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Posted by TheMoMan (Member # 1659) on March 18, 2011, 10:48:
____ I am sure most of you have seen the video about a young man finally taking on a School yard bully.

____ While most of the comments I have read think the problem is over, I fear that it is not.

____ What say yea??
Posted by dragonman97 (Member # 780) on March 18, 2011, 12:42:
Posted by TheMoMan (Member # 1659) on March 18, 2011, 23:38:
____ More fuel for the fire.
Posted by The Famous Druid (Member # 1769) on March 19, 2011, 01:04:
Just about everyone who was ever bullied in school cheered for the kid who struck back so effectively.

When I was in school my parents told me "don't fight back, it only encourages them" - I tried that for a while, it didn't work.

So then I tried the opposite tactic, ALWAYS stand up to the bully, even when it was clear I was going to get beaten. And I did get beaten, sometimes, but even in defeat, I did my best to make sure the other guy wouldn't come looking for me again. Things got worse before they got better, but they did get better.

Bullies are, basically, cowards. Picking on the dumb/fat/funny-looking/foreign/gay/geeky/whatever kid is no fun if you lose a tooth in the process, and the bully in the video came damn close to something far worse than that.

So yeah, I think the kid in the video's days as school punching-bag are over - the bullies will look for an easier target.

There's another issue that the media seems to be skipping over though, and that's how the video got made in the first place. Looks to me like the bully was putting on a show for the camera, probably with the intention of posting the result on YouTube or something similar. In this case it backfired badly, but the trend towards home-made violence-porn is worrying.
Posted by Ashitaka (Member # 4924) on March 19, 2011, 03:39:
no, I havn't, so i googled it and got two candidates.

Are you talking about the kid who fought back and knocked the bully out with on punch or the kid who fought back and was picked up and dropped on his head al à WWF?
Posted by The Famous Druid (Member # 1769) on March 19, 2011, 07:23:
Originally posted by Ashitaka:
the kid who fought back and was picked up and dropped on his head al à WWF?

Well, it was the bully who got picked up and body slammed, but yes, that's the video.

btw - to anyone who's thinking of emulating the feat - that bully was one dice roll away from a lifetime in a wheelchair. DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME.
Posted by Xanthine (Member # 736) on March 19, 2011, 08:46:
The only tactic I've ever had any luck with against a bully is to not let them see they've scored a hit. Eventually, after some escalation, they lost interest. Also, as I grew up, not only did something about me change such that I rarely get targeted but I've found ways to just end it. Politely. Without physical violence or displays of emotion because I'm much, much scarier when I have my self-control engaged. It does help that the only complete fools target me - the smarter bullies look for easier prey.

Honestly, I don't think there's any anti-bully tactic that won't lead to short-term escalation in the attacks. Ignore/defy it and they push to get a rise. Defend yourself and they seek a way past that. Strike back and they retaliate.
Posted by dragonman97 (Member # 780) on March 19, 2011, 10:33:
Honestly, I don't think there's any anti-bully tactic that won't lead to short-term escalation in the attacks.

The dreamer in me wishes there was a societal fix to this. Obama has spoken out about bullying lately, and that in and of itself tells me that it's still a problem. It's not the same breed of bullying as in the video, but many months ago, a guy jumped off the GWB after being mocked/outed online, and that just says that big problems exist w.r.t. respect of others. To channel MMKK a bit, can't we all just get along?

OTOH, I do think there's more acceptance of geeks in the world these days. I have no idea what it's like in el-hi these days, but given how much everyday folks fawn over the latest gadget, we can't be that 'different' these days. Hopefully this younger generation's geeks will have an easier time of things than earlier generations. (A geek can dream, right?)
Posted by MacManKrisK (Member # 955) on March 19, 2011, 12:01:
For the record, I have never said "can't we just all get along?" I just did a forum-wide search to make sure, too!

I /did/ however, find a very old post of mine about a very different topic that also happens to brush on the fundamental problems that lead to bullying. Specifically:
Furthermore, I would like to suggest that people that do bad things do them because they feel devalued. People who are told they are "bad people" will continue to do bad things for the thrill or excitement of doing them. If their life has no value, then why should they care about the consequences of their actions? Furthermore, doing bad things allows the person to attain value, even if it is a negative value. To a person who feels valueless, a negative value is better than none at all.
If we can give people self-worth we will stop bullying.
Posted by dragonman97 (Member # 780) on March 19, 2011, 15:24:
MMKK: Somehow I expected that. I certainly wasn't quoting you verbatim, but IMHO, it follows the general vibe you exude. I'm sure you've expressed a somewhat similar sentiment at some point in the past. [Smile]
Posted by GrumpySteen (Member # 170) on March 19, 2011, 18:32:
I feel a lot of sympathy for Casey (the fat kid) in the video. I was a fat kid in grade school too, not to mention being quiet and withdrawn, and I was unsurprisingly picked on for it. The teasing and bullying continued even after I started fighting back and only came to and end after I nearly choked one kid named Rustin to death in front of half the school. Nobody really wanted to mess with me after that and the rest of my school years passed in relative peace.

As for the video, none of us really know the history behind it. Quotes in various articles indicate that the smaller kid had bullied Casey repeatedly before he finally snapped, which implies that ignoring the bully was not working. Maybe there was another answer, but does anyone think that the smaller kid will ever try to bully Casey one again?

As much as we hate to admit it, sometimes violence is the only response that works. When people are afraid you'll seriously injure or kill them, they're a lot less likely to provoke you for the "fun" of it. Maybe someday we, as a species, will get to the point where that's not true, but we aren't there yet.

Hopefully Casey made an impression and his four days of expulsion will have bought him a few years of being left alone.
Posted by TheMoMan (Member # 1659) on March 19, 2011, 20:43:
____ Okay, more back story. I was the class runt, most of the girls were bigger than me. 28/29 inch waist, 14 inch neck. I went in the USN at 117 pounds. The supply chief that issued uniforms gave me stuff that looked like it fit giants. Three years later those uniforms were tight. I had filled out over 83 pounds, I had to watch my weight to stay a Search & Rescue Corpsman.

____ I came across my worst tormentor, from school, he did not even recognize me, but I knew him. It took a lot of effort to not mess with him, but I mean what can you really do to a "USED CAR SALESMAN". Setting there in loud clothes in a dinghy sales lot and office, trying to hawk used cars.
Posted by Stereo (Member # 748) on March 20, 2011, 00:12:
Sorry I don't have the link at hand, but there seems to be one way to end bullying... Did you get the story of that man who turned both his children to the police when he caught them bullying? Sold his 17 yo. son's car, and his 15 yo daughter's horse? The kids were said to be remorseful - perhaps just from the consequences of being caught, but I am quite sure they won't bully anymore: they know that "I'm going to tell your dad" *will* have consequences.

(If the judge is any smart, he'll give the kids a community work sentence with a conditional pardon after a few years of good behaviour.)
Posted by The Famous Druid (Member # 1769) on March 20, 2011, 04:42:
Originally posted by Stereo:
Sorry I don't have the link at hand,

Posted by Aditu (Member # 2340) on March 21, 2011, 05:54:
I think bullying is on the rise. It is easy to bully someone online anonymously. Also I think schools don't back students being bullied up as they need to for all the talk. I have more than one co-worker who has talked to schools about bullying of their kids and got no where. Now they are having to take it up the line.

I do think the fact parents wouldn't tolerate it in the past was a factor too. I was bullied by Scott McKay, when I lived in Halifax. My dad went to talk to his dad. Not only did he get in trouble, his dad's solution was that he was appointed my protector the way to and from school for the rest of the year. We never became friends, but a truce occured over the months.
Posted by The Famous Druid (Member # 1769) on March 21, 2011, 07:49:
Originally posted by Aditu:
Not only did he get in trouble, his dad's solution was that he was appointed my protector the way to and from school for the rest of the year.

I like that idea, it appeals to my sense of justice.

Did he ever have to follow through on his bodyguard role? Taking a beating from another bully while protecting you would have been a valuable lesson in life.

quoth TheMoMan:
I came across my worst tormentor, from school... ...a "USED CAR SALESMAN"

Why am I not surprised that the school bully became a car salesman?
Posted by Callipygous (Member # 2071) on March 21, 2011, 22:18:
What makes the problem so hard to crack is that the victim knows that he invites the bullying. A bully has a low self esteem radar that quickly homes in on this, and so long as you have this aura, you will invite bullying. I was picked on in every school I attended. The other thing is that it is a group activity, though of course there are ring leaders. It's a primitive pecking order behaviour, and constantly picking on the ones at the bottom keeps the hierarchy stable. I stopped being bullied when I just ceased to care what the rest of my school thought of me, and instead my feelings about my school fellows ranged from complete indifference through cold hatred to complete contempt, and I did not try to hide it. Not a particularly healthy emotional state to be in, but I guess it meant I'd stepped outside the social hierarchy, so people did leave me alone. Eventually by the time I was about to leave the school, I gained a grudging respect from a few of them too.

That YouTube video was how we were told bullies had to be dealt with at school, by standing up to them, so I guess in must appeal to the nostalgia for older simpler times, but it didn't work like that for most of us then, the bullies are usually bigger and stronger than you and there were more of them. What I learned was that if you don't want to go with the current, don't fight it because you'll drown. Just swim to the side, and let the rest of them pass you by.
Posted by TheMoMan (Member # 1659) on March 21, 2011, 22:51:
____ Going "Berserk" will usually get you a lot of respect, once or twice and they leave you alone.
Posted by Callipygous (Member # 2071) on March 22, 2011, 10:14:
Originally posted by TheMoMan:
____ Going "Berserk" will usually get you a lot of respect, once or twice and they leave you alone.

sadly didn't work for me. I was crap at fighting in first place, and if I got angry, I became worse, because I simply became tenser and tenser until I became a comic, red faced, apoplectic, eyeball popping, twitching fool. This of course made teasing me an even more diverting amusement, so I just had to learn to curb my temper pretty quickly.
Posted by Aditu (Member # 2340) on March 23, 2011, 07:38:
Druid, yes he did have to step in when someone threatened to wash my face with snow. A big form of bullying in our neck of Canada. He didn't have to take one for the team as most people were intimidated by him.

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