The TTBs still live over on After Y2K, ... only if the Sys Admin gets her way, perhaps not for long. stay tuned!

quote:

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Originally posted by CyberGoddess:

What is it with some of you men? Can't you enjoy a comic that is simple and meant to be humorous? "Chicks" are not here for your amusement.

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Presence of both sexes is very important! One of the reasons I left my previous job was because there were no girls! (except of that evil secretary). It's very boring when there's only one gender.

Beenay.

quote:

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Originally posted by Beenay:
Presence of both sexes is very important! One of the reasons I left my previous job was because there were no girls! (except of that evil secretary). It's very boring when there's only one gender.

---

I agree with needing women to balance it all out. However, I don't agree in "fluff" which is what he seemed to be implying he wanted... eye candy.

------------------

CyberGoddess
http://www.cybergoddess.net
Member of the NBS

DRAW CHICKS AND HUNKS, OR DIE!

(you gotta please both sexes.)

quote:

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Originally posted by Petethelate:
Hmm, just had a thought. Just how literal is Snaggy? He promised us chicks, maybe we'll get chicks. Here chicken, chicken....

Ptl

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quote:

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Originally posted by EngrBohn:
As I was taught in a "these are the things not to say" class the Air Force requires everyone to attend, that's a "disparaging term".

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I've been through diversity training too. But the recycle bins here are still labeled "white paper only" and "colored paper only". I thought we were working to get beyond that!

quote:

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Originally posted by supaboy:
I've been through diversity training too. But the recycle bins here are still labeled "white paper only" and "colored paper only". I thought we were working to get beyond that!

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quote:

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Originally posted by Saintonge:
'paper of color' has been officially ruled harrassement too. So what do we call it?

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quote:

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Originally posted by CyberGoddess:
However, I don't agree in "fluff" which is what he seemed to be implying he wanted... eye candy.

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quote:

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Originally posted by EngrBohn:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Saintonge:
'paper of color' has been officially ruled harrassement too. So what do we call it?

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Errrrr .... guys .... if you'd ever had to work in a multi-racial environment where people are honest about their racial feelings (and in South Africa, we can't afford not to be), then you might realise that "jokes" like this are really extremely hurtful. "Coloured" is a term specifically invented by the apartheid system (the South African one) in order to politically oppress black people.

And if your black colleagues don't feel able to tell you that they don't like these jokes, it's probably because American apartheid hasn't been dismantled as completely as it has in .za

quote:

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Originally posted by Astrid Leuer:
...then you might realise that "jokes" like this are really extremely hurtful...

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quote:

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Originally posted by Astrid Leuer:
..."jokes" like this are really extremely hurtful

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If you took offense, I apologize. My reply to the question of what to call non-white paper ("differently tinted") was not directed at any racial group, but rather at those who are so wrapped up in avoiding offending anybody that they cannot speak plainly. For example, I'm short, not "height-challenged"; fortunately, when I make a mistake, it is still a "mistake" and not an "unright action".

------------------
Christopher A. Bohn
Oooh! What does this button do!?

South Africa and the USA are the only two major nations to have had apartheid systems. Ours ended much more suddenly, and with a more real threat of violence, which is why we've had to face up to a few things which white Americans haven't.

And while I'm being all serious, the truth about sexist language is something I don't think men will *ever* get.

quote:

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Originally posted by Astrid Leuer:
And while I'm being all serious, the truth about sexist language is something I don't think men will *ever* get.

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But isn't that in and of itself a sexist comment right there? A broad generalization? I know plenty of men who understand it and are sensitive to it.

------------------

CyberGoddess
http://www.cybergoddess.net
Member of the NBS

quote:

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Originally posted by CyberGoddess:
But isn't that in and of itself a sexist comment right there? A broad generalization? I know plenty of men who understand it and are sensitive to it.

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And even men who "get it", nine times out of ten, they're just being two-faced. I tend to behave in a very flirty manner, as if I don't mind the odd dirty joke or off-colour remark. You'd be surprised what I learn about a lot of self-styled "sensitive new age guys". So with a very few honourable exceptions, I'll stand by my statement that men (as a whole -- nothing wrong with generalisations in and of themselves) will never understand anything. And continue to use them as sex objects without very much respect. Deal, boys?

I would have something insightful to say, but then astrid would debunk it about me being two faced and just saying it to be a sex object, or something. So I wont say it.

quote:

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Originally posted by Mr. Zarquon:
Geez.
Thats a post that wakes you up in the morning.

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smell the coffee, loverboy

quote:

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I would have something insightful to say, but then astrid would debunk it about me being two faced and just saying it to be a sex object, or something. So I wont say it.

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NO NO NO!!! You should never censor yourself; that's what multicultural awareness is all about. Just say what you feel, but try to think whether you mean what you're saying. I'm sure that the guys didn't mean to belittle and trivialise the experience of apartheid in SA and USA, but that's what they ended up doing.

quote:

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You'd be surprised what I learn about a lot of self-styled "sensitive new age guys". So with a very few honourable exceptions, I'll stand by my statement that men (as a whole -- nothing wrong with generalisations in and of themselves) will never understand anything. And continue to use them as sex objects without very much respect.

---

quote:

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And even men who "get it", nine times out of ten, they're just being two-faced. I tend to behave in a very flirty manner, as if I don't mind the odd dirty joke or off-colour remark. You'd be surprised what I learn about a lot of self-styled "sensitive new age guys".

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For example, I enjoy some pretty nasty jokes with my friends some of the time, sometimes racist jokes, sometimes sexist, but I still find them funny.

And I am a sensitive guy. Really. I am. I guess the difference occurs is that I tend adapt my attitude to the people around me (as most people do). One problem is I am thick as a brick in some areas, while other areas I am extremely sensitive. There are times when I would listen and try to help the situations of my friends. There are other times when I wouldn't give a sh*t about anything in the world, wouldnt talk to or listen to anyone. During those times I would be a total asshole to people, and I knew it. I would try to isolate myself from other people, so I wouldnt hurt them. Unfortunatly during that process, is when I should have been talking to people instead of alienating myself. For a while I was considered not exactly one of the nicest guys at my school (alternative highschool, btw).

I would be considered Two-Faced, since my moods are so very different at times. One time I am a very sensitive and open person, the next, I am a total asshole. But I know this, and have been able to reduce the times I have been in asshole mode severely.

That is why your (astrid) comment about how most with a few exceptions, are two-faced, that Mindy's comments about men being sensitive just to be laid, actually hit a soft spot in me. I took offense to that. I consider myself someone who has very good relationships with the women at my school, in a totally non sexual manner, because during my up times, I am a very sensitve and compassionate person and not because I want to get in their pant(ie)s.

Yes some of my previous posts in the threads (specificly, ones dealing with geek guys sucking as dates) happened out of my despiration for emotional companionship with someone of the opposite sex (so yes, there was some instinctual things going on also).

Now on the that note, I am going to mow the lawn, and listen to my MD player, so I can snap out of the downer I am on right now.

I was actually poking fun at "political correctness".

Astrid:
...which is why we've had to face up to a few things which white Americans haven't.

quote:

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Astrid wrote:

Get yerself an a/c here and we'll show these geek boys a thing or two, huh!? How ya liking the US of A?

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quote:

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Supaboy wrote:

We all grew up post-civil-rights movement. It's not perfect, but that doesn't stop us from smiling and waving as we pass each other on the street.

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Is it worse than the alternative, where everyone makes it clear who they respect or not?

Way back when, when I didn't have self confidence, I was told to act as if I did, and eventually I would. If everyone acts like they respect one another, maybe they eventually will?

Avi (the optimist)

One thing that i've noticed are the people who point out "oh your friends black, so you must not be racist." Actually, ive never taken in account the color of a friends skin to determine whether I like the or not. I don't care whether my friends are purple, black, yellow, green, or turquoise.

I dont get why people have to point out such differences. I mean, cant we just say "look there's a human being, look theres another" and treat each other like that (i know its a pipe dream, but if seen it work on a small scale).

quote:

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Originally posted by Mr. Zarquon:
Well part of it has to do with the fact that there are still groups of people (the older, white upper class) who happen to be in power who also happen to still be racist.

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quote:

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One thing that i've noticed are the people who point out "oh your friends black, so you must not be racist."

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quote:

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I dont get why people have to point out such differences. I mean, cant we just say "look there's a human being, look theres another" and treat each other like that (i know its a pipe dream, but if seen it work on a small scale).

---

It is all very true that there are still racist institutions and sexism in the good ol' usa. However, compare this to fourty years ago, and you cannot deny that the social situation today has definately improved. Sure, we're not there yet (or even close), but doesn't this give some indication that as a whole, warts and all, american society is heading in the right direction?

And is this not some "ain't everything peachy" rant. I just think that if you're going to criticize society as a whole, you should take a larger perspective. It's not easy to overturn cultural institutions that are centuries old in couple of decades.

edit -- As for religous freedom, it's a founding concept that we are free to practice whatever religion we deem fit. However, there's an even more fundamental belief that all people are created equal and that every one has basic fundamental human rights. A religion that violated anyone's human rights would never be allowed. And yes, I don't think this is hypocritical.

------------------
I am a scientist, I seek to understand me
All of my impurities and evils yet unknown
I am a journalist, I write to you to show you,
I am an incurable and nothing else behaves like me
Guided by Voices

Astrid, I gather that you aren't very familiar with the brand of Newspeak going around the USA which is associated with the "Political Correctness" movement.  This is pushed by the political left, and is known for the advocacy of such amusing neologisms as "differently abled" for handicapped, "exceptional children" for the brain-damaged, and of course the wonderfully oxymoronic "politically correct".  They use this language as a system for identifying each other, like badges.  (One of the favored terms these days is "African-American", which specifically does not include people of Boer descent.)

I've worked with people from all over the world (ever done a project with an Indian of Malaysian descent who has an Australian accent? I have).  There are language barriers, and there are cultural barriers, but if you have the will to get past those people are pretty much the same.  There are smart ones, dumb ones, arrogant ones, meek ones, insightful ones and clueless ones no matter where you go.  The thing about PC is that it takes what is a cultural construct which really ought not to be considered important by the alleged goals of PC itself and elevates it to an exalted position of unquestionability.

Case in point:

You get all these nice-seeming white people who say polite things, but you look at the cities and the worst neighborhoods are full of blacks, just like back home.

One of the common ghetto epithets for people who study and try to make something of themselves is that they are "too white" or they are "oreos" (black on the outside, white on the inside).  It is a culture of failure.  The alignment may be by skin tone, but the problem is ultimately one of what people value and what they see as "right" versus "wrong" action.

I can't do anything about this.  My skin is the wrong tone for me to be able to get any credence among people who have been acculturated to give credence to people of their own hue and suspicion to others.  There are quite a few bigots on the minority side here in the USA, look up Al Sharpton and Louis Farrakhan (sp?) for some of the more egregious examples.  If I run into a person holding beliefs like that, I really can't do much except to turn my attention elsewhere.

As for off-color jokes among men, I find this line extremely amusing in a double-entendre sort of way:

My email address has been subtly altered to keep spammers out of my box.

Still, the "sensitive man" routine is a whole lot better than "Don't scream or I'll kill you," right?

• One of us is at our wits' end, and needs some quiet time alone... NOW! or
• Sooner or later, someone will probably be asked to do that again.

quote:

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Originally posted by Tau Zero:
(One of the favored terms these days is "African-American", which specifically does not include people of Boer descent.)

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quote:

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The bad areas are like social cliques, reinforcing their values against the perception of a hostile external society.

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quote:

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As for off-color jokes among men, I find this line extremely amusing in a double-entendre sort of way:

My email address has been subtly altered to keep spammers out of my box.

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quote:

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Still, the "sensitive man" routine is a whole lot better than "Don't scream or I'll kill you," right?

If anything gets to the point of screaming with me, it means either:

• One of us is at our wits' end, and needs some quiet time alone... NOW! or
• Sooner or later, someone will probably be asked to do that again.

See what I mean about double entendres?

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quote:

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(Now I'm wondering if Mindy has listened to much Christine Lavin...)

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Yes, it does, and it's my perception (and a lot of other's) that it is the case.

Hmm, a study in demographics. I work in an R&D group, about 60 engineers and managers. Maybe 10 of these are women, a couple-three are black, and about 2 speak spanish. (One is from Puerto Rico, not sure of the others.) The balance are asian and white men. Medium typical mix for high tech.

The numbers of women in the field are definately increasing, (asians went from small numbers to high amounts in a couple of decades) but blacks and mex-am people are just hanging in there. A few engineers here and there, but seldom more than one or two in a goodsized group.

I'm not sure why all the effects, but there are some minority groups around here who've figured out how to get off the bottom tier of the ladder right quick. (Case in point, the tiny Cambodian community here seemed to have figured out that donut shops are an attractive source of income and capital. There's a disproportionate number of them running the shops (at least according to the local paper as of a couple years ago.))

BTW, "Box" -- not off the mark, at least in the States. Slang for _____ (one of the male fixations).

Astrid and Mindy. Fine regards the racism mostly. But regards guys, you 2 are a bit afield from reality.

First off, usery != feminism. Not even coming from women. What a sad, pathetic, loser, wounded, stance.

Second off, men and women as best as I can tell from my long sojourn -- want much the same things -- we're all sexual human beings -- but have different approaches.
Face it, we have far different cultured responses. And probably biological ones as well (though anyone who claims to no just what's nature vs. nurture seems to be a bit clueless to me with an axe to grind at the very least.

Also, not all of us cheat on our loves. Fidelity has some interesting properties ... even if it's nearly impossible.

Agree with prior guy about 'sensitive guys'. Sure it's often a racket. But sometimes it's not at all the case.

To me one of the points about feminism
is to go beyond caricature into real understanding. To go beyond patterned response. I don't consider either of
you feminists based on what I read from you.

You've caricatured males, and seduced yourselves with your pretensions of wily worldliness...consequently protecting yourself from much dross, and isolating yourself from truly meeting beauty at the heart level with a male of your species.

Cras, you got your chicks here.

quote:

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Originally posted by Astrid Leuer:
Errrrr .... guys .... if you'd ever had to work in a multi-racial environment where people are honest about their racial feelings (and in South Africa, we can't afford not to be), then you might realise that "jokes" like this are really extremely hurtful. "Coloured" is a term specifically invented by the apartheid system (the South African one) in order to politically oppress black people.

And if your black colleagues don't feel able to tell you that they don't like these jokes, it's probably because American apartheid hasn't been dismantled as completely as it has in .za

---

I do believe what we have here is a failure to communicate.

In South Africa, as I understand it, �coloured� was one of the apartheid system�s official racial categories. In the USA, there was never such a big distinction between �pure� black ancestry and �mixed.� If you have any black African ancestry, you�re �black,� even if your skin tone is so light that people have trouble deciding if that�s African genes or a deep tan. (If your skin tone is so light that people assume you�re of pure white European ancestry, and you don�t disabuse them, then you�re �passing,� but you�re still �black.�)

Also, in the USA, the preferred, polite racial terminology has changed a lot over the years. Around the turn of the century, �Negro� and �Colored� were considered polite (see e.g., The National Association For the Advancement of Colored People, aka NAACP.) �Afra-American� was occasionally encountered, �Nigra� was used in the South (possibly with disparaging intent), and �****** � was an insult everywhere, if the person uttering it was non-black.

Around 1968, the terminology went through a change. �Afro-American� was in vogue for a short period (�About a week,� according to one black acquaintance), and was then replaced with �black� or �Black,� depending on who was spelling it. We who thought that �the people whose ancestors were brought here as slaves� had bigger problems then whether their skin pigmentation was referred to by the English or Spanish/Portuguese word for �opposite of white� rolled our eyes, but went along with this.

Then, in the late 1980s, the term �people of color� came into use to refer to non-whites, including blacks, American Indians, Asians (sometimes), Pacific Islanders, and Mexicans/Hispanics/Chicanos/let�s-not-get-into-that-controversy. (It is undoubtedly a only my noted lack of sensitivity and Political Correctness that makes me unable to see the great advance �people of color� is over �colored people.�) Just lately, the term �African-American� has come into use for �the racial group that used to be called Negroes,� but while it has secured a beachhead, it has not managed to defeat �black� in popular usage.

The only constant in all this is that �****** � is still an insult, so much so in fact that it is usually written as �the n-word� instead of being spelled out, and is never acceptable to use, unless uttered by someone who is black.

Also in the late 1980s, mandatory �diversity� training became a major scam requirement on U.S. campuses, among other places, and one of its emphases is immense sensitivity to terminology.

So, supaboy noticed the �white paper only,� �colored paper only� recycling containers, and made a joke that played off the desire to end racial separatism in USAmerican life. In turn, I was reminded of an actual incident on a US campus, where someone taped over the �colored paper� label with �paper of color� and got reprimanded for it. So I made my joke, and EngrBohn replied with his.

I don�t know if there�s anyone in this forum who considers themself to be non-white, but if they do, and they tell me they thought my remarks offensive, I will apologize. But Astrid, South Africa was/is too different from the US to apply the same social standards. (Among other things, in the US it is not PC for people to be �honest about their racial feelings.� Indeed, it is in many circumstances illegal.)

quote:

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Short people haven't been, within memory, kept as literal slaves and deprived of their civil rights. Women and black people have.

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If there�s anyone in the USA who remembers slavery, they should get in touch with the Guinness Book of World Records. They're over 135 years old! Btw, where/when were women qua women slaves?

quote:

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Originally posted by Mindy Viridis:
Well duh, girl, "sensitive man" is just another trick for getting laid... I think every woman knows that. If I had a dollar for every guy who's ever tried to sneak into me that way (well, I guess I'd be a cheap whore... so much for that clich�). I now have a stock reply when a guy says he needs some sympathy: "I don't keep it in my panties!!!" Still, the "sensitive man" routine is a whole lot better than "Don't scream or I'll kill you," right?

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Welcome, Mindy, to the forum and the USA!

(Aside, both you and Astrid just use your names, instead of some cute handle/nickname. Are such nicknames uncommon in SA, or what?)

Not every woman has caught on to the �sensitive man� trick, fortunately, but far too many have. Guy Conspiracy Central is now working on the next major pickup approach, but it isn�t ready for beta testing yet.

Btw, the �well, I guess I�d be a cheap whore� line is LOL funny, but potentially PI.

quote:

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Originally posted by Swope:
Most guys you'll find are multi-faceted,

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And most women too. It is one of the major objectives of the Political Correctness movement to deny this, but then, PC is just the latest disguise of the Left, and they�re Left because they hate people. But that�s another rant.

quote:

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Mindy:
The USA, well, it's... interesting... I haven't got used to it yet. In .za you know who's a racist, because they'll tell you so in no uncertain terms. But in America I can't tell!

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An interesting insight. Please tell us of more noticeable differences between the US and SA.

Fyi, in modern USAmerica, it is so impolite/offensive/PI to be openly racist that no white person will admit to it, except among those whom they trust utterly, or in certain very restricted circles.

Anti-white racism is somewhat more acceptable, though this too depends a great deal on the social group. Among the groups in which anti-white racism is acceptable, it is frequently claimed that it is not racism, because racism is something only white people are capable of.

quote:

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You get all these nice-seeming white people who say polite things, but you look at the cities and the worst enighborhoods are full of blacks, just like back home. I suppose you can't change history overnight, but I thought they went through the whole racial equality thing thirty, forty years ago??? How long does it take? But that's another topic.

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Uh, the neighborhoods are bad and full of blacks, but the blacks weren�t moved there because we decided to have a bad neighborhood in a certain place. See below for more on the topic of what �causes� crime, grime, and general disgustingness.

quote:

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At least I feel physically safer here, not like Cape Town where it seemed like every week or two you'd get home after work and find out one of your neighbors was attacked by a kaffir gang, the husband beaten, the wife raped, the house smashed up and all the liquor drunk up. That sort of thing doesn't happen anywhere in the USA as far as I can tell. But that's also another topic, for another time...

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Such things happen in the US, but mostly in the bad neighborhoods (or public parks, especially parks in third world cities like New York). Also, most forced-entry rapes are done by singleton males or small groups. If a large gang of blacks tried that in a middle class neighborhood in the US, the only question is who�d get them first, the police or the fifty percent of USAmericans who keep firearms in the home.

Btw, is �kaffir� polite SA usage for those of Xhosa/Zulu/other Bantu ancestry?

quote:

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That's the kind of thing I mean about Americans. It reminds me of that movie Becket, with Richard Burton, where Becket goes to see the Pope and all the scheming churchmen say to themselves, "He does sincerity so well!" Americans are so good at seeming to respect each other, you can't tell whether they really do or not. They treat everyone the way white South African men only treat white South African women, like someone who has something they want and it's good strategy to be nice to them until they can get it.

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Thank you. It�s good to know our manners are better than we so frequently fear.

Fyi, referring to residents of the USA as �Americans� is considered offensive in all countries south of the US/Mexican border. They refer to us as �North Americans,� a usage I can not accept because it is Geographically Incorrect (thus my neologism �USAmerican.�) As someone living in San Francisco, where you will encounter many Latin Americans and even more anti-Americans, you may wish to change your manner of speaking.

quote:

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Originally posted by Mr. Zarquon:
I don�t get why people have to point out such differences. I mean, can�t we just say "look there's a human being, look there�s another" and treat each other like that (I know its a pipe dream, but if seen it work on a small scale).

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Because human beings are small group social animals, and in order for there to be an �in group� that you belong to, there has to be an �out group� for contrast. *sigh*

Still, we make progress.

quote:

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Mindy:
That's interesting. So in effect, the USA is still a racist country, even if perhaps some of the citizens may not be anymore.

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The other way around. The US is a non-racist country, but some of the population are still racists to one degree or another.

quote:

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Mr. Zarquon:
One thing that I've noticed are the people who point out "oh your friends black, so you must not be racist."

---

quote:

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Mindy:
The funny thing is that in .za that would actually make sense!

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I think it makes sense here too, but then, I�m a Known Fascist, so my opinion doesn�t count.

Seriously, the question �Just what constitutes racism?� is a subject of great debate here.

quote:

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Mindy:
For instance some black cultures think that killing a chicken is a religious thing, but most white people think of that as cruelty to animals and it's not acceptable even as a religious observance. So how can these cultures live together? I've heard some American liberals say that anything religious should be allowed, but what about cults where sexual abuse is part of the ritual? Do you tolerate someone else's religion even when their practices violate fundamental principles of your civilization? And of course with the modern United Nations and its worldwide, uniform notions of "rights", you can't even claim sovereignty as an excuse anymore.

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Welcome to culture shock, Ms. South African. A few years back, some city in the US passed a law to stop animal sacrifice, and the U.S. Supreme Court struck it down as violating the First and Fourteenth Amendments guarantees of religious freedom.

As for �sexual abuse� or �fundamental principles of your civilization,� you�ll have to be more specific. I know of court cases where people have tried to label prostitution religion, but they�ve uniformly failed.

So that�s how we live together -- with difficulty, but successfully.

As for the UN, we�ve got nukes, they don�t, fuck you General Assembly.

quote:

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This is going sooooo far offtopic...

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�But isn�t it nice!�

quote:

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Originally posted by Tau Zero:
(One of the favored terms these days is "African-American", which specifically does not include people of Boer descent.)

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quote:

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Mindy:
Yes, and I've noticed the term "Native American" too, which at first I did not realize does not include white people even if their ancestors came to the New World 300 years ago!

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Ah, we�re just colonialist interlopers -- unless, of course, certain recent controversial archeological discoveries are true, in which case American Indians are also colonialist interlopers (which is why the discoveries are so controversial).

quote:

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Tau Zero:
The bad areas are like social cliques, reinforcing their values against the perception of a hostile external society.

---

quote:

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Mindy:
But what values are they reinforcing? You make it sound like they've decided that being poor, uneducated, and crime-ridden is an essential part of their cultural identity, while at the same time insisting that their problems are due to white racism. That sounds crazy.

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Well, they�d deny that they want to be poor, but as for uneducated, that is a black underclass cultural value. Criminality also has many fans in the black underclass. See
The Boondocks by Aaron McGruder, one of whose characters has the life ambition to grow up to be a thug. (It is, btw, pretty funny, and since it�s by a black artist, it�s not [yet] PI).

Telling members of this subculture that criminality, lack of education, and other of their cultural values guarantees that they will be poor is so PI that anyone uttering the sentiments is automatically proven to be a racist.

quote:

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??? Are you reading something sexual into the idea of spam email getting "into" my mailbox? I know men can see sexual symbolism in almost anything ("male" and "female" electrical connectors, for instance), but this seems like a stretch.

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As you�ve probably figured out by now, �box� is a USAmerican slang term for vagina.

quote:

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Originally posted by Petethelate:
(Case in point, the tiny Cambodian community here seemed to have figured out that donut shops are an attractive source of income and capital. There's a disproportionate number of them running the shops (at least according to the local paper as of a couple years ago.))

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That�s true all over California. (*sigh* Minnesota has many good qualities, but it�s a donut wilderness.) According to a story I read, a Cambodian was working at a donut shop in the seventies, and figured out that donut shops were a business that could be run by those with low capital and poor English skills, especially if the whole family worked there and were satisfied with lower income than most whites. So he opened his own shop, other Cambodians saw he had a good thing there, the word spread ...