This is topic If America were Iraq, What would it be Like? in forum Your News! at The Geek Culture Forums.


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Posted by Cap'n Vic (Member # 1477) on September 27, 2004, 10:59:
 
By Juan Cole a Professor of History at the University of Michigan

Wednesday, September 22, 2004

President Bush said Tuesday that the Iraqis are refuting the pessimists and implied that things are improving in that country.

What would America look like if it were in Iraq's current situation? The population of the US is over 11 times that of Iraq, so a lot of statistics would have to be multiplied by that number.

Thus, violence killed 300 Iraqis last week, the equivalent proportionately of 3,300 Americans. What if 3,300 Americans had died in car bombings, grenade and rocket attacks, machine gun spray, and aerial bombardment in the last week? That is a number greater than the deaths on September 11, and if America were Iraq, it would be an ongoing, weekly or monthly toll.

And what if those deaths occurred all over the country, including in the capital of Washington, DC, but mainly above the Mason Dixon line, in Boston, Minneapolis, Salt Lake City, and San Francisco?

What if the grounds of the White House and the government buildings near the Mall were constantly taking mortar fire? What if almost nobody in the State Department at Foggy Bottom, the White House, or the Pentagon dared venture out of their buildings, and considered it dangerous to go over to Crystal City or Alexandria?

What if all the reporters for all the major television and print media were trapped in five-star hotels in Washington, DC and New York, unable to move more than a few blocks safely, and dependent on stringers to know what was happening in Oklahoma City and St. Louis? What if the only time they ventured into the Midwest was if they could be embedded in Army or National Guard units?

There are estimated to be some 25,000 guerrillas in Iraq engaged in concerted acts of violence. What if there were private armies totalling 275,000 men, armed with machine guns, assault rifles (legal again!), rocket-propelled grenades, and mortar launchers, hiding out in dangerous urban areas of cities all over the country? What if they completely controlled Seattle, Portland, San Francisco, Salt Lake City, Las Vegas, Denver and Omaha, such that local police and Federal troops could not go into those cities?

What if, during the past year, the Secretary of State (Aqilah Hashemi), the President (Izzedine Salim), and the Attorney General (Muhammad Baqir al-Hakim) had all been assassinated?

What if all the cities in the US were wracked by a crime wave, with thousands of murders, kidnappings, burglaries, and carjackings in every major city every year?

What if the Air Force routinely (I mean daily or weekly) bombed Billings, Montana, Flint, Michigan, Watts in Los Angeles, Philadelphia, Anacostia in Washington, DC, and other urban areas, attempting to target "safe houses" of "criminal gangs", but inevitably killing a lot of children and little old ladies?

What if, from time to time, the US Army besieged Virginia Beach, killing hundreds of armed members of the Christian Soldiers? What if entire platoons of the Christian Soldiers militia holed up in Arlington National Cemetery, and were bombarded by US Air Force warplanes daily, destroying thousands of graves and even pulverizing the Vietnam Memorial over on the Mall? What if the National Council of Churches had to call for a popular march of thousands of believers to converge on the National Cathedral to stop the US Army from demolishing it to get at a rogue band of the Timothy McVeigh Memorial Brigades?

What if there were virtually no commercial air traffic in the country? What if many roads were highly dangerous, especially Interstate 95 from Richmond to Washington, DC, and I-95 and I-91 up to Boston? If you got on I-95 anywhere along that over 500-mile stretch, you would risk being carjacked, kidnapped, or having your car sprayed with machine gun fire.

What if no one had electricity for much more than 10 hours a day, and often less? What if it went off at unpredictable times, causing factories to grind to a halt and air conditioning to fail in the middle of the summer in Houston and Miami? What if the Alaska pipeline were bombed and disabled at least monthly? What if unemployment hovered around 40%?

What if veterans of militia actions at Ruby Ridge and the Oklahoma City bombing were brought in to run the government on the theory that you need a tough guy in these times of crisis?

What if municipal elections were cancelled and cliques close to the new "president" quietly installed in the statehouses as "governors?" What if several of these governors (especially of Montana and Wyoming) were assassinated soon after taking office or resigned when their children were taken hostage by guerrillas?

What if the leader of the European Union maintained that the citizens of the United States are, under these conditions, refuting pessimism and that freedom and democracy are just around the corner?
 
Posted by littlefish (Member # 966) on September 27, 2004, 11:52:
 
quote:
Thus, violence killed 300 Iraqis last week, the equivalent proportionately of 3,300 Americans. What if 3,300 Americans had died in car bombings, grenade and rocket attacks, machine gun spray, and aerial bombardment in the last week? That is a number greater than the deaths on September 11, and if America were Iraq, it would be an ongoing, weekly or monthly toll.

That made me wonder, as it didn't seem too high, so I googled, and:
According to the FBI, you are roughly 10 times more likely to get murdered in Iraq than the states.


(edited twice beacuase my mental arithmetic sucks...)
 
Posted by Cap'n Vic (Member # 1477) on September 27, 2004, 12:00:
 
I think he is illustrating that war deaths would be 3,300.

There of course would be death/violence in the country not attributed to the war.

But there is no denying that Americans seem to like killing, home and abroad. [ohwell]
 
Posted by ooby (Member # 2603) on September 28, 2004, 09:16:
 
quote:
Originally posted by Cap'n Vic:
What if the Air Force routinely (I mean daily or weekly) bombed Billings, Montana, Flint, Michigan, Watts in Los Angeles, Philadelphia, Anacostia in Washington, DC, and other urban areas, attempting to target "safe houses" of "criminal gangs", but inevitably killing a lot of children and little old ladies?

Funny he should mention Philadelphia, the only city in the US bombed by its own government. http://www.cnn.com/US/9606/24/move.vertict/
 
Posted by MTB Babe (Member # 2297) on September 28, 2004, 19:38:
 
I love the fact that the US has a list of countries that it considers to be terrorist states (Iraq, Iran, Syria, Cuba, Sudan, Libya and North Korea), when it itself qualifies as one.
 
Posted by Danapoppa (Member # 1555) on September 29, 2004, 09:32:
 
For some time now it's seemed strange to me that the US has taken such a holier-than-thou stance about WMD (which weren't there after all), when the US not only has a huge nuclear arsenal, but remains to this day the only country that's ever dropped The Bomb in anger.

History is written by the victors, and terrorism defined by those with the power to wreak far more than they suffer. No surprises there.
 
Posted by Cap'n Vic (Member # 1477) on September 29, 2004, 09:49:
 
Don't forget about their massive stock piles of Chem and Bio weapons.
 
Posted by Mac D (Member # 2926) on September 29, 2004, 10:01:
 
I remember reading a quote some time ago every one can interpret it they want but it seems to make some sence with this conversation.
quote:
Peace through superior fire power
I don't know who originaly said it. or where I saw it but for some reason I remembered it.
 
Posted by Cap'n Vic (Member # 1477) on September 29, 2004, 10:17:
 
This is kinda funny.

Somewhat safe for work; has a bad word on a tshirt.
 
Posted by csk (Member # 1941) on September 29, 2004, 13:30:
 
quote:
Originally posted by Cap'n Vic:
This is kinda funny.

All of a sudden, I feel my interest in American politics rising.

Actually, that was something else. My bad [Wink]
 


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