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T O P I C     R E V I E W
fs
Member # 1181
 - posted April 17, 2009 04:37
The whole Pirate Bay trial has been big news everywhere, not just Sweden. What do you guys think of the verdict

I think the fine is outlandish, and jailtime ridiculous, since it was never proven in court that they were making money from it.
 
Mac D
Member # 2926
 - posted April 17, 2009 10:58
They have Music and Hollywood movies on that site? I thought it was all Pr0n.
 
fs
Member # 1181
 - posted April 17, 2009 11:05
I'm not sure that the verdict will achieve the result intended by the anti-piracy organizations. The Pirate Party is now the fifth largest party in Sweden, and gained another 500 members since we joined an hour ago.

member growth chart
real time membership ticker (Pirate Party is the live one in the middle.)

And you don't actually have to be Swedish to join.
 
Stereo
Member # 748
 - posted April 17, 2009 12:10
quote:
Originally posted by fs:
I think the fine is outlandish, and jailtime ridiculous, since it was never proven in court that they were making money from it.

I think that since they were actually condoning the pirating of copyrighted material (even if they tried to defend themselves with "it can be used for legit downloads" - c'mon, then why choose that name?), and new that illegal activity was done doing their sites and did nothing to stop it, they had to be found guilty. And then the fine and jailtime is a warning for those who would like to take their place. It probably won't work, mind you, but in the mean time, industries will get some money out of it.

By the way, that's why I prefer iTunes to most other way to get music: 1) it's legit, and 2) more money goes to the artist than with traditionnal distribution means. Hey, it can even be a promotional tool: one singer (and quite talented too) went on a TV show and said: "if I sell to 1% of the watchers of this show, I can rent [famous New-York concert hall, I forgot which] for one night." The guy is a whizz, too. He used utubes to get invited at that show, and hope to get invited on Oprah's show with a similar invitation. Oh, and he sells his concert tickets himself.

Hem. Back to topic.
 
fs
Member # 1181
 - posted April 17, 2009 12:26
quote:
Originally posted by Stereo:
quote:
Originally posted by fs:
I think the fine is outlandish, and jailtime ridiculous, since it was never proven in court that they were making money from it.

I think that since they were actually condoning the pirating of copyrighted material (even if they tried to defend themselves with "it can be used for legit downloads" - c'mon, then why choose that name?), and new that illegal activity was done doing their sites and did nothing to stop it, they had to be found guilty. And then the fine and jailtime is a warning for those who would like to take their place. It probably won't work, mind you, but in the mean time, industries will get some money out of it.

They were actually found guilty of just being accessories, and the defense had several components, with one of the main ones being that they never hosted any of the infringing content and that it was users who initiated transactions.

In the U.S., that sentence probably wouldn't have even raised in eyebrows. In Sweden, you'd expect that someone had been physically assaulted to merit that much jail time. (Keep in mind that with the exclusion of life sentences, the maximum jail term is 10 years.) That's without even figuring in the fine.

Apparently abetting copyright infringers is at least as serious a crime as physically assaulting someone.
 
Richard Wolf VI
Member # 4993
 - posted April 18, 2009 00:58
I don't wanna go offtopic, but legit music sales have gone downhill from year to year respecting albums, and it's become a bargain battle in the singles field. Profits are on their lowest point: Albums are costing the same singles used to cost last decade, and their sales are plummeting (When was he last time an album went Diamond and sold over 10 million in the US?); singles are selling by the millions while they used to be more like promotional material for the album.

The album format is dead, people just buy the songs they want, and since they're cheap, profits are plummeting while shifting to the single. I don't see a solution, but I may assure you that piracy is not the cause. Music as a business has to keep with the times while keeping profitable, not quite an easy feat.
 
fs
Member # 1181
 - posted April 18, 2009 13:27
And the Pirate Party has now surpassed the Christian Democrats in members and moved up to the fourth largest party in Sweden. Apparently a news spot tonight got them 400 new members in around ten minutes.
 
fs
Member # 1181
 - posted April 20, 2009 11:29
Yet another study showing a positive correlation between downloading and purchases. This time from the Norwegians.
 
Richard Wolf VI
Member # 4993
 - posted April 20, 2009 21:23
If I never got to download all Duran Duran discography in the first place, I might never been a Duranie, nor bought later two CDs and a DVD, plus paying premium for a good place at their concert last November. I've spent almost 160 dollars on official Duran Duran merchandise, not bad for a pirate [Razz]
 
fs
Member # 1181
 - posted April 21, 2009 00:30
I don't really download music, and if I do it's usually from the internet archive. (Pretty sure Jelly Roll Morton is out of copyright. They seem to think so.)

Now ebooks I download a lot, also from legal sources. So glad that a lot of publishers seem to be realizing, just like heroin dealers, that iif you give them the first taste for free, they'll come back for more.

I know it's just anecdotal evidence, but I do see confirmation of that in my buying patterns. When Tor.com was offering monthly free ebook downloads, one of the titles was Crystal Rain by Tobias Buckell.

I never started the ebook. (That's a whole other topic of discussion there--people are downloading more media than they can feasibly consume. I know I do.) But then I saw a link to an essay posted on his blog, and there was a little bit of name recognition. "Oh, I've heard of that guy. I think he writes science fiction."

I saw he was on Twitter, and started following him. (Twitter is the new RSS.) Visited his blog a couple more times.

So a couple weeks ago, I was ordering some books, and looking for something for Maswan, who reads a lot when he travels, and I thought "You know, I don't think we have any Tobias Buckell," so I bought a couple.

Now, it's been over a year since I downloaded a free ebook that I didn't actually read, and it's the initiating event in a sequence that led to selling two books, one of which we already have as a free ebook. And if we like them, we'll definitely buy more. I have more experimental buying habits, I'll try something out based on the strength of a couple reviews (or an unread ebook and some blog posts), and Maswan is very loyal to writers whose work he enjoys, and will buy their work over something untried.

I started reading J.A. Konrath based on the same thing, an unread ebook and some blog postings. I don't find his work exactly to my taste, but when I read it, I knew my mom would love it. So there's the two books I bought for myself, the four I bought for my mom, which she leant to one of my sisters, who is also a huge fan now. So again, two new loyal readers and six books sold, on the basis of a free ebook and some blogging. But again, it took a bit over a year before it paid off for the writer.
 
fs
Member # 1181
 - posted April 23, 2009 03:30
Oh look, Tomas Norström, the judge that decided the appropriate punishment for being an accessory to sharing copyrighted files should be comparable to that for committing violent felonies is a member of pro-copyright advocacy organizations. Among others, he's a member of Svenska föreningen för upphovsrätt (which translates as "The Swedish Association for Copyright") along with all three attorneys that represented the entertainment industry. (Peter Danowsky, Henrik Pontén and Monique Wadsted.) Not only that, a juror was dismissed for being a member of the same organizations as the judge.

Um, yeah.

There should, without question, be a retrial.
 
Zwilnik
Member # 615
 - posted April 23, 2009 05:34
I would think that all judges that have enough knowledge to judge a copyright law case would be members of copyright advocacy groups. It's not an indication of bias, just an indication that they know their field. You'd hardly expect them to be members of groups that advocate breaking the law would you?
 
fs
Member # 1181
 - posted April 23, 2009 06:02
quote:
Originally posted by Zwilnik:
I would think that all judges that have enough knowledge to judge a copyright law case would be members of copyright advocacy groups. It's not an indication of bias, just an indication that they know their field. You'd hardly expect them to be members of groups that advocate breaking the law would you?

Copyright advocacy groups have a clear agenda regarding changing the law.

Would you be of the same opinion if a judge that was an involved member of the Pirate Party (which is a legitimate political party advocating for copyright reform) had found them not-guilty?

And you see no problems with having a judge that was a member of the same organizations that a lay judge (similar to a juror in the Swedish system) was deemed unfit for belonging to?

He's a board member of the Swedish Association for the Protection of Industrial Property--that's not a benevolent organization for the theoretical discussion of copyright law, by the way, it's a lobby group. How is that not biased?

He should have recused himself on the basis of that alone. Under Swedish law, merely the appearance of bias is reason to disqualify a judge. I would think that all judges that have enough knowledge to judge any case would have a basic understanding of that. He should never have presided over that trial.
 
fs
Member # 1181
 - posted May 01, 2009 05:12
It's looking like the Pirate Party may win a seat in the next EU election. Even a minority voice bringing a perspective other than corporate lobby group to discussions about patents and copyright would be a change for the better.
 




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