profile for dragon34     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Don't panic quite yet.
Do you have the adapter to plug it into an external monitor? Is it just the display that isn't working? I've seen iBook G4s frequently turn the backlight off for some reason, and it looks like it's not working unless you look real close, try pressing the F2 key, that controls the backlight brightness. If that doesn't work:

Do you get a boot chime at all?
If you do, after the boot chime, hold down apple-option P and R until it chimes again. (actually, try this even if you don't, because if his computer was muted when it last shut down it won't chime, but it will if the pram reset is successful and there isn't another problem) (called resetting pram)
If you don't, reset the power manager, by holding down ctrl-option-shift power (with the computer off, but plugged in, hold down the power button for 10 seconds or so to turn it off) then try to turn the computer back on

/apple certified tech who is rather sick of apple refusing to have an accidental damage policy, especially for this particular issue when they have practically admitted that the power adapter for recent laptops was prone to this sort of damage by redesigning it for the macbook pro
//wrapped my ankle around her power cord 2 weeks after I got my iBook, pulling it off the desk, and watching in horror as it fell in slow motion. fortunately it only destroyed the power adapter, not the computer.

I think it's fairly unlikely that you killed the logic board, another good thing to test, is hold down "T" as it is booting up, and connect a firewire cable to another mac. If it mounts as a firwire drive, the computer is probably fine, but perhaps the display connector or HD got knocked loose or something. You could also try booting off a CD and see if it responds (if your friend has the original disks)

Good luck

[edit] If it has a 60 GB toshiba drive in it back it up real quick. I've seen about 7 or them go bad at this point in iBooks and PowerBooks, mostly from 2 years ago. The one in my 12" powerbook has died twice now. <muttering>stupid hard drives. They don't make them like they used to</muttering> [/edit]

Posts: 146 | From: Central PA | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
Rhonwyyn

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Icon 1 posted April 22, 2006 20:25      Profile for Rhonwyyn   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Or.... following on the F2 idea: try going through F8 a few times. That'll toggle through the Out to Monitor/iBook LCD/Dual display options. Or is that just a function on Windoze machines?

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macmcseboy

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Icon 1 posted April 22, 2006 21:03      Profile for macmcseboy     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
/me is an ACPT/ACDT....

You need a new DC in board. You like damaged A. the wires or B. the DC plug still has a short. The DC in board is around 35$ and it will cost you about an hour in labor. I have done this repair in warranty and out. Next time google a manual...

BTW Apple Store I belive send the books to a CPRC. Here in Canada I do it inhouse. I fix what I sell.

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G-3PO
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Icon 1 posted April 22, 2006 21:06      Profile for G-3PO     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by dragon34:
Don't panic quite yet.
Do you have the adapter to plug it into an external monitor? Is it just the display that isn't working? I've seen iBook G4s frequently turn the backlight off for some reason, and it looks like it's not working unless you look real close, try pressing the F2 key, that controls the backlight brightness. If that doesn't work:

Do you get a boot chime at all?
If you do, after the boot chime, hold down apple-option P and R until it chimes again. (actually, try this even if you don't, because if his computer was muted when it last shut down it won't chime, but it will if the pram reset is successful and there isn't another problem) (called resetting pram)
If you don't, reset the power manager, by holding down ctrl-option-shift power (with the computer off, but plugged in, hold down the power button for 10 seconds or so to turn it off) then try to turn the computer back on

/apple certified tech who is rather sick of apple refusing to have an accidental damage policy, especially for this particular issue when they have practically admitted that the power adapter for recent laptops was prone to this sort of damage by redesigning it for the macbook pro
//wrapped my ankle around her power cord 2 weeks after I got my iBook, pulling it off the desk, and watching in horror as it fell in slow motion. fortunately it only destroyed the power adapter, not the computer.

I think it's fairly unlikely that you killed the logic board, another good thing to test, is hold down "T" as it is booting up, and connect a firewire cable to another mac. If it mounts as a firwire drive, the computer is probably fine, but perhaps the display connector or HD got knocked loose or something. You could also try booting off a CD and see if it responds (if your friend has the original disks)

Good luck

[edit] If it has a 60 GB toshiba drive in it back it up real quick. I've seen about 7 or them go bad at this point in iBooks and PowerBooks, mostly from 2 years ago. The one in my 12" powerbook has died twice now. <muttering>stupid hard drives. They don't make them like they used to</muttering> [/edit]

I don't have the display adaptor, but I don't hear anything other than the fan turning on - which it does at full blast. Resetting the PRAM/PMU did nothing, and I'm getting no chime. Firewire target disk mode has saved me before, but this time it availed me not - my 733Mhz g4 won't even recognize it. I'll try cracking it back open tomorrow, double checking all the connections I can. While I'm in there, should I try to remove all evidence of my "fix?" Think the Apple techs will realize I cracked the thing open?

Edit: Macmcseboy - By the DC in board I'm assuming you mean that seperate little board that the actual power plug was set in. Are you sure that's it, given the symptoms? If so, it'd be a hell of a lot nicer to tell my friend that I can do a $35 repair for him (or that he can get somebody apple certified to do it in about an hour) than that he needs to send it in to Apple for a $400 logic board replacement.

Edit^2: A quick google shows one company selling the DC in jack for about $80. I'd rather be absolutely sure about this before telling my friend to commit his money on that as a fix - is there anything I can do to test?

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Posts: 187 | From: Augusta, GA | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
dragon34
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Icon 1 posted April 23, 2006 09:34      Profile for dragon34     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I don't think anyone will realize it's been cracked before unless there is damage to the case and the screws are put back in the wrong place... I don't know which iBooks have been taken apart before unless i've been the one that did it, I've also seen this happen when the RAM isn't seated properly. If you are taking it apart anyway, if your friend does need to send it out, I would back up the hard drive if at all possible. (Apple tends to do a software restore on everything they touch and in the process delete data.) You can get usb to ide adapters like this one:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16812156101

which have a laptop hard drive connector (I have one of those, they are a lifesaver, but then, I tend to take apart computers for a living) Apple's warranty sucks sometimes, but generally if you yell loud enough they take care of it. [ohwell]

As far as the DC-In board being the problem, if the battery charges when it's plugged in, I'd be surprised if that was the problem, have you tried running it without the battery? It is certainly cheaper to replace the DC-In board than the logic board, so it might be worth a shot, just be careful when replacing the tape and everything if you think it's going to need to be sent back.

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MacManKrisK

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Icon 1 posted April 23, 2006 10:54      Profile for MacManKrisK     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by dragon34:
Apple's warranty sucks sometimes, but generally if you yell loud enough they take care of it. [ohwell]

Just ask Tut-an-Geek, they replaced his G3 iBook with a G4 iBook when the screen "mysteriously shattered" due to a "Manufacturer Design Flaw."

Take lots of measurements and pictures of things that /could/ be /potential/ "design flaws" and tell them how disappointed you are that Apple would produce a product like this and keep bitching and bitching and bitching and they'll eventually give in.

--------------------
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get rich and you still die"


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magefile
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Icon 1 posted April 23, 2006 12:26      Profile for magefile     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by dragon34:
(Apple tends to do a software restore on everything they touch and in the process delete data.)

Even if it's purely a hardware switch (I.e., replacing a part)? That seems a bit overboard ...
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dragon34
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Icon 1 posted April 23, 2006 12:30      Profile for dragon34     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by magefile:
quote:
Originally posted by dragon34:
(Apple tends to do a software restore on everything they touch and in the process delete data.)

Even if it's purely a hardware switch (I.e., replacing a part)? That seems a bit overboard ...
Every laptop I have sent back to apple has come back with a factory fresh system on it. Seems like a waste of time to me for a hardware problem, but apparently that's what they do. They make sure it works with their clean blessed system, and then if you say something is still not working, they can blame your software. *shrug*
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macmcseboy

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Icon 1 posted April 23, 2006 13:40      Profile for macmcseboy     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Anyone who is selling a DC in board for more than 35$ is ripping you off. That is WAY over profit margins, meaning they are GREEDY. I charge 35$ for this part and 1hour of labor to install. All prices in Canadian Dollars.

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Geordie

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Icon 1 posted April 23, 2006 18:00      Profile for Geordie     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Personally I would use the disassemble and reassemble it again very carefully technique. It is known to work wonders.

Then again if it is an iBook you can probably get Apple to repair it under the Expanded iBook Logic Board Repair Extension Program http://www.apple.com/support/ibook/faq/

I've had a number of them I have had to send back several times for repair, but the techs never really give me any trouble if I just answered the questions the way they wanted me too...
Fortunately your symptom is one of the approved ones. Just have to make it look like it has not be opened by a non-apple certified service person.

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Geordie

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G-3PO
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Icon 1 posted April 23, 2006 18:48      Profile for G-3PO     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
The problem is that g4 iBooks aren't covered under the extended logic board repair program.

If it were, I don't think it would matter if the warranty were intact, and Apple would have to pay for the repair. As it is, Apple refuses to acknowledge that there's a problem with the g4 iBook logic boards as well as the g3 iBooks...

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macmcseboy

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Icon 1 posted April 23, 2006 20:30      Profile for macmcseboy     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
To the best of my knowlege there is no issue similar to the iBook G3 500-900MHz present in the G4. To say that there is a problem with G4 ibook would mean that more than 10% of all boards exhibit the same reproductible problem. I have seen less than 5% of iBooks g4's that we have sold, come back with any logic board releated issues.

If there was a proble apple wopuld have created an REA/REP for it.... They have done this with any and all known issues over the years.

First off... you should not have gone in there while the unit was under warranty... even if apple was going to bill for a repair... that could have been disputed. All that needed to be done was a simple call to customer relations.

Now that you've been in ther you made the problem worse. Extricating a power adapter pin from the DC in connector actually can cause more damge to it. Thus, the dc in board should have been replaced. I know this from EXPERIENCE, i do this for a living.

Replace the DC in and your problem will be solved.

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Posts: 1127 | From: Victoria BC... | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
G-3PO
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Icon 1 posted April 24, 2006 14:14      Profile for G-3PO     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Thanks, then. I'll let you know how it turns out.


...and yes, it was stupid of me to go in knowing that it would kill the warranty, but I figured that given that Apple would bill him for the repair, it was probably better to just try to pop the pin out, if I was careful. I guess I know better now...

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MacManKrisK

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Icon 1 posted April 24, 2006 14:59      Profile for MacManKrisK     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
G-3PO:

http://cgi.ebay.com/iBOOK-PARTS-G3-g4-14-DUAL-USB-DC-POWER-BOARD-MODULE_W0QQitemZ9714971123QQcategoryZ80050QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/Apple-Ibook-G4-12-DC-IN-Board-922-6647_W0QQitemZ8799100152QQcategoryZ25439QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/Apple-G4-iBook-DC-in-Board-and-Cable-12-warranted_W0QQitemZ9714553545QQcategoryZ80034QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

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get rich and you still die"


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G-3PO
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Icon 1 posted April 24, 2006 16:36      Profile for G-3PO     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Thanks. It's the same board for both the 12 and 14 inch models, correct?

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macmcseboy

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Icon 1 posted April 24, 2006 16:54      Profile for macmcseboy     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
no... the one for the 14 is longer

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Geordie

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Icon 1 posted April 24, 2006 19:51      Profile for Geordie     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by G-3PO:
The problem is that g4 iBooks aren't covered under the extended logic board repair program.

If it were, I don't think it would matter if the warranty were intact, and Apple would have to pay for the repair. As it is, Apple refuses to acknowledge that there's a problem with the g4 iBook logic boards as well as the g3 iBooks...

I could have sworn that the last one I sent back was one of the G4s but I don't have my records here at home. I know that all of our iBooks have had logic board failures at least once and some of them were G4s. Perhaps those were under AppleCare and I did not notice.

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Geordie

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macmcseboy

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Icon 1 posted April 24, 2006 21:02      Profile for macmcseboy     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Geordie:
quote:
Originally posted by G-3PO:
The problem is that g4 iBooks aren't covered under the extended logic board repair program.

If it were, I don't think it would matter if the warranty were intact, and Apple would have to pay for the repair. As it is, Apple refuses to acknowledge that there's a problem with the g4 iBook logic boards as well as the g3 iBooks...

I could have sworn that the last one I sent back was one of the G4s but I don't have my records here at home. I know that all of our iBooks have had logic board failures at least once and some of them were G4s. Perhaps those were under AppleCare and I did not notice.
Here is the document y'all need to read...

http://www.apple.com/support/ibook/faq/

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Ronda
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Icon 1 posted July 22, 2006 09:22      Profile for Ronda     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Did you ever manage to get the iBook fixed?

Usually when the adapter tip breaks off in the port, it damages the power input (DC-in) board so that it needs to be replaced.

It's not covered under the warranty or AppleCare because it is considered "accident or abuse." (Usually, it happens when someone trips over the cord.)

Hope you got it fixed okay.

Posts: 3 | From: Nebraska | Registered: Jul 2006  |  IP: Logged


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