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Author Topic: Am i going to hate windows vista
baker_nat
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Icon 2 posted January 03, 2007 04:15      Profile for baker_nat     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
We're only a few days off the long anticipated (or dreaded) windows launch.

As with every launch MS has done that old trick of writing pages that amount to - nothing.

W98 was in fact supposed to be faster than its predocessors, but thats impossible. Add more code and it'll run slower, but it was right there in the installation.

As far as i can discern, MS has added a search box to the start menu, and made the GUI more bloaty. 3d interface - and i need this because?!

So when i pull off the shrink wrapping to MS's latest disaster, am i going to do what i threatened to do some time ago and move to linux. 6 years in the making and theres a search box *faints*, thats not really 6 years work?!

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Posts: 171 | From: england | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged
uilleann
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Icon 1 posted January 03, 2007 04:29            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
W98 was in fact supposed to be faster than its predocessors, but thats impossible. Add more code and it'll run slower ...

At the low level, compilers let you optimise for only speed or size, and never both. Faster code has a little bit of a tendency to be longer, and small code costs you in terms of speed.

But in terms of adding more features, no, that doesn't mean that a program should be slower: you can add features using many mechanisms that have little or no effect on speed, including as separate processes that you run when you need them.

And it's also quite a known practice to optimise programs, and many programs get faster over time as the code is improved. Mac OS X in particular is noted for getting faster with every release, not slower like it did in earlier versions, and it seems that Windows XP boots a lot faster than 2000.

Now, more often than not, the situation is not that you made a fast system faster, but a slow system faster. Windows 2000 takes an age to start up, which was finally resolved in XP. (By comparison, Windows 95 took an absurdly long time to boot compared to Windows 3.11.) Mac OS X to begin with was also very slow, and it's getting faster with each release despite gaining more features and thus becoming larger.

Whereas Firefox seems to be getting slower and slower, and GTK+ for Windows, already pretty awful, is itself getting slower and slower and offering nothing for it in compensation. (As I type, Firefox keeps freezing ... Since 1.5 it's been especially lame on performance)

There is nothing generic that would say either way if Vista will perform or not; it will be solely down to whether Microsoft did a good job or not.

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baker_nat
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Icon 1 posted January 03, 2007 05:08      Profile for baker_nat     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
hmm...

Have you ever heard of bloatware Wiki

This pretty clearly explains my point. W98 was a modification on the W95 System, not a complete re-write. There are also more processes hanging arround than in W95.

WME was the worst case of this, with MS claiming that they had gotten rid of the DOS subsystem. However, with a few simple hacks it was possible to re-boot to DOS.

The boot times are a combination effect of doing away with DOS mode (in XP) and thus autoexec.bat which pre-loaded things before the system started. And newer, faster hardware.

Run w98 on a w95 - designed system, and the system will slow down; run WME on a 98 system and you get the same result.

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Posts: 171 | From: england | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged
uilleann
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Icon 1 posted January 03, 2007 06:20            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
The design and construction of Windows 98 is not the issue. It's possible to make any program be slim or oversized, efficient or inefficient. Just because you consider Windows 98 to be bloated does not mean that it had to be. The point I am making is that size and speed are not inextricably linked the way you claim they are.

I grant you, Microsoft aren't known for showing off their skills at tight, efficient, well-designed software but outside of the embedded systems industry where you simply have no choice, people have mostly stopped caring about producting superlative quality software, or have wound up in a screwed up industry where they cannot deliver it even if they do care. In the case of GTK+ for example, anyone unable to clean up the mess that is its Windows version will be doomed to product slow, buggy cross-compiles to Windows despite any desire to do better.

The mistake you're making, and perhaps others do, is to mix up your perceptions of the industry with the realities of software development. We can do a lot more, and do a lot better, than a lot of software presently demonstrates.

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baker_nat
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Icon 1 posted January 03, 2007 06:31      Profile for baker_nat     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
that is a fair comment. And you're quite right, more code does not necessarily make for a slower system. (prehaps a bad choice of words).

For the sake of accuracy, i will say that w98 claimed that it was going to faster, but due to bloaty code it wasnt.

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Posts: 171 | From: england | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged
The-Tech
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Icon 1 posted January 03, 2007 07:44      Profile for The-Tech     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Someone on the NYLUG mailing list was complaining that when his vista machine was not able to contact Microsoft via the net the macine reverted to "Reduced Function Mode".

It was confirmed by other people on the list that if the machine can not contact a server at Microsoft within 24 Hours it shuts down ceartin funtionality ... like solataire and control panel [Eek!]

His copy was properly licensed and everything worked once net access was restored ... I'd wait a few months before upgrading if I were you or risk a DDOS taking the machine down until M$ gets their act together

Just in case here's a link for the major Linux Distro's I hear good things about Ubuntu. I personally run Debian ... YMMV but you do have choices.

Dave

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Posts: 128 | From: Third Stone from the Sun | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
dragonman97

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Icon 1 posted January 03, 2007 08:34      Profile for dragonman97   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Win98SE was better than Win95 in terms of functionality, and was actually fairly stable as far as the Win9x line goes. And then there's the 'release which shall not be named,' which came after 98SE...and which Dell refused to ship on any corp. computer. [Smile] I didn't know about this Vista licensing 'feature' w.r.t. 24 hrs - I presume that's for a machine that hasn't been activated. I know that Vista Corporate will require license servers, but 24 hours is simply unrealistic - what about people that travel or have dialup?

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zesovietrussian
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Icon 1 posted January 03, 2007 09:09      Profile for zesovietrussian     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Vista Corporate will need to be re-activated though a KMS server every 180 days, not every 24 hours.
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drunkennewfiemidget
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Icon 1 posted January 03, 2007 09:21      Profile for drunkennewfiemidget     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by zesovietrussian:
Vista Corporate will need to be re-activated though a KMS server every 180 days, not every 24 hours.

Which has already been cracked and can be faked quite easily.

MS needs to stop punishing people who pay for its software legitimately.

http://www.ubuntu.com/

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TheMoMan
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Icon 1 posted January 03, 2007 09:33      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
______________________________MS word has some very high hardware requirments, especially when you consider that it is just a replacement for a typewritter, Yes Word, Nissus, and Open Office do a lot more than type but does every one need all of those features? I used to like write right because it kept track of verbs to nouns so that I did not appear to be a blivering idiot, but most of you have figured out that I am one, so why do I need a high end Word Processor?

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GrumpySteen

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Icon 1 posted January 03, 2007 10:34      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
TheMoMan wrote:
why do I need a high end Word Processor?

How else are you going to spread VB macro based virii? [Big Grin]

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spungo
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Icon 1 posted January 03, 2007 12:19      Profile for spungo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I hope to God Vista f^%ks up M$ forever. If enough businesses balk at the absurd system requirements... Sadly, it will succeed... but we can dream, can't we.

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Posts: 6529 | From: Noba Scoba | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
Sxeptomaniac

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Icon 1 posted January 03, 2007 13:49      Profile for Sxeptomaniac   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I really haven't been paying much attention to Vista at all. The monitor to my Windows XP system burned out on me a couple weeks back, and I haven't really been hurrying to replace it. My laptop running Ubuntu has been working just fine for everything I need.

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Posts: 1590 | From: Fresno, CA | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged
uilleann
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Icon 1 posted January 03, 2007 14:30            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Nat/spungo: The bad news for Vista just keeps rolling in

Maybe Vista really will go mammaries vertical through Microsoft's own stupidity.

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Ugurcan

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Icon 1 posted January 06, 2007 15:38      Profile for Ugurcan   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Vista is acceptable in terms of usability, If you try hard you may get used to it. But as far as I can tell, the new office suite is a disaster. The whole menuing system is a mess.

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baker_nat
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Icon 1 posted January 06, 2007 16:00      Profile for baker_nat     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I still run office XP, and im more than happy with it, I have no reason to go for '03, or the new version. Actualy i was quite happy with office 98, but there we go.

I for one will probably hold out with XP for as long as i can, then i will debate whether i want compatibility or reliability. Its a question that has plagued me for years, but vistas new range of irritation may sway me

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Posts: 171 | From: england | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged
uilleann
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Icon 1 posted January 06, 2007 17:30            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Office 98? What made you switch to Windows then?

Besides, every version of Office has been a disaster ;)

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AntonTakk
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Icon 1 posted January 06, 2007 21:35      Profile for AntonTakk   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
for me it was never a question of /will/ i hate it, more along the lines of "how much will i hate it" given the fact that being a network admin for a mostly windows company, and a networking student in college, i know i'll have to use it at some point anyways. Not to mention that aparently MS has decided to make Halo 2 for the PC only for vista, this makes me glad that i'll be able to afford the hardware to run it as a virtualized guest OS under Xen for most things. Judging from what i have seen and heard of vista, i plan to stick with xp pro as my MS os of choice (read: not the os of choice, just the ms os of choice) for a long time to come.

Edited for: random spelling and punctuation changes.

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somenewdude
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Icon 1 posted June 04, 2008 12:31      Profile for somenewdude         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I've had MS Vista since I was trapped into buying it because my XP program wasn't original and then it screwed up my computer. It's alright but then I haven't found an alternate solution to it.

I'm not a computer whiz so if anyone could suggest anything then I'm all ears.

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Michael Findlay
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Icon 1 posted June 07, 2008 03:57      Profile for Michael Findlay   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Im happy with my Windows XP, they just extended the shelf life again (For the third time to be exact) They are working on a new Windows, after the disaster that is Vista dived and landed like a jet plane without fuel.

Took them long enough to realise that it wasnt going to be popular enough to hold its ground, and that it needs to be replaced. Cant wait for Vista Mutated 2.

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dragonman97

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Icon 1 posted June 07, 2008 16:22      Profile for dragonman97   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I hate to perpetuate the necroposting, but the thread topic just caught my eyes.

Short answer: YES...it's UTTERLY HORRIBLE.

I want 2 hours of my life back from the other day. I could swear that previous experiences with Vista were never so awful. The UI is pure shite, and I haven't a clue how anyone could ever conceivably call it good.

I've used every version of Windows since 3.0, and I was having a lot of trouble navigating the hard drive and getting to my USB key. That's truly pathetic. (Which reminds me, I need to send a screenshot to a friend. [Along those lines, I was having a very bad time actually saving it...])

Per one of the recent posts, I saw the following on Lifehacker, and this is definitely bad news for Microsoft, and good news for everyone else:
http://lifehacker.com/394789/xp-stays-alive-till-2010

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