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T O P I C     R E V I E W
Ashitaka
Member # 4924
 - posted April 08, 2010 00:13
smokergeddon

There are so many thigns about this that are pissing me off I just have to list them.

1)
quote:
a passenger who had apparently lighted a cigarette in an airline lavatory on Wednesday night, leading Norad to scramble two fighter jets
What are the fighter jets for, are they going to shoot down a plane full opf passengers because someone was smoking in the bathroom!!! JFC! Those things are expesive to fly! ANd even if they thought someone had snuck an explosive on the plane and was trying to light it, what were tehy going to do?? Prevent the terroritst from blowing up the plane by doing it themselves?


2)
quote:
two people also seated in first class — who turned out to be air marshals
WTF, air marchals fly first class. couldn't they save ALOT of money and have them fly coach. they could hire more air marshals, and have them on more flights if they fly coach, or at least business. ( for the people who don't fly, Zürich -> Chicago coach is ca 1500-2000 USD, business is 3500-4500 USD and first is like 9000 USD)

3)
quote:
made sarcastic comments that the marshals took as a threat
If they new he was being sarcastic at teh time, how can those words be simultaneously taken as a threat, either they took the comments as an actual threat, or they new he was being sarcastic, itcan't be both!!

4)
quote:
it appeared the man had been smoking a cigarette in the bathroom, had tried to cover it up, and then had made an “unfortunate comment.”
If he had been smoking in the bathroom, the airmarshals should have questioned him, maybe put his name on the no fly list, but now, it seems evry event is treated as if it could be a terrortist attack. THis is inF*ckingsane. People seem to think this is ok.

And his unfortuante comment was funny, I support him in that ( but absolutly not the smoking), those air marshals were probably being real d1cks.

5)This guy has diplomatic immunity, he should have been questioned and warned about not smoking on a flight, he should have been told it is dangerous and stupid, but why is he detained?? Do we want our diplomats harrased in foreign countries becuase we arrested a diplomat for smoking. I will go so far as to write, if he was a european diplomat, he wouldn't have been detained.
 
TheMoMan
Member # 1659
 - posted April 08, 2010 03:33
____ Ash. That is why every one has to fly naked. Nothing to light.

____ A truck driver delivering new pumps (Big Pumps) to the Saginaw Sewage treatment plant was hassled by the City Police for parking his truck in the delivery drive way and sleeping until the plant workers arrived, Well the cop calls for backup they wake him up tell him they think his load is suspicious and demand to know what it is, he tells them they are (POOP) pumps, they claim they look like bombs and he replies "yeah and here is the detonator" as he shows them a ball point pen. So they haul him off to jail and call for a wrecker to remove the truck. At starting time the workers, who had been expecting the pumps watch the video and call the cops about their shipment had been stolen, meanwhile the cops had called the Feds to come up from Detroit to look at the load of bombs.

____ So half of the police force is looking for a stolen Semi, and the other half is guarding a semi truck load of bombs, until some one adds up two and two. The Federal Bomb squad upon their arrival get out of their armored truck and start laughing.
 
GrumpySteen
Member # 170
 - posted April 08, 2010 08:04
Ashitaka wrote:
What are the fighter jets for, are they going to shoot down a plane full opf passengers because someone was smoking in the bathroom!!! JFC!


People on the ground have no way of knowing for certain what's happening on board the plane since the pilot could, theoretically, be being forced to say it was just a guy smoking in the bathroom. Our government tends to respond by assuming the worst.

ANd even if they thought someone had snuck an explosive on the plane and was trying to light it, what were tehy going to do?? Prevent the terroritst from blowing up the plane by doing it themselves?

They're there to shoot the plane down if it deviates from the route to the airport, which would indicate someone other than the pilot is in control. Everyone is still freaked out by the idea of planes being flow into buildings.

WTF, air marchals fly first class. couldn't they save ALOT of money and have them fly coach. they could hire more air marshals, and have them on more flights if they fly coach, or at least business.

Nobody in the air marshal program is trying to save money.

If they new he was being sarcastic at teh time, how can those words be simultaneously taken as a threat

He said he was trying to set his shoes on fire. I'm not sure I see the humor in that since there's already been an attempted shoe-bombing. They had no way of knowing for certain thathe was being sarcastic, so they erred on the side of caution.

it seems evry event is treated as if it could be a terrortist attack. THis is inF*ckingsane. People seem to think this is ok.

No, we really don't. Most of us think it's stupid, but the most vocal people are terrified of anyone who doesn't have lily-white skin and a cross stuck up their ass, so that's the impression the rest of the world gets. Unfortunately, the most vocal people are also the most likely to vote, so the politicians have been pandering to them for decades.

This guy has diplomatic immunity, he should have been questioned and warned about not smoking on a flight, he should have been told it is dangerous and stupid, but why is he detained??

Diplomats are immune to being prosecuted, not to being detained and/or deported. Making a threat, even if it's a dumbass joke, is illegal for the same reason that yelling "FIRE" in a crowded theater is illegal. The guy broke a law, whether you agree with the law or not. He won't be punished for it, but someone has to decide if he's going to be deported. Until they make that decision, he'll be detained. This is pretty standard and it's the same treatment our diplomats are supposed to get if they break a law in another countru.
 
TheMoMan
Member # 1659
 - posted April 08, 2010 12:15
____ Send him home for being STUPID, Here's your sign. [Envy]
 
Mr. Geek 2U
Member # 28663
 - posted April 08, 2010 18:10
Hello Mr. Ashitaka!

No offence!

Smoking on an airplane is against the law!

Threatening to light a bomb on an airplane is against the law!

The diplomat was going to visit a terra-ist!

Now he will not be a diplomat in the USA anymore.

I would not like to be on an airplane that catches fire!

Have a great day!

Please do not be so angry that you catch fire. Expesshally on an airplane!

Mr. Geek 2U!
 
Ashitaka
Member # 4924
 - posted April 08, 2010 23:58
quote:
Originally posted by Mr. Geek 2U:
Hello Mr. Ashitaka!

No offence!

Smoking on an airplane is against the law!

Threatening to light a bomb on an airplane is against the law!

The diplomat was going to visit a terra-ist!

Now he will not be a diplomat in the USA anymore.

I would not like to be on an airplane that catches fire!

Have a great day!

Please do not be so angry that you catch fire. Expesshally on an airplane!

Mr. Geek 2U!

no offence taken.

Smoking on an airplane may be against the law, and dumb, but it cannot be that dangerous, as it used to be allowed which equals hundreds of thousands of flight hours of experience with this activity and no downed planes.

As for the threat being agaist the law, satire is protected in the bill of rights. this case is not equal to yelling fire in a crouded theater becuase in the theater case, the majority of the peopel there are frightened and believe that there is a fire. This was an obvious case of satire. yelling fire in a crouded theater is not satire or parody



A satire tends to invent a fictitious situation (though possibly with elements that actually occurred) for the purpose of ridiculing someone or even some idea.


and to conclude

Justice Louis Brandeis in a concurring opinion joined by Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes wrote that
quote:
“Fear of serious injury cannot alone justify suppression of free speech … . Men feared witches and burnt women. It is the function of speech to free men from the bondage of irrational fears. To justify suppression of free speech there must be reasonable ground to fear that serious evil will result if free speech is practiced.”

(Whitney v. California)
 
TheMoMan
Member # 1659
 - posted April 09, 2010 03:21
____ "Anything you say, can and will be used against you." (Miranda)

____ Dumb, education will fix that.

____ Stupid is forever.
 
dragonman97
Member # 780
 - posted April 09, 2010 07:11
I love satire...but it has its place, and that place is *not* in a conversation with an air marshal upon being found in a lavatory with something fire-related.

That's criminally stupid.

Even if some LEOs are bent, you treat them with respect and a serious demeanor. That helps avoid a trip to southern retreats in the sun, or the wrong end of a nightstick to southern regions without sun.
 
Ashitaka
Member # 4924
 - posted April 09, 2010 07:34
Satire would not require protection if it was never used to satire those with power. Satire is disrespectful, and does belong in conversations with overzealous police.

...but even the NYT sided against me on the deciding if this is an overreaction or not.

cowards

ps

and really, I do not make ethical decision by looking at if somethign is legal or not. Abortions are legal, in most cases, I think it is wrong. Drinking alcohol is illegal at 16 or 18 in the US, which I really don't have a problem with.deciding write and wrong by looking at what is legal or illegal is the easy way out, and you wouldn't have the freedom you have today if your predecesors had done this. ( and for an extreme case, for women to drive a car in Saudi Arabia is illegal, and in many cases, I think it is OK for women to drive, that is a joke ... albiet not a very good one.)
 
GrumpySteen
Member # 170
 - posted April 09, 2010 16:16
So, if someone comes out of a bathroom on an airplane and everyone smells something burning, it's overzealous for an air marshal to ask if that person was smoking?
 
Xanthine
Member # 736
 - posted April 09, 2010 16:45
First of all, it's not the least bit unreasonable for an air marshal to make inquiries when he or she smells smoke coming out of an airplane bathroom because people ARE NOT ALLOWED TO SMOKE ON PLANES. That's why there're no smoking signs all over the place. My take on this is the diplomat was just an all around fool, first for smoking in a place where he wasn't allowed to be smoking and would be about guaranteed to be caught smoking and second for that clever little remark. Good grief. Where did Qatar find this guy and when are they going to fire him?

The air marshals are paid to take threats seriously. All LEOs are paid to take threats seriously. It's generally a very bad idea to get cute with anyone in a uniform because people in uniform really aren't allowed to have a sense of humor in their professional dealings (unless they're trying to put you at ease) with the general public. Furthermore, when someone is speaking a second language, the sarcasm can be hard to detect.

So all in all, this whole thing was regrettable but the only real overreaction is how the press won't shut up about it. A moron got on a plane and did something moronic. No one got hurt. The moron won't be facing any charges and is going on home where he can live out the rest of his moronic life.
 
GrumpySteen
Member # 170
 - posted April 09, 2010 17:27
Also, is it too much to expect a diplomat to be... you know... diplomatic?
 
GrumpySteen
Member # 170
 - posted April 12, 2010 14:39
Previously, I wrote:
He won't be punished for it, but someone has to decide if he's going to be deported. Until they make that decision, he'll be detained.

Oh look. He's being deported. And he won't face charges.

Precisely what's supposed to happen when a diplomat violates a country's laws.

Yay.
 
fs
Member # 1181
 - posted April 25, 2010 03:33
While various uniform enhanced individuals do occasionally develop an inflated sense of self-importance and abuse their power, it seems like in this situation, they were dealing with a guy that thought the rules don't apply to him. He got what he deserved. Jesus, if you need the nicotine that bad that you can't go the flight without some, buy a pack of the gum.
 




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