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Author Topic: Linux
fool6000000001
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Icon 1 posted August 18, 2004 09:08      Profile for fool6000000001     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
This is NOT a Microsoft flame, flame-bait, or an excuse for anyone to exchange any farcical comments which may promote this behaviour.

My simple question is...

Is Linux really better than Windows in terms of usability and compatibility?

In my experience, Linux is slightly less responsive when it comes to loading programs BUT it compensates for this with fewer program crashes and entire environment freezes, due to the sensible resource management system. Linux also gets a bit of stick because of the lack of drivers available for new hardware technology, such as Multi-Function Devices (MFDs), especially those produced by uncooperative companies such as Canon, who most likely also insist that there software only works on "95 or greater", in other words "XP or less". This is the nature of free software, as is the poor availibility of software that reaches the kind of standard set by Mozilla Firefox.
However, when one considers that freely distributed software is often of higher quality than proprietary software due to the large community-based development ethic, it seems that the useability deficiency is made up for in value. Yet money is not always the issue, since if your expensive hardware is unsupported, such as the newer ATI Radeon cards (to some extent), then one would find Windows a more viable useable option. There seems to be a long way to go before Linux is taken seriously by software and hardware companies and support for Linux comes as standard, since even a Linux user would pay a lot of money for hardware and software, as long is it would work with their Operating System.
Of course, the usability of an OS for you will depend on what you use it for. Linux is still somewhat an underdog in the realm of entertainment and computer games, but for image manipulation, programming, web-browsing, e-mail, multimedia and so much more Linux is far better than Windows. Often usability is decreased by the sheer difficulty some users feel getting their system up and running. If you do not understand how ppp works on Linux, for example, you may find it difficult to get your dial-up connection working, which of course means you cannot get online help with the problem. It is also a growing problem that software is so poorly documented that users cannot quickly begin using it.

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Food is my life. Sleep is my escape.

Posts: 21 | From: The sub-etha | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
Ivan
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Icon 1 posted August 18, 2004 14:31      Profile for Ivan   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
*must resist urge to feed the spammer/troll*
Posts: 269 | From: North Carolina | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
quantumfluff
BlabberMouth, a Blabber Odyssey
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Icon 1 posted August 18, 2004 21:45      Profile for quantumfluff     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Is Linux really better than Windows in terms of usability and compatibility?
That depends on what you're using it for. To run web services, yes. To run PC games, no. There are a lot of other answers, depending on how you measure usability.

Posts: 2901 | From: 5 to 15 meters above sea level | Registered: Jun 2000  |  IP: Logged
GameMaster
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Icon 1 posted August 19, 2004 07:09      Profile for GameMaster   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I'd call this informative but it it's not. Linux and other Unix-like operating systems run most of the webservers. There are a number of linux tools for the desktop that are more useable than the windows version and Linux has taken great strides in making Linux more userfriendly so that it's interface isn't whole unfamiliar for Windows users. Linux has a ways to go before before it can attempt to compete with windows... But it's not trying to compete, it's trying to offer alternatives to users. Choice, freedom and functionality are the things you need to wiegh when looking at the question of Linux vrs windows. Is it important to you to have open source software? Is it important to run the new XYZ game? Do you want to run a server that is fairly secure? Can you change the way the system does XYZ to a way that you feel more comfortable working (key bindings/editors/etc)?

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spungo
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Icon 1 posted August 19, 2004 07:22      Profile for spungo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Use whatever tool's right for the job. GNU/Linux is great for development (most of the compilers you could want are already there, and the combination of vi / gcc means you can often get the job done rather quickly once you've mastered them). Also, I hate complicated IDEs - I abhor having to waste my precious time learning an environment, when with the environmental standardization of *nix means this is not usually a problem.

Saying that, I wouldn't try to do anything like video editing on Linux (not just yet) as the existing tools are a bit rubbish. (Not the programmers' fault, you understand - more a problem of undisclosed codecs, etc. )

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Shameless plug. (Please forgive me.)

Posts: 6529 | From: Noba Scoba | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
drunkennewfiemidget
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Icon 1 posted August 19, 2004 08:19      Profile for drunkennewfiemidget     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
<lame-linux-enthusiast>
linux r00ls all you n00b!
</lame-linux-enthusiast>

No, seriously, I don't use Windows for anything. I don't play the newest games, the ones that I do play have linux versions. I don't do video editing, I just write software, browse the web, piss people off on IRC, and other various mundane tasks.

So for me, Linux /is/ better than windows. A message saying, "you just plugged your usb camera in, please reboot" just isn't my style.

Windows has its place -- it's just not on my desktop.

Posts: 4897 | From: Cambridge, ON, Canada | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
ooby
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Icon 1 posted August 19, 2004 13:23      Profile for ooby     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Who says you need windows for video editing? Isn't there a video editing gimp out there?

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"haven't you ever wondered if there's more to life than being really, really, rediculously good looking?"

Posts: 680 | From: South Jersey | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
spungo
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Icon 1 posted August 19, 2004 13:46      Profile for spungo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by ooby:
Who says you need windows for video editing? Isn't there a video editing gimp out there?

Have fun trying to read an arbitrary .avi file in Linux.

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Shameless plug. (Please forgive me.)

Posts: 6529 | From: Noba Scoba | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
dunjamon
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Icon 1 posted August 20, 2004 07:26      Profile for dunjamon   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
When I still had an IBM computer I used Suse Linux for pretty much everything including browsing, word processing and development for uni projects. I now use my iBook for everything apart from games as my brother has a nice fast PC. I reckon that Linux is superior to windows for business and development and reckon that in the next few years it will be more game/media friendly.

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Computers may be twice as fast as they were in 1973 but your average voter is as drunk and stupid as ever.

Posts: 77 | From: Manchester England | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
nixoholic
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Icon 14 posted September 30, 2004 18:05      Profile for nixoholic     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I didn't fully read the post but here's my answer...

Linux woops windows ass in any and all major benchmarks. If you can really compare the two. I mean Linux is a the beautiful spawn of hackers like me who live like hermits and share with eachother like a bunch of preschoolers. Linux is secure. Windows is as secure as American Schools. Linux is reliable. Windows needs rebooted. If you're asking about playing games on Linux, I'm sorry it's the game makers fault... they could make games for the best Kernel in the world but they elect to give Bill Gates a kiss in the butt instead. Anyone who would ask this question obviously is running a windows machine. The only reason why you're seeing this page is because of Linux. Not that there's a Linux server behind the whole thing, but hey is PHP open source? That be a yes. And I gurantee you somewhere there's a Linux server working that is allowing this site to be up and running. Linux is beautiful when using it you feel powerful. Because you know you can do things for free that cost corps. thousands of dollars in compilers, and operating systems. If Linux/Unix commands are hard for you to use becuase they're so flaming secure then you shouldn't even have a computer. I thought this was a geek forum... my god you DOS loving lamer. [Big Grin]

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------NIXOHOLIC0-------

Posts: 5 | From: ohio | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged
nixoholic
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Icon 13 posted September 30, 2004 18:10      Profile for nixoholic     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
To the .avi comment, it's a Microsoft codec so shutup. And..... It can be used. I use Linux for videoediting and it works just flaming fine for me. It's got great editors like (Cinerella) which is used by big corps. on windows machines. Your lucky we even do this for you losers. If I had my choice the closed source community would never see any code from the open source community. What's that... no 64 bit windows, demo, long-horns been delayed again... BLUE SCREEN OF DEATH ...uptime on my Linux box is 90 days SO HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
you suck!

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------NIXOHOLIC0-------

Posts: 5 | From: ohio | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged
csk

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Icon 1 posted September 30, 2004 18:32      Profile for csk     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
OK, nixoholic, a few points.

Firstly, the edit button will avoid you having to make two posts in a row like that. Learn it, live it, love it.

Secondly, if you were aiming for a tone of "arrogant know it all", congratulations, you hit the jackpot! If not, please adjust accordingly.

Thirdly, as big fan of Linux, seeing posts like yours make me feel embarassed for the sake of the open source community, in much the same way that I feel embarassed as a Christian when I see the public actions/attitudes of some of my fellow "believers". They were mostly factually accurate (apart from your analysis of why game makers don't port games to Linux), but I can't see any Windows user reading them and saying "Wow, after reading that, I want to give Linux a go!"

So, how about taking a deep breath, and toning it down a bit? I can see you've got good things to say, but the message is getting drowned out at the moment, IMHO.

Posts: 4455 | From: Sydney, Australia | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
Cap'n Vic

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Icon 1 posted September 30, 2004 18:43      Profile for Cap'n Vic     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by nixoholic:
To the .avi comment, it's a Microsoft codec so shutup. And..... It can be used. I use Linux for videoediting and it works just flaming fine for me. It's got great editors like (Cinerella) which is used by big corps. on windows machines. Your lucky we even do this for you losers. If I had my choice the closed source community would never see any code from the open source community. What's that... no 64 bit windows, demo, long-horns been delayed again... BLUE SCREEN OF DEATH ...uptime on my Linux box is 90 days SO HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
you suck!

Does your mother know you have strayed from your regular Yahoo! chat site? Because dude, you just ain't being cool.

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(!) (T) = 8-D

Posts: 5471 | From: One of the drones from sector 7G | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
Mac D
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Icon 1 posted September 30, 2004 19:10      Profile for Mac D     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
He didn't bring up my favorite OSX Panther (Anticipating Tiger) I'm using SuSe, OSX Panther and XP. My laser printer has drivers for all 3. Even my wife can do video editing on the Mac. Most of the time the XP box just sits there and collects dust except for the occasional game and that is the only reson it is not in the closet. I also have a Powerbook 3400c my oldest kid uses to play some games. It's running OS9 and I'll use that over the XP box. I just stoped trying after all the gosh darnit to heck pop-ups took over the thing. There is a reson to go with Linux over XP. I turn it on and upon loading I have 3 pop-ups before I even do anything. I don't even have to be on the net. I get rid of them with ad aware and they keep comming back so I just gave up. No problems with pop ups on my SuSe or OSX computers. Not to mention about 99% of computer viruses are made for Winblows. The only reson possibly for using windows is for the RTS games. Any other game I can get for my Game Cube or PS2. (Sorry I rufuse to get an X-box MS has pissed me off way to much and don't want to give them more money. Yes I know Gates owns some Apple stock and is a silent partner but it's different) But to answer the question. Linux 100% just get one of the bigger name distrabutions (SuSe, Red Hat, Mandrake ........) So there you have it Mac D's 2 cents on it.

In the battle between Windows and Linux I would go with OSX

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There's nothing wrong with me, This is how I'm supposed to be.

Posts: 1449 | From: Where I am is very relative to my location at that time. | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged
nixoholic
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Icon 12 posted September 30, 2004 20:07      Profile for nixoholic     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Ok maybe I was a little extreme but I'll be nice about it and answer your questions.

1. I didn't use the edit button becuase i'm a lazy person and i just hit reply. Sorry. Uber apology oh great forum nerd [Razz] . j/k don't get your pocket protector in a wad.

2. You may think you're embaressed by me, but as you admited the ideas our right. What embaress's me is the word "open source" open source means that you still believe that free and commercial software can be used together. You probably use KDE or FreeBSD. Now I'm not dissing on these products. They are nice... but they are wrong. Wrong wrong wrong. It's all a matter of opinion. Using these products just opens the door and says "come on through and monopolize me even after the evil empire disapates." I am a completely free GNU user. GNU has everything you need, I contribute and live by that code. Everything should be free.

3. Thank you OSX panther guy, you know the path. I do use Slackware, so I am so 1995. We differ on that. But that's ok.

4. Now I may be just a little bit libertarian on my views, but hey opinions are like assholes everybodys got one.

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------NIXOHOLIC0-------

Posts: 5 | From: ohio | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged
Cap'n Vic

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Icon 1 posted September 30, 2004 21:12      Profile for Cap'n Vic     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Here is a thought eunuch-olic: Go find yourself a good 'open source' dictionary.

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(!) (T) = 8-D

Posts: 5471 | From: One of the drones from sector 7G | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
dragonman97

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Icon 1 posted September 30, 2004 22:32      Profile for dragonman97   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
90 days? Why don't you turn off your computer? Doesn't that hurt it? Some guy I know said something about MTBF or something*. *shrugs* I'm just not sure why you'd want this - oh well, to each his or her own. However, I must concede that punctuation, and other forms of grammar make a post more comprehensible to me. Perhaps if you work on that a bit, I might understand what you're talking about. After seeing the first sentence or so I just glossed right over it.


*csk, TFD, Vic, et.al: Kindly leave this alone [Smile] .

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There are three things you can be sure of in life: Death, taxes, and reading about fake illnesses online...

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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted September 30, 2004 23:44      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
90 days uptime?

That's impossible !

After 49.7 days, the millisecond counter hits 32 bit integer overflow, and the system crashes. Everyone knows that.

At least in theory, no real system ever gets to run that long anyway.

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If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

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GameMaster
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Icon 1 posted October 01, 2004 06:43      Profile for GameMaster   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
90 days is nothing... Get off your high horse. Messner has nodes that have been up and running sims for 180+ days. But we leave them up that long for practicle reasons, not bragging rights... What a stupid thing to brag about.

1. I didn't use the edit button becuase i'm a lazy person and i just hit reply. Sorry. Uber apology oh great forum nerd [Razz] . j/k don't get your pocket protector in a wad.
He gets his packet protector in a wad alot, but double posting is generally frowned upon, unless you are quoting different posts in each (and even then Vic might throw a hissy).

2. You may think you're embaressed by me, but as you admited the ideas our right. What embaress's me is the word "open source" open source means that you still believe that free and commercial software can be used together. You probably use KDE or FreeBSD. Now I'm not dissing on these products. They are nice... but they are wrong. Wrong wrong wrong. It's all a matter of opinion. Using these products just opens the door and says "come on through and monopolize me even after the evil empire disapates." I am a completely free GNU user. GNU has everything you need, I contribute and live by that code. Everything should be free.
That's good news, the company you work for (or will work for) has just read this and is dontating all profits you make to charity. Open Source is open because they want to give people the option or choice of modifing the code... The OSS movment is all about freedom and choice, and there is nothing wrong with allowing people to buy hermetically sealed software for outragous prices if the choose too. Remember the software is free as in speech, not (neededly) free as in beer.

... 4. Now I may be just a little bit libertarian on my views, but hey opinions are like assholes everybodys got one.
No, libertarians have no problem with ownership or people selling their creations and having some protection from intellectual property theft. Your veiws are almost Marxian, and I think the party you agree most with is probably the communist or socialist party (not that there is anything wrong with that).

Posts: 3038 | From: State of insanity | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
spungo
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Icon 1 posted October 01, 2004 06:59      Profile for spungo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Well, if we're getting into an uptime pissing contest, I think you'll find Solaris right in there (not that I really care either way). My sparc 20 at work (Solaris 7) was up for 3 years solid. I only turned it off when I moved offices.

Uptime itself doesn't mean shit, unless you're running a non-resilient system (which would be stupid for anything in any way critical). If you have a multiplicity of boxes performing a task, it shouldn't really matter if you have to reboot a machine every week or so - you should be prepared for that contingency anyway, regardless of OS.

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Shameless plug. (Please forgive me.)

Posts: 6529 | From: Noba Scoba | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
quantumfluff
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Icon 1 posted October 01, 2004 07:20      Profile for quantumfluff     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I once had 90 hour uptime, but it was after a Viagra accident.
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drunkennewfiemidget
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Icon 1 posted October 01, 2004 07:39      Profile for drunkennewfiemidget     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by spungo:
Well, if we're getting into an uptime pissing contest, I think you'll find Solaris right in there (not that I really care either way). My sparc 20 at work (Solaris 7) was up for 3 years solid. I only turned it off when I moved offices.

Uptime itself doesn't mean shit, unless you're running a non-resilient system (which would be stupid for anything in any way critical). If you have a multiplicity of boxes performing a task, it shouldn't really matter if you have to reboot a machine every week or so - you should be prepared for that contingency anyway, regardless of OS.

I once kept my uptime during an office move just to see if I could. The box was plugged into a ups. I unplugged the UPS, put it on top of the box, and drove it down the road in the passenger seat of my car while the UPS squealed.

Made it, too!

Posts: 4897 | From: Cambridge, ON, Canada | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
csk

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Icon 1 posted October 01, 2004 08:02      Profile for csk     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by GameMaster:
He gets his packet protector in a wad alot

I do? I thought I balanced that out with funny and serious posts reasonably well? [Confused]

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6 weeks to go!

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Xanthine

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Icon 1 posted October 01, 2004 08:48      Profile for Xanthine     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
You, this comparing of uptime has a striking resemblance to the comparing of penis sizes.

/me starts reeling from the reek of testosterone
/me flees

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And it's one, two, three / On the wrong side of the lee / What were you meant for? / What were you meant for?
- The Decemberists

Posts: 7670 | From: the lab | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged
GameMaster
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Icon 1 posted October 01, 2004 13:24      Profile for GameMaster   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by csk:
quote:
Originally posted by GameMaster:
He gets his packet protector in a wad alot

I do? I thought I balanced that out with funny and serious posts reasonably well? [Confused]
Opps, I thought he was talking about Vic... Sorry.

X, uptime used to be thought of that way. I never understood that, especially if most of the time was CPU idle. With the cluster, the reason they are all always up is that it wouldn't make sense to power them up and down a whole bunch... Recently we've taken to rebooting six (or so -- one shelf worth) of computers on the first of every month -- we memtest, run harddisk utilities and fsck ... but that is just because we're parinoid about the data from the simulations, and if we didn't restart them they'd all still be fine. If uptime is penis size then processor speed (another nearly meaningless obession) would be what? I think you could argue that it's the geeks hotrods -- "Oh, that new [G5/Intel chip/AMD monster] he just bought... Must be a midlife crisis!"

Posts: 3038 | From: State of insanity | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged


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