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Author Topic: would YOU use microsoft software
The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted April 25, 2005 15:13      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by dragonman97:
That would be Hotmail. [Big Grin]

Man, the employees there were pissed off about that mess, IIRC. I believe their internal stuff is/was still running Solaris for a long time after that, though.

Links:
http://seclists.org/lists/isn/2001/Dec/0070.html
http://www.securityoffice.net/mssecrets/hotmail.html

Thanks dman, I couldn't remember the details (memory like a seive).

Some edited highlights from the leaked Microsoft document (your second link)...

quote:

Problems of Windows

2) Complexity. A Windows server out of the box is an elaborate system. Although it performs specific tasks well (such as being a web server) there are many services that have a complex set of dependencies, and it is never clear which ones are necessary and which can be removed to improve the systemís efficiency.

3) Obscurity. Some parameters that control the systemís operation are hidden and difficult to fully assess....

4) Resource utilization. Itís true that Windows requires a more powerful computer than Linux or FreeBSD....

5) Image size. The team was unable to reduce the size of the image below 900MB; Windows contains many complex relationships between pieces, and the team was not able to determine with safety how much could be left out of the image. Although disk space on each server was not an issue, the time taken to image thousands of servers across the internal network was significant. By comparison, the equivalent FreeBSD image size is a few tens of MB.

6) Reboot as an expectation. Windows operations still involves too many reboots....

and a candidate for my all-time favourite bit of corporate doublespeak ...

quote:

There is potential, not yet realized, for stability of individual systems to be equal to that of UNIX.



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If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

Posts: 10680 | From: Melbourne, Australia | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
Serenak

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Icon 1 posted April 26, 2005 01:34      Profile for Serenak     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
There is potential, not yet realized, for stability of individual systems to be equal to that of UNIX.
Ha, ha ha ha ha ha ha, BONK, (Laughed my head off.....)

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"So if you want my address - it's No. 1 at the end of the bar, where I sit with the broken angels, clutching at straws and nursing my scars..."

Posts: 1937 | From: Suffolk England | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged
drunkennewfiemidget
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Icon 1 posted April 26, 2005 09:59      Profile for drunkennewfiemidget     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Doesn't anyone remember the fun time a few years back when MS joined forces with someone else (I don't remember who) and launched a "why windows is better than linux campaign" and it turned out all of the webservers serving the campaign's webpages were redhat? And when this got leaked, they took them down and replaced them with IIS. And when this happened, they realised they needed like twice the computation power to provide the same service using IIS?

One of those ad campaigns that quietly slinked into the night, I think.

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CommanderShroom
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Icon 1 posted April 26, 2005 11:27      Profile for CommanderShroom     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I still see M$ ads with the "better" TCO by using Wintel instead of Lintel. They have a few valid points, only a few. Not enough to make me say that M$ is better though.

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Does he know our big secret?
Has one of us confessed?
'Bout the wires circuits and motors
Buried in our chest

Posts: 2465 | From: Utarrrrggggghhh!!!!!!!! | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
dragonman97

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Icon 1 posted April 26, 2005 12:55      Profile for dragonman97   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Shroom - you referred to Lintel - how about the TCO on "Lineron?"* I bet that really gives the best bang for the buck. The one case where TCO is clearly in favor of Windows is in a pre-established environment, where the skill set is all Windows, and the apps are non-portable. In these cases, it's one thing to migrate the functionality, if possible, but you might just about have to swap out the staff . The cream of the crop there will be able to pick up *nix over time, but the deadwood hired to keep the systems patched and whatnot will be utterly useless, and do nothing but bitch, moan, and let the security go to hell in a handbasket.

*/me hereby coins the phrase, if it's not be used before.

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CommanderShroom
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Icon 1 posted April 26, 2005 13:17      Profile for CommanderShroom     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Exactly Dman,

There main point has been that upgrading to 2003 is cheaper than moving over to Linux. I have to agree, if the entire shop has been completely M$ dependant it is cheaper. But That is about where the arguement ends for me.

Like I said I do prefer to use my Linux box here at work and at home. I rarely have a need for my XP system unless it is a specific program that there is no Linux alternative.

I like that "Lineron" flows off the tongue. I think you can make a million off that one. [Big Grin]

--------------------
Does he know our big secret?
Has one of us confessed?
'Bout the wires circuits and motors
Buried in our chest

Posts: 2465 | From: Utarrrrggggghhh!!!!!!!! | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
dunjamon
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Icon 1 posted April 27, 2005 08:05      Profile for dunjamon   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I use Office on my Mac and Visual Studio when I need to do some VB work. Apart from those 2 I never use Microsoft gear at home or uni.

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Computers may be twice as fast as they were in 1973 but your average voter is as drunk and stupid as ever.

Posts: 77 | From: Manchester England | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
Zim'et
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Icon 1 posted May 03, 2005 11:20      Profile for Zim'et         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I already use Microsoft because as a writer all I need is a keyboard and a white window. [Wink]

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3 2 1... Let's Jam

Posts: 254 | From: Montana | Registered: Nov 2003  |  IP: Logged
supaboy
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Icon 1 posted May 03, 2005 12:45      Profile for supaboy     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by dragonman97:
Shroom - you referred to Lintel - how about the TCO on "Lineron?"* (snip)
*/me hereby coins the phrase, if it's not be used before.

I like LMD to describe Linux-on-AMD, because of what it implies about Windows. [Wink]
Posts: 1767 | From: Columbia, SC USA | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged
Cap'n Vic

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Icon 1 posted May 03, 2005 14:15      Profile for Cap'n Vic     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Zim'et:
I already use Microsoft because as a writer all I need is a keyboard and a white window. [Wink]

You mean one of these?

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Posts: 5471 | From: One of the drones from sector 7G | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged


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