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Author Topic: mac startup disk booboo
Chesty
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Icon 1 posted December 15, 2005 15:00      Profile for Chesty         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I really goofed.

Background:
Donating a g3 imac OS9.2.2 to my son's school, I wanted to get rid of all the files (5000 customer cc#s) and when i put in the Norton cd the drive wouldn't read it. It won't read any CDs. So i figure the kids are getting it for free so they might use a USB CD.

I decided it would be ok if I drug the cd from another mac to this hard drive and used it on the desktop. I didn't know if it would be recognized as a startup disk if it was copied but figured that mac would either see it or not.

It saw it. I selected it as my startup disk and restarted.

Uh OH!

"The system software on the startup disk only functions on the original media, not if copied to another drive." <restart>


It won't let me change the startup disk but it won't start from that disk. Blew PRam and still with the same deal.

Kids are expecting this computer tomorrow for a special Christmas drawing. Can anyone help?

Posts: 416 | From: The Beach | Registered: Nov 2003  |  IP: Logged
Serenak

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Icon 1 posted December 15, 2005 17:11      Profile for Serenak     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
OK, bit of a boo boo for sure but I done worse things...

I'm getting a bit rusty on all this "old tech" but still - can you start from a CD at all? in the iMac's drive or in an external? If you can then start from any CD you can lay hands on that'll boot the Mac and try to reset the startup from there. From the iMac drive try holding the C key down when booting...

Can you boot it by holding down the shift key for the "safe" mode? (unlikely in the circumstances but always worth a try..)

Try starting with just the Option/Alt key down... this may (depending on the Mac) bring up the Open Firmware which will allow you to pick a valid OS folder or drive - if it don't work or you get no options this is a no goer...

If the Mac in question has Firewire, and you have another Mac and a suitable FW cable (yeah a lot of ifs in there I know) you may be able to connect it to another Mac and boot holding down the T key to get "Target Disk Mode" which effectively turns it into an external HD - unfortunately even if this works it doesn't always do what it is supposed to... my clamshell iBooks would do target disk mode but refused to accept any input from the "master" Mac...

Some old Macs (probably pre iMac though) could be forced to boot from any valid "not the set startup" by holding down Apple Alt Shift Del (or on some Apple Alt Shift Backspace) IIRC

Unfortunately on a G3 iMac if the CD is truly FUBAR and you have scuppered the startup you could be in deep water..

I have got into this pickle myself - but usually on easily openable Macs where at a push I could just swap out the HDD... not so easy on a Gumdrop iMac...

Wish I could help more... but without being there it is hard to know what else to suggest.

Good Luck

[Frown]

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"So if you want my address - it's No. 1 at the end of the bar, where I sit with the broken angels, clutching at straws and nursing my scars..."

Posts: 1937 | From: Suffolk England | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged
Chesty
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Icon 1 posted December 15, 2005 19:51      Profile for Chesty         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Thanks - tried all of the above - this one doesn't have the "programmers button" that the later models did. it has the drawer cd. I knew i was gonna blow it if it didn't work, i shoulda known better.
Posts: 416 | From: The Beach | Registered: Nov 2003  |  IP: Logged
Serenak

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Icon 1 posted December 16, 2005 03:46      Profile for Serenak     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
about all I can suggest is an attempt to boot from a usb thumb drive either with an OS 9 "rescue" type install or with a suitable Linux ...

Probably not a lot of help - sorry

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"So if you want my address - it's No. 1 at the end of the bar, where I sit with the broken angels, clutching at straws and nursing my scars..."

Posts: 1937 | From: Suffolk England | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged
Maggs
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Icon 1 posted December 16, 2005 06:00      Profile for Maggs     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Serenak:
about all I can suggest is an attempt to boot from a usb thumb drive either with an OS 9 "rescue" type install or with a suitable Linux ...

Probably not a lot of help - sorry

How about Damn Small Linux on a Flash drive .
http://www.damnsmalllinux.org/

Boot the Mac on DSL login as root and type

rm -rf /

It won't warn you either, it does its thing and poof no more Mac OS.

Posts: 193 | From: NYC | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged
Serenak

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Icon 1 posted December 16, 2005 06:59      Profile for Serenak     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
That is all very good Maggs and DSL is indeed exactly the sort of thing I was talking about - but you need a PPC Linux for a Mac...

And very good though DSL is - PPC it is not...

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"So if you want my address - it's No. 1 at the end of the bar, where I sit with the broken angels, clutching at straws and nursing my scars..."

Posts: 1937 | From: Suffolk England | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged
dragonman97

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Icon 1 posted December 16, 2005 07:05      Profile for dragonman97   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Maggs:
quote:
Originally posted by Serenak:
about all I can suggest is an attempt to boot from a usb thumb drive either with an OS 9 "rescue" type install or with a suitable Linux ...

Probably not a lot of help - sorry

How about Damn Small Linux on a Flash drive .
http://www.damnsmalllinux.org/

Boot the Mac on DSL login as root and type

rm -rf /

It won't warn you either, it does its thing and poof no more Mac OS.

That's pretty useless advice, dude. That'll attempt to wipe out the read-only root file system of DSL. [Wink]

What will work just fine, though - given knowledge of the hard drive device: /dev/hda for IDE drive 0 or /dev/sda for SCSI drive 0

[email protected] # dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/hda

and if you want to nuke it some more after that's done:

[email protected] # dd if=/dev/random of=/dev/hda

(or /dev/urandom)

Sorry for t3h lam3 script-kiddiot stuff, but it was oddly irresistable for these purposes (following on the typically silly 'rm -rf /' advice). I won't recommend the `wipe` utility, as I've attempted recovery after it, and *found files*

This is what I use, and give a full vote of confidence in:
http://dban.sourceforge.net/

(I've run very thorough recovery apps after using DBAN, and they find *nothing*)

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There are three things you can be sure of in life: Death, taxes, and reading about fake illnesses online...

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drunkennewfiemidget
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Icon 1 posted December 16, 2005 07:16      Profile for drunkennewfiemidget     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by dragonman97:


[email protected] # dd if=/dev/random of=/dev/hda

(or /dev/urandom)

/dev/urandom over an entire harddrive would take a LOT of time due to a lack of entropy since there's likely no chance you'll be doing much else on the computer for it to fetch entropy from (keypresses, network activity, memory usage, etc.)
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dragonman97

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Icon 1 posted December 16, 2005 07:27      Profile for dragonman97   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Serenak:
That is all very good Maggs and DSL is indeed exactly the sort of thing I was talking about - but you need a PPC Linux for a Mac...

And very good though DSL is - PPC it is not...

http://www.ubuntulinux.org/download/

Get the Ubuntu Linux PPC Live CD. [Smile]

Edit: Hey, what do you know - DBAN has a PPC version:
http://dban.sourceforge.net/ppc.html

--------------------
There are three things you can be sure of in life: Death, taxes, and reading about fake illnesses online...

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Stereo

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Icon 1 posted December 16, 2005 07:42      Profile for Stereo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Well,there might not be a "Programmer button" in the tray-loading iMacs, but there's a "Programmer hole." Un-bend a paper clip, stick it through the appropriate hole ( See here to know where it is), and try again.

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Eppur, si muove!

Galileo Galilei

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Serenak

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Icon 1 posted December 16, 2005 07:55      Profile for Serenak     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
All these distro ideas are fine but it is the fact that the CD drive is FUBAR that got him into this mess in the first place...

If the CD drive was working there would be no problem...

And I am sure Stereo is right... I thought it odd when you said you had no programmer switch... cause as I recall all Macs of that sort of era had them... Though unless you know anything useful to type in the little box that comes up it ain't a whole lotta use.

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"So if you want my address - it's No. 1 at the end of the bar, where I sit with the broken angels, clutching at straws and nursing my scars..."

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TheMoMan
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Icon 1 posted December 16, 2005 09:10      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Chesty__________________This is the very problem I am worried about on my wifes iMac. The CD drive went south about two years ago. The early iMacs will not boot from the USB ports or devices. I plan upon its failure to open it up, get a Y 40 pin cable set a External CD-ROM drive to slave and hope I can get it to boot from there. There does not seem to be an easy fix. We had two tray iMacs and both had CD drive failures, I was going to try that experment on mine but my stepson got to it first, I do not know if the process would work but since it is fubar it might be worth a shot, I also remember reading that some Macs will not boot from non apple CD drives, again I do not know if that is the case with the early iMacs.

--------------------
Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.


Benjamin Franklin,

Posts: 5848 | From: Just South of the Huron National Forest, in the water shed of the Rifle River | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
Stereo

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Icon 1 posted December 16, 2005 09:54      Profile for Stereo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by TheMoMan:
I also remember reading that some Macs will not boot from non apple CD drives, again I do not know if that is the case with the early iMacs.

The iMac should do fine, as I clearly remember CD-booting with the TechTool Pro CD on my old Performa 5200CD. (Ah! the days when the hard drives were so small they filled up quickly, and unfragmenting the disk every so often was compulsory...) The only thing to do in order to boot from a cd is to hold the "c" key down... Other than that, it always has worked for me, for as long as I had a Mac with a CD drive.

--------------------
Eppur, si muove!

Galileo Galilei

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SkyLady
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Icon 1 posted December 18, 2005 12:21      Profile for SkyLady     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Or hold down the option key after the start up chime which allows you to select which start up disk you want to use.
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Chesty
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Icon 1 posted December 18, 2005 21:35      Profile for Chesty         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Option key ain't gonna get it on this machine.
Also i did find the programmer hole - hiding behind the ethernet cable. but nope.

I have be done tried about ebberry ting but dis eyemac won't flyyyyy.

ok i'll try jump drive.

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Chesty
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Icon 1 posted December 18, 2005 21:49      Profile for Chesty         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
ok duh - i can't select a startup volume at all so that was a waste.

I think I'll go all the way and put this HD in another Imac (cd works) and then back again, who knows.

them freakin things are pretty dang hard to get into little pieces - my son is home for Christmas break this week, I'll give him a screwdriver.

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Serenak

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Icon 1 posted December 19, 2005 02:48      Profile for Serenak     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
There are instructions out there on how to do it Chesty

And remember to make sure it has been turned off for at least 24 Hrs before opening it as CRTs can hold dangerous charges for many hours.

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"So if you want my address - it's No. 1 at the end of the bar, where I sit with the broken angels, clutching at straws and nursing my scars..."

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TheMoMan
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Icon 1 posted December 19, 2005 03:55      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Chesty_________________The early iMac was not too bad. one screw for the plastic piece and two for the logicboard and drive sled. While I had memory problems with mine I even ran it on it's side with the sled laying on the desk. If you could get your hands on 44 to 40 pin (ata to atapi) adaptor you could use any CD Rom drive that you could get your hands on. Or while you have it open get a two drive cable and set the jumpers as I suggested and try an external drive.

--------------------
Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.


Benjamin Franklin,

Posts: 5848 | From: Just South of the Huron National Forest, in the water shed of the Rifle River | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged


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