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Author Topic: happy valentine's day! here's your divorce papers!
-ct-
BlabberMouth, the Next Generation
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Icon 2 posted February 14, 2006 18:12      Profile for -ct-   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
so my bro go kicked out of his apt. on new years' eve
called me practically crying about it (understandable) the next day
i helped with what i could, but wasn't much
i know he talked to dad afterwards, but i don't think he was ble to do much either
since then, he's been w/my mom and losing weight due to stress

i don't know the whole details about the why, but that's irrelevent right now
the bitch wants a divorce, and served him papers today - goes to court for that sometime in may

he went to court for custody hearing today - and lost of course, hey, it's MA - the bitches always win everything
when he was working, he'd give all his $ to her (could be as much as $600/wk, according to mom) and when not working (offseason) he'd be at home taking care of the kid (who will be 2 in april)

he's now to be paying $44/wk child supp., goes up when he gets back to work (seasonal landscaping etc)
he gets to see his kid from 4:30pm friday to 4:30pm sunday, yay

oh, and she's got a restraining order on him - presented on jan 1st

apparently, all the $ he was giving her all along she was saving so she could get a lawyer
she's been planning on this for a long time and he never saw it coming

anyone in western MA who might be able to get custody back for him (it's wrecking him not having his daughter) and/or help out in the divorce proceedings so he won't get fucked over?

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Rhonwyyn

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Icon 1 posted February 14, 2006 18:17      Profile for Rhonwyyn   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
A friend of mine is a lawyer in Tennessee, so I'm not sure how helpful he'd be, but he may be able to put you in touch with someone. You can contact him through his website: http://www.giannaviolins.com (he makes and sells violins, too).

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Change the way you SEE, not the way you LOOK!

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Icon 1 posted February 14, 2006 18:28      Profile for TMBWITW,PB     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Oh man that sucks. [Frown] I wish I knew a way to help, I'm sorry.

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"Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and it may be necessary from time to time to give a stupid or misinformed beholder a black eye."
—Miss Piggy

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csk

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Icon 1 posted February 14, 2006 18:43      Profile for csk     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I can't help specifically, but boy, that's one of the worst situations I've ever heard. And I've heard/experienced some doozies. Hope he's able to find some legal help...

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6 weeks to go!

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dragonman97

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Icon 1 posted February 14, 2006 20:23      Profile for dragonman97   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Little bit of advice: Treat women with a bit more respect, will ya? She may have done a rather unplesant deed there, but at the very least, I think you can call her 'the woman,' instead.

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There are three things you can be sure of in life: Death, taxes, and reading about fake illnesses online...

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Callipygous
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Icon 1 posted February 14, 2006 20:26      Profile for Callipygous     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
What a simply vile surprise. I am very sorry you and more especially your brother are going through this.

However, although he's your brother, and despite the anger you are feeling, it is not right to call women in general bitches. Apart from anything else, your brother and those around him need to try and keep a clear head right now, and that doesn't help. It is also important to remember that though the marriage may be over, if at all possible that child should have continuing contact with both parents, so while the anger you and he feel cannot and should not be bottled up, your long term aim is for the parents to be able to be civil with each other, so don't be self indulgent and let your emotions run away with you. There are more important things at stake.

I wish you and him all the luck in the world in this quite horrible situation.

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"Knowledge is Power. France is Bacon" - Milton

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ASM65816
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Icon 1 posted February 14, 2006 22:15      Profile for ASM65816   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Here's a good one for you: Japan -- Army junior enlisted gets to bring his wife along for a three year tour. Move off post because it gets them immediate housing. She starts sleeping around with local Marines. She does it enough to get the attention of multiple leaders. Military deports her to US. He still has to pay for off post quarters because the lease is only canceled if he gets orders to leave (military won't pay the rent once he's living by himself). Civil authorities don't accept that one in Japan and the other in US proves separation. He has to pay lawyers in US and jump through hoops for separation papers. Meanwhile, she gets all medical and dental benefits, post privileges, and a housing allowance ($$$) in the US. Her permanent address isn't permanent, because she keeps showing up in different states. (In other words, she gets money from the Army to pay her rent, but she just moves in with "boyfriends".) Essentially every legal document sent to her for divorce proceedings cannot be delivered by officers of the law because they can't find her. He takes leave (vacation days) to appear in US courts; she has a lawyer to appear to postpone the court date (longer than he can stay in the US). The money he spends as a retainer isn't "enough" for the lawyer to complete divorce papers, so the lawyer asks for money (and gets) three more times. On the fourth time, when the lawyer asks for money, it doesn't get any more money because absolutely ZERO progress has been made towards a divorce.

His wife was deported before I arrived in Japan. When I left after two years the divorce was not complete....

I can't comment on the situation mentioned by -ct-, but the term "bitch" can be an exceptionally generous understatement for some people. [ohwell]

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Once a proud programmer of Apple II's, he now spends his days and nights in cheap dives fraternizing with exotic dancers....

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Callipygous
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Icon 1 posted February 15, 2006 02:49      Profile for Callipygous     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by ASM65816:
I can't comment on the situation mentioned by -ct-, but the term "bitch" can be an exceptionally generous understatement for some people. [ohwell]

I really doubt things are that simple ASM. From my own experience I can think of one selfish devious and manipulative woman, for whom that description might be appropriate if you are too tired to think, but it is sadly greatly outnumbered by the number of violent and vindictive men I have encountered whose behaviour was as bad or worse. Nobody behaves like an angel when a marriage goes wrong, and dreams die, and especially when there are children involved. It is also very seldom that it is solely the fault of one party. While -ct-'s main duty is to support his brother, he should be wary of painting his brother's ex as wholly bad, when of course he has only heard his side of the story.

He should know that the access his brother currently enjoys is not ungenerous. Losing her child every weekend, which is the time when you can generally have the most fun together cannot be easy for his ex. Courts also would not grant a restraining order without some evidence that his ex had reason to be afraid of him. In the middle of all this is the child, who you can be certain, is soaking up this emotional soup. If his brother truly cares about his daughter, he should try to keep her welfare above his own understandable (and possibly justified) desire for revenge.

In my view this situation requires everyone to try to stay cool and focussed on what matters, his brother's daughter, and what she needs.

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"Knowledge is Power. France is Bacon" - Milton

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Metasquares
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Icon 1 posted February 15, 2006 05:29      Profile for Metasquares   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
This is one of the reasons you need a prenuptial agreement before marriage.
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drunkennewfiemidget
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Icon 1 posted February 15, 2006 06:34      Profile for drunkennewfiemidget     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Jesus, people. The man is expressing his anger towards a person because of what she has done about someone he cares about. He called her a bitch. Leave him be. The choice words I'd use would be far worse. I'm sure all of her friends are badmouthing his brother.

This political correctness shit is getting tired.

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csk

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Icon 1 posted February 15, 2006 07:19      Profile for csk     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by drunkennewfiemidget:
Jesus, people. The man is expressing his anger towards a person because of what she has done about someone he cares about. He called her a bitch. Leave him be. The choice words I'd use would be far worse. I'm sure all of her friends are badmouthing his brother.

This political correctness shit is getting tired.

*nothing to see here, irrelevant post before edit*

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6 weeks to go!

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drunkennewfiemidget
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Icon 1 posted February 15, 2006 07:23      Profile for drunkennewfiemidget     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by csk:
quote:
Originally posted by drunkennewfiemidget:
Jesus, people. The man is expressing his anger towards a person because of what she has done about someone he cares about. He called her a bitch. Leave him be. The choice words I'd use would be far worse. I'm sure all of her friends are badmouthing his brother.

This political correctness shit is getting tired.

It's not just the wording, it's the attitude. Believe me I'd love to call my ex-wife a bitch and do nothing but badmouth her. Would it feel good? Undoubtedly. Would it help or hinder my relations with my daughter and with my ex-wife herself? Would hinder for sure. Like it or not children of broken relationships have rights to relate to both parents, and sometimes it's a matter of biting one's tongue and picking one's battles.
I fail to see how any of this is relevant to -ct-'s situation.
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maximile

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Icon 1 posted February 15, 2006 07:28      Profile for maximile   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Callipygous:
However, although he's your brother, and despite the anger you are feeling, it is not right to call women in general bitches.

I'm not sure whether you mean that it's wrong to use 'bitch' as a general term for a woman, regardless of her bitchiness (in which case I'd agree), or if you mean that in no circumstance should 'bitch' be used about someone (in which case I wouldn't).

I got the feeling that ct was saying that his brother's ex is a bitch, which seems understandable, rather than using 'bitch' as a throwaway term.

Does that make sense?

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drunkennewfiemidget
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Icon 1 posted February 15, 2006 07:50      Profile for drunkennewfiemidget     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by maximile:
quote:
Originally posted by Callipygous:
However, although he's your brother, and despite the anger you are feeling, it is not right to call women in general bitches.

I'm not sure whether you mean that it's wrong to use 'bitch' as a general term for a woman, regardless of her bitchiness (in which case I'd agree), or if you mean that in no circumstance should 'bitch' be used about someone (in which case I wouldn't).

I got the feeling that ct was saying that his brother's ex is a bitch, which seems understandable, rather than using 'bitch' as a throwaway term.

Does that make sense?

My sentiment exactly.
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zesovietrussian
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Icon 1 posted February 15, 2006 07:52      Profile for zesovietrussian     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Two words: chainsaw decapitation. 'Nuff said.

On a more serious note, he should've seen it coming - no matter how hard people try to hide things like this from their significant (or rather not-so-significant) others, there's always something that gives it all away. In that case, it's patially his fault for just sitting on his ass and not taking any steps to counter her actions. Now, if she actually somehow managed to fool the poor fellow and he had no idea what was in store for him, he should seriously consider the chainsaw option...

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drunkennewfiemidget
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Icon 1 posted February 15, 2006 07:53      Profile for drunkennewfiemidget     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by zesovietrussian:
Two words: chainsaw decapitation. 'Nuff said.

You are officially my hero for the day.
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Astronomer Jedi
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Icon 1 posted February 15, 2006 08:11      Profile for Astronomer Jedi   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Revenge is a dish best served cold.
Don't get angry, get even. Do little things that will drive her crazy.

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Estne volumen in toga, an solum tibi libet me videre?

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Mac D
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Icon 1 posted February 15, 2006 08:46      Profile for Mac D     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Any one can take a restraining order on anyone. Go to the courthouse and just get one if no crime was commited then they charge a fee for it. I was told to take one out on my ex durring custody hearings for my son (She never showed up and it still took 3 years to get custody) but it was for "Painting" an image for the judge. If they see that restraining order it just makes the person it's against look bad. His brother may not have done anything any lawer will tell you to do this.

My wife (Soon to be ex) would never do this. Shes not a bad mother by any means but she gets very stressed about it and can only do it for short periods of time. So I get my youngest son all the time. Every one wins and no courts involved. I do give her money I have it as a direct deposit from my check (Now theres a record of it just in case) to her account. But I would say all in all I'm having a good divorce (Not saying divorce is good but it could be a LOT worse).

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There's nothing wrong with me, This is how I'm supposed to be.

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Callipygous
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Icon 1 posted February 15, 2006 16:34      Profile for Callipygous     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by drunkennewfiemidget:
This political correctness shit is getting tired.

You can call it political correctness, but the language you use affects how you see people, which is why I don't like it. My main gripe was at his use of the word referring to women in general when he said "the bitches always win everything", but I'll admit I just don't like it, and I do not think he is doing himself or his brother any favours by using it about the ex either. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but the meaning of the word bitch as I understand it is something along the lines of sex crazed vindictive troll witch from hell, but without the irony. I actually find it more offensive than the c word, which to me conveys a meaning of cringing embarrassment that no other word conveys, though I realise I am probably in a minority of one over that. However the main point is that using language like that will not help his brother come to an accommodation with the ex which ultimately he must do, and who in all probability is just a fallible human with her own story of which we know nothing. So all this talk of revenge and chain saws is absolutely stupid and irresponsible, particularly because, as anyone who has read -ct-'s posts in the past must know, he operates on a short fuse anyway.

I think too many of you have had your minds corrupted by watching all these Hollywood action blockbusters from Star Wars onwards, with their cartoon depictions of battle between simple goodness and irredeemable evil. It seems to have infected all aspects of US life and politics. Well I have news for you, Real Life™ is not like that, and Arnie Schwartzeneggar is not going to come crashing through a plate glass window with a Big Gun to clean up the world. You all need to grow up.

Incidentally as far as the sex crazed bit goes it is interesting the way the old hypocrisies and double standards persist as witnessed by ASM's post. Do you think he would have written in quite the same way had the genders been reversed? When are we as a society going to grow up enough to not be scared by a woman with horror of horrors, a sex drive.

To end on a marginally more conciliatory note, this debate has thus far only involved men. What do the women here think about this, am I a wussy politically correct idiot, or do you dislike the word too. I think it is a word like nigger, in that only those it may describe, are able to use it without offence.

One last question to csk. Why did you delete your post? It seemed to make a fair point, and was from someone who has seen this from the inside.

--------------------
"Knowledge is Power. France is Bacon" - Milton

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Rhonwyyn

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Icon 1 posted February 15, 2006 16:45      Profile for Rhonwyyn   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
My father committed adultery when I was ten and continued to do so until he completely abandoned my family and moved out when I was 12. "Bitch" sums up all the hurt and bitterness I've ever had toward him. However, I cringe at the implications of that word: it's negatively associated with women, and furthermore, with animals. What epithets does the English language have for men? "Bastard" could be male or female, and it more reflects the parents' choices than that of the illegitimate child. The same with "Son of a Bitch." So you're the son of an annoying, whining, stupid, sexually loose woman. So what?

To me, words like Bitch and the C-word continue the tiresome and frustrating objectification of women. It strips them down to just a bunch of parts without any inherent value. Maybe 40* years ago women didn't have all the opportunities that they do today, but 40* years ago, they still had the respect of society.

*Arbitrary number. Respect seems to be in short supply these days. We don't respect our parents, our partners, our governmental leaders, our employees, our employers, our customers, our service providers, our teachers, etc., whether male or female.

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Change the way you SEE, not the way you LOOK!

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csk

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Icon 1 posted February 15, 2006 16:52      Profile for csk     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Callipygous:
One last question to csk. Why did you delete your post? It seemed to make a fair point, and was from someone who has seen this from the inside.

Because I was in a pissy mood and didn't feel like arguing with dnm?

<possibly irrelevant content>
I think your last post was spot on, people don't like ambiguity, they like victims and villains. In my case, I can see a lot of things I did wrong that contributed to my marriage breaking down, as did a lot of things my ex did. The difference is that she basically blamed me for everything that went wrong, and I saw the fault on both sides. Unfortunately responses like hers are all too common
</possibly irrelevant content>

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6 weeks to go!

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TMBWITW,PB

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Icon 1 posted February 15, 2006 17:20      Profile for TMBWITW,PB     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Callipygous:
To end on a marginally more conciliatory note, this debate has thus far only involved men. What do the women here think about this, am I a wussy politically correct idiot, or do you dislike the word too. I think it is a word like nigger, in that only those it may describe, are able to use it without offence.

My problem with words like bitch and c**t are that they are only applicable to women and are much more hurtful than similar terms applied to men. If you call a man a "dick" he would most likely laugh it off. Call a woman a "c**t" and you may have a lawsuit on your hands. As a matter of fact, I can't think of a very offensive term that is only applicable to men, but maybe I'm not being creative enough.

So much for the general. As far as the specific use this time, I think it could have been worded better, but I interpreted it as a reflection of his anger toward that particular woman and situation rather than general mysogyny, so it wasn't tooo bad.

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"Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and it may be necessary from time to time to give a stupid or misinformed beholder a black eye."
—Miss Piggy

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YaYawoman

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Icon 1 posted February 15, 2006 17:35      Profile for YaYawoman     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Calli was hoping to hear from the female members of GC. here goes.

Oddly enough I agree with calli BUT also with drunkennewfiemidget. Wishy Washy? probably. I prefer to think of it as situation-specific.

This may ramble I apologize in advance.

I guess I will start with calli.
The words ct used that got my hackles slightly up were "the bitches win everything in court" A generic if you are a woman you are a bitch. I really dont like that because I do not do that to men. Male does not automatically equal dog in my mind. In many women's minds it does.

I also agree with calli that the rage, while human, does nothing to further the brothers goals of re-connecting with his daughter. Consider the problem, focus what needs to be done to fix the problem, discard EVERYTHING else that does not contribute to the goal, acheive the goal. Anger feels hot but it does not help,

Now on to why I agree with newf:

He is venting. This is not his marriage or child, it is his brothers and he is sick for him. When anger is overwhelming everything, find a safe place to let it out. Here is as safe as it gets.
He can spew here and not have it affect real life. Also he might get some feedback that could help or at least some support or acknowledgment that SOMEONE is hearing/reading.

Now to the situation specific. In real life, face to face I would not permit anyone in my life in any way,shape or form to call me a bitch just because I am female. I cannot control what people think or say but I can control who enters my life and who I pay attention to. Here on GC I am the one who decides what thread I read, what thread I respond to and what members I allow to affect my life. CT has a problem with a short fuse, therefore I read his posts and move on usually.
I do not let his words bother me because I am an adult women who can decide to move on and change the thread so to speak.

Well, that is my take. Wishy washy I don't know, but it works for me.

EDIT He also wasnt posting a thread asking something like "These bitches keep breakingmy heart. why do C***ts always act this way blahblahblah" because then I would post about his attitude and word choice affecting his worldview etc. (In a hopefully helpful way) This post was venting. He doesn't need me nagging away at him.It would not be a productive use of my time. So therefore, move along there. hahaha

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maia
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Icon 1 posted February 15, 2006 17:40      Profile for maia     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I tend to agree with Rhonnie and Peebs on this one, but I don't hold it against individuals that use these words. Their use is so ingrained in our culture that one must make a real conscious effort not to use them. Growing up in Texas, I have far too often run into males that are quick to label a woman as a bitch for simply standing up for herself and demanding the respect she deserves. But I think the real issue in this debate has less to do with the actual words and more with the continued social inequities between the sexes. Will eliminating words like bitch from our vocabulary really change anything? Probably not. But I do think that the continued dialogue and debate like this is important to challenge some of these outdated or unfair cultural norms.

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Nothing is too petty to be thoroughly discussed.

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dragonman97

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Icon 1 posted February 15, 2006 20:38      Profile for dragonman97   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Callipy, maia, et. al. *That* was my point. I don't give a rat's ass about political correctness... but I do give a damn about fair treatment of people.

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There are three things you can be sure of in life: Death, taxes, and reading about fake illnesses online...

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