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Posted by Callipygous (Member # 2071) on July 21, 2011, 02:44:
 
So Mac Geeks are you on the bleeding edge, or does your lion sleep tonight?

I've bought my copy, but I'm leaving it for a while, until I see what problems there are. My fingers are itching to take it for a spin though. I dont think I have any old PPC apps I rely on, but I'd better double check. And what about memory, does it need more RAM than Snowy?

So what are your stories bleeding edge geeks? Is it working for you? Should I jump in now, or is it worth waiting?
 
Posted by garlicguy (Member # 3166) on July 21, 2011, 03:09:
 
I can't help you with your question yet, Cally. I'm holding off until the verdicts are in, as per my usual cautionary practice...

gg
 
Posted by Snaggy (Member # 123) on July 21, 2011, 03:10:
 
I prepared for a couple of weeks beforehand... giving up my Rosetta-running PowerPC apps and learning newer programs.

So far, I like it! My computer seems a little zippier, but then again, maybe they just cranked up my mouse settings.

Thank goodness for things like "Use classic layout" in Mail, and the option to switch the scrolling back from "Natural" to normal.

Not sure I like the grayscale look. Although it does remind me of those good olde days on my SE.
Love that you can grab anywhere and change window size. (about time!)

So far, no horror stories. 1Password has hiccuped a few times. I think the main attraction is the fun distraction of checking out what's new, and ooooh, I have a new desktop! [Razz]
 
Posted by Stibbons (Member # 2515) on July 21, 2011, 03:49:
 
Also holding off. Hopefully it'll be new laptop time soon enough (new year, new DSA assessment), and if so I'll just get it pre-installed.
 
Posted by dragonman97 (Member # 780) on July 21, 2011, 11:10:
 
Quick FYI: I'd recommend that anyone who's planning to go to Lion should read this first:
http://lifehacker.com/5823096/how-to-burn-your-own-lion-install-dvd-or-flash-drive

Otherwise, I don't believe you'll be able to easily reload if your machine has any 'issues' down the road and needs to be wiped. (The "Apple way" seems to be 'install the OEM OS first' (e.g. 10.6) and then download and upgrade to Lion. I say 'bah' to that route.)

I haven't done nearly enough reading up about 10.7 yet, and probably won't consider it 'til 10.7.1 or 10.7.2. If I can get approval, I may try it out at work and get familiar with how good/bad it is first. [Smile]
 
Posted by Xanthine (Member # 736) on July 21, 2011, 17:25:
 
He's not a lion. He just thinks he is. And yes, he is purring... Oops. Sorry.

Oh come on. You knew someone was going to come in and say something like that. [Razz]

In all seriousness, I'll probably just wait until it's time for a new computer. My MacBook turned four this year. I'm pretty sure I can get another year out of it. At least.
 
Posted by angryjungman (Member # 2434) on July 21, 2011, 23:45:
 
quote:
Originally posted by dragonman97:
Quick FYI: I'd recommend that anyone who's planning to go to Lion should read this first:
http://lifehacker.com/5823096/how-to-burn-your-own-lion-install-dvd-or-flash-drive

Otherwise, I don't believe you'll be able to easily reload if your machine has any 'issues' down the road and needs to be wiped.

Actually, Apple sneaks a new ~650MB "rescue" partition on there during the install. So if you need to nuke and pave, you can boot from that. Of course if your entire HDD dies you're still screwed....
 
Posted by dragonman97 (Member # 780) on July 22, 2011, 02:10:
 
650 MB is kinda small, no?

Besides, I dislike 'download' stuff, and enjoy having the freedom to do as I please with things that I purchase. I'm more than a bit leery of the 'as stated' Lion migration path, as it deprives me of the ability to properly reload my computer. (read: Wipe clean and load from scratch)

Still, I'm glad they have some sort of contingency plan -- and part of that is probably due to the MacBook Air's lack of DVD drive.


...loosely related......

Dear LazyWeb,

Has anyone run Firefox 3.6 on Lion successfully?

I somewhat accidentally upgraded to Fx5 on my laptop at home a few weeks ago, *hated* the performance with Netflix (inter alia) and had to downgrade. I'm not in the mood to try that again, and so I'd be thrilled to hear that it works.
(Mind you, I'm writing this in Fx5 on WinXP, but I don't really use any multimedia in it - I kick Flash stuff to Chrome.)
 
Posted by The Famous Druid (Member # 1769) on July 22, 2011, 11:59:
 
Re: the JOT "What happened to my scrollbar?"

Looking at the Apple web site, it looks like the scrollbar change is similar to the most recent version of Ubuntu, a dreadful mis-feature that I Really Do Not Like.

I might hold off on the 'upgrade' till I've had a chance to try it out at the local Apple shop.
 
Posted by dragonman97 (Member # 780) on July 23, 2011, 09:06:
 
quote:
Originally posted by The Famous Druid:
Re: the JOT "What happened to my scrollbar?"

Looking at the Apple web site, it looks like the scrollbar change is similar to the most recent version of Ubuntu, a dreadful mis-feature that I Really Do Not Like.

I might hold off on the 'upgrade' till I've had a chance to try it out at the local Apple shop.

Funny thing - while it seems superbly horrible (take away my scroll bar?!), I think the only thing I'd miss is the perception of how far I am on a given page (via the thumb).

Ever since Apple introduced two-finger scroll, I pretty much stopped using the scroll bar, and I consider the aqua blue scroll bar kinda fugly. OTOH, I know the very first thing I'd do is turn off 'natural' scrolling. Old habits die hard, and up means up, darn it! [Smile]

If tomorrow is cooler, I might swing by the Apple Store and see if I can get my paws on Lion. Then I can make a remotely informed decision.

P.S. As to Ubuntu, I'll assume that's another "Gnome blindly follows Apple without thinking" move -- all the more reason I don't touch it. Kubuntu's alright, I suppose, but I'm more of a pure Debian guy. [Smile]
 
Posted by The Famous Druid (Member # 1769) on July 23, 2011, 12:08:
 
quote:
Originally posted by dragonman97:
P.S. As to Ubuntu, I'll assume that's another "Gnome blindly follows Apple without thinking" move

Nah, more a "Shuttleworth Goes His Own Way (again)" move.

He's basically merged the changes from the Netbook Remix into the main product, and a compromise that made sense to save a few pixels on tiny netbook screens has been inflicted on those of us with huge desktop screens.

User reaction has been mixed, some like it, others loath it. The word is the proper Gnome interface will be available as an option in a future release.
 
Posted by CommanderShroom (Member # 2097) on July 23, 2011, 14:41:
 
For a little while I have been using Lubuntu, but I got tired of dealing with certain quirks. So I finally went back to Debian for my primary Netbook with Lubuntu as the desktop manager. Other than some aggravations with the mic input for my sound card, I am quite I made the switch.
 
Posted by The Famous Druid (Member # 1769) on July 23, 2011, 14:54:
 
quote:
Originally posted by CommanderShroom:
For a little while I have been using Lubuntu, but I got tired of dealing with certain quirks. So I finally went back to Debian for my primary Netbook with Lubuntu as the desktop manager. Other than some aggravations with the mic input for my sound card, I am quite I made the switch.

I switched from Debian to Ubuntu years ago, because at the time Ubuntu worked with my new laptop's wireless network card and Debian didn't.

That probably won't be a problem any more, and trying out the latest Debian is fairly high on my rainy-weekend todo list.

Ubuntu has always had a reputation for going its own way (sometimes with good reason, sometimes not) but the latest release has strayed a little too far from the path of Linux Righteousness for my liking.
 
Posted by CommanderShroom (Member # 2097) on July 24, 2011, 05:00:
 
Oops, I just saw what I wrote. I meant I am on Debian, using LXDE, not Lubuntu. Though I have a tower that uses Lubuntu, but mainly I use that system for XBMC stuff, so I don't think it entirely counts.

But I am just happier with the more limited sets within Debian. Ubuntu and its forks are getting a bit bloated, especially since I use LibreOffice and a web browser, and have very little need for the other gadgets that get packaged. Then add to the fact that NFS never worked without a lot of tweaking in Ubuntu, the decision was easy to make.

I am not sure if I will consider the update to Lion yet either. Not even sure if my Mini could run it, but on top of it, I am just not enough of a zealot to worry about having the latest and greatest OS X version.
 
Posted by dragonman97 (Member # 780) on July 24, 2011, 16:35:
 
So I got around to trying out Lion today.

Two quick observations:
1. The native/default scrolling utterly stinks, but is *trivial* to revert, /and/ as I learned from ars (scroll ~2/5 down) while at the Apple store, it's also easy to turn scroll bars back on. Furthermore, an application has to choose to turn them off, so Firefox is still scroll bar enabled. [Big Grin]

2. THERE ARE TOO MANY GESTURES!
"Mission Control" might be nice, and the App Launcher pointless, but I'll never figure out how to launch them, as there are more gestures than I have fingers. (See the ars link above - there are three pages of them featured below the Scrollbar screenshot.) I think the next feature is to build a shadow puppet app into the OS, as that would at least be more enjoyable than figuring out some bollocks with 'pinch 3 fingers inward to do thing foo.'

Otherwise, I don't think it's that different -- it's just more incremental improvements.

I do wonder if Apple will stick with their 'natural' scrolling nonsense, or revert it in 10.7.1 (or .2). The fact that it requires a demo screen (per ars) tells me that they badly broke their 'ease of use' model. That scrolling model makes sense on a touch screen where you're interacting with the canvas, but not on a trackpad that's divorced from the content. In the latter case, it's a matter of using UI that everyone's been using for the last ~15+ years. I suspect many people who just walk up to a Mac running Lion will be very confused. D'oh!
 
Posted by GrumpySteen (Member # 170) on July 24, 2011, 18:01:
 
dragonman97 wrote:
I think the next feature is to build a shadow puppet app into the OS

I could see this...

Make a RABBIT to go FASTER
Make a TURTLE to go SLOWER
Make a BEAR to turn on HIBERNATE mode
Make a HONEY BADGER to KILL a process
 
Posted by The Famous Druid (Member # 1769) on July 24, 2011, 18:35:
 
I'm glad to hear it's easy to turn the scroll bars back on, that would have been a deal-breaker for me.

Re: 'Natural Scrolling' - I always thought the way scrolling worked on wheelie mice was bass-ackward, so I'm with Apple on this one, although it may take some time to re-program my fingers.

/me adds 'Apple Store' to this weekends to-do list.
 
Posted by Callipygous (Member # 2071) on July 25, 2011, 01:23:
 
Well I couldn't resist any longer, so I jumped this weekend. Two word review. Awe. Some.

It took about half a day to create a new Spotlight index, and then maybe another day or so to settle into its boots, but now it does subjectively seem rather nippier, and needs no extra memory. There have been remarkably few glitches, and it feels very stable indeed for a .0 release (though I know of someone who has had a kernel panic).

The changes may well be mainly incremental, but there are enough to make this release feel like the biggest jump since the early days of OS X, and though nobody will like all of them, the controversial ones are all reversible, and just about everyone will find this to be a great improvement on its predecessor. I find myself in agreement with just about everything in Andy Ihnatko's review linked to by Snaggy on the GC blog

So if you can, just go for it!
 
Posted by Danapoppa (Member # 1555) on July 28, 2011, 15:24:
 
My DSL connection is so bad that I hesitate to download a new OS (though I'll probably get around to it eventually). Going to an Apple Store and using their WiFi is also out of the question, unless Apple really wants to pay my Bullet Train fare. [Razz] I really wouldn't mind if Apple decided to start selling boxed copies to those who want them.

I'm not sure if I like what I've seen of the new UI so far. Why is Apple so averse to using color these days? [Confused]
 
Posted by littlefish (Member # 966) on August 03, 2011, 06:00:
 
I've just upgraded, and I'm not sure if I like it. I was a heavy expose user, with hot corner activation. Mission control crashes on my machine with hot corners. I am surprised with how easy scrolling the "natural" way is. I thought it would make me angry, but so far it hasn't. Full screen safari is quite nice too.

If I notice anything else worthy of comment, I'll be back!
 
Posted by GrumpySteen (Member # 170) on August 03, 2011, 10:14:
 
You know what? I totally messed up my explanation and I'm too lazy to fix it, so ignore this [Smile]
 
Posted by Serenak (Member # 2950) on August 06, 2011, 23:33:
 
I have been using it for about a week now - put it on the personal Macbook but didn't get much chance to really look at it for the first few days.

The iOS style "natural" scrolling is too contrary for this long time computer user... because it is going the "wrong way" if I didn't have 20+ years of "because this is how it is" perhaps I wouldn't care - I could learn to live with it if I had to but turned it off after half an hour.

Scroll Bars - I can't make my mind up, tried them on, off and sort of interactive... guess I will settle for one in the end, main thing I miss when they are off is "where am I in the document/webpage"

Mission Control seems good, I used to use the Exposé show desktop a lot, but nothing else, I tried to like Spaces but just never made it work naturally for me so left it - the new Mission Control I suspect may actually make Virtual Desktops (aka Spaces) a usable feature for me. I set it to my old Exposé hot corner and it works fine - Sorry Littlefish!

Launchpad - well if you have about one screen of main Apps then I guess this just might work...
but if like me you have hundreds then this thing is nearly useless even with the Launchpad Control

Gestures - way too many (or perhaps not enough???)... but most of them don't work on my White Core2Duo MacBook - everything can be worked another way... if you don't like gestures forget about them.

Everything seems to be working so far... I lost a couple of REALLY old toys (my desktop Eyeballs finally gave up the ghost - they were from 10.2 or before so I guess it had to happen) and a very old version of ASM (Application Switcher Menu) which has been running since 10.2 too, but to be honest I hardly noticed was there any more. But my Skype 2.8 is holding up and everything else I use on this personal machine has either been updated or seems to be holding up...

Of course I have no doubt I will find somethings that play up (and I can't even consider putting the Lion near a work Mac) but so far very pleased with the whole experience

Oh and for those who like me don't feel safe without a bootable get out of jail card... Lion Disk Maker which made me a USB Key from a 4GB stick when all previous attempts to do so using Disk Utility failed...

Overall mark me down as one impressed and happy camper.
 
Posted by garlicguy (Member # 3166) on August 07, 2011, 04:46:
 
Serenak!

Dang it! I wish you hadn't come out so strongly in favor of Lion.

Trusting your judgement in such matters means I'm going to have to move the upgrade from its current holding pattern to the "to do" list.

Thanks and good to see you here again. It's been awhile.

[thumbsup]

gg
 
Posted by Snaggy (Member # 123) on August 07, 2011, 06:52:
 
I've been getting the odd weird error, extended beachballs, and annoying folder behavior over the past few weeks.

Safari is faster though.
 
Posted by DoctorWho (Member # 392) on August 07, 2011, 09:39:
 
I can't see myself upgrading just yet. I am quite happy with Snow Leopard right now. Also I don't own a track pad or magic mouse so I would have to plunk down another $70 for that to take advantage of the gestures {which apparently is receiving mixed reviews}. I will probably wait until it's up to 10.7.2 before I break down and get it.
 
Posted by dragonman97 (Member # 780) on August 16, 2011, 11:49:
 
And here's 10.7.1:
http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2011/08/apple-releases-first-lion-update-to-fix-system-hangs-flaky-wifi.ars
 
Posted by littlefish (Member # 966) on August 18, 2011, 08:22:
 
10.7.1 doesn't fix my mission control problem. There is something I have installed in my home directory screwing it up (works OK in a guest account). I haven't yet had the time or sufficient motivation to remove all the files in ~ one by one to find the conflict and nuke it.

Discussion thread here.
 
Posted by Callipygous (Member # 2071) on August 21, 2011, 17:21:
 
In case anyone here has not heard, DropBox has had an update that fixes Lion issues. It's worth getting the update manually if it hasn't updated automatically for you yet.
 


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