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Posted by boo (Member # 5991) on January 12, 2007, 03:58:
 
relationship with a woman, even if it's imperfect and she sometimes drives you crazy - or have your peace and be alone?

I came across this concept elsewhere and wondered what the geek men thought.
 
Posted by uilleann (Member # 1297) on January 12, 2007, 04:36:
 
I think that is a lose/lose question ...
 
Posted by Stibbons (Member # 2515) on January 12, 2007, 05:02:
 
Kinda the former. I don't have a problem with the lady occasionally driving me crazy [Smile]
 
Posted by Callipygous (Member # 2071) on January 12, 2007, 05:13:
 
The sting comes in the tail, can you live alone and be at peace? Most of us need someone to love, and a cat is not really quite enough. I don't know why my marriage has lasted 24 years, as I am not easy to live with and neither is my wife, and I can be a complete arsehole at times. We do often drive each other crazy. But we also do still make each other laugh and find each other exciting and unpredictable, and despite knowing the fscked up side of each others character, we still care about each other. Maybe that has seen us through the tough times thus far, though of course the future has no guarantees. Anyway she's the most wonderful woman and I don't deserve her, but am so so lucky that she loves me too.
 
Posted by nerdwithnofriends (Member # 3773) on January 12, 2007, 06:07:
 
I'd like to be all dark and mysterious and say I'd rather be alone. However, if I were in a relationship, I would want my SO to drive me crazy every once in a while; I enjoy a playful fight every now and again (keyword here being 'playful').

'Sides, there's no sex like make-up sex [Smile]
 
Posted by Black Widow (Member # 3046) on January 12, 2007, 07:23:
 
quote:
Originally posted by nerdwithnofriends:
'Sides, there's no sex like make-up sex [Smile]

Amen. [blush]
 
Posted by Ugh, MightyClub (Member # 3112) on January 12, 2007, 09:22:
 
quote:
Originally posted by Black Widow:
quote:
Originally posted by nerdwithnofriends:
'Sides, there's no sex like make-up sex [Smile]

Amen. [blush]
BW, you are the most insensitive clod I've yet seen on this board!!

...

I'm sorry, that was very insensitive of me.

There, we made up. Can we have sex now? [Wink] [evil]
 
Posted by business attire (Member # 6102) on January 12, 2007, 10:03:
 
quote:
Originally posted by nerdwithnofriends:
I'd like to be all dark and mysterious and say I'd rather be alone. However, if I were in a relationship, I would want my SO to drive me crazy every once in a while; I enjoy a playful fight every now and again (keyword here being 'playful').

'Sides, there's no sex like make-up sex [Smile]

marry me.
I'll do a great job of driving you crazy. promise.
 
Posted by Steen (Member # 170) on January 12, 2007, 11:17:
 
There's definitely something to be said for difficult women. They may drive you crazy, but they also keep life interesting. For me, at least, that's far more desirable than a life that is all peaceful and quiet, not to mention lonely.

... as long as they keep the craziness down to a level that doesn't involve criminal charges being filed, that is. [Roll Eyes]
 
Posted by garlicguy (Member # 3166) on January 12, 2007, 11:24:
 
After 37 years of being married to the same woman, I would like to agree with Calli's post above.

I think that men *need* for their woman to be mysterious thus interesting thus sometimes difficult.
 
Posted by Stibbons (Member # 2515) on January 12, 2007, 11:56:
 
quote:
Originally posted by business attire:
quote:
Originally posted by nerdwithnofriends:
I'd like to be all dark and mysterious and say I'd rather be alone. However, if I were in a relationship, I would want my SO to drive me crazy every once in a while; I enjoy a playful fight every now and again (keyword here being 'playful').

'Sides, there's no sex like make-up sex [Smile]

marry me.
I'll do a great job of driving you crazy. promise.

I notice there was no comment on the quality of your make-up sex... [Razz]
 
Posted by stevenback7 (Member # 5114) on January 12, 2007, 12:15:
 
I myself don't mind being alone, i have so much things to do that a relationship isn't in my scedule. And since i'm a geek i'm never truelly alone because there is always a chat room one click away. But if i was in a relationship i would want to be in one where the woman does drive me crazy (in a good way).

Stibbons ____ its sex not a science experiment.
 
Posted by Ugh, MightyClub (Member # 3112) on January 12, 2007, 13:16:
 
quote:
Originally posted by stevenback7:

Stibbons ____ its sex not a science experiment.

Hey, if she wants to offer up evidence, who are we to complain?
/me ducks!
 
Posted by nerdwithnofriends (Member # 3773) on January 12, 2007, 13:45:
 
quote:
Originally posted by business attire:
quote:
Originally posted by nerdwithnofriends:
I'd like to be all dark and mysterious and say I'd rather be alone. However, if I were in a relationship, I would want my SO to drive me crazy every once in a while; I enjoy a playful fight every now and again (keyword here being 'playful').

'Sides, there's no sex like make-up sex [Smile]

marry me.
I'll do a great job of driving you crazy. promise.

Sure thang. Honeymoon in Fiji, methinks... [Razz]
 
Posted by business attire (Member # 6102) on January 12, 2007, 14:13:
 
quote:
Originally posted by Stibbons:
quote:
Originally posted by business attire:
marry me.
I'll do a great job of driving you crazy. promise.

I notice there was no comment on the quality of your make-up sex... [Razz]
Why should make-up sex be different than any other sex? ALL of my sex is amazing. [Razz]

quote:
Originally posted by nerdwithnofriends:
Sure thang. Honeymoon in Fiji, methinks...

YUSS! So, are we going to live in NC or Montana? I vote NEITHER.
 
Posted by spungo (Member # 1089) on January 12, 2007, 14:18:
 
quote:
Originally posted by nerdwithnofriends:
'Sides, there's no sex like make-up sex [Smile]

I tried make-up sex once... pain in the ass getting the lipstick out of yer poo-hole afterwards. [Wink]
 
Posted by freja42 (Member # 6685) on January 15, 2007, 05:27:
 
quote:
Originally posted by boo:
relationship with a woman, even if it's imperfect and she sometimes drives you crazy - or have your peace and be alone?

I came across this concept elsewhere and wondered what the geek men thought.

OK, I'm a woman but I'll take the question the other way: Can I be in a relationship with a guy even if it's imperfect and he sometimes drives me crazy or have my peace and be alone?

Well, nobody is perfect and there is no such thing as a relationship with any other human that is perfectly happy.
One has to compromise with friends aswell as lovers and family. It's all about WHAT we compromise about and HOW MUCH.

Trust me, I've been single for most of my life and I'm very picky. I've made some mistakes when it comes to men but now I know better. I don't go out with just anybody because it's not worth it.

I like being single because it gives me a lot of freedom and I don't need to be in a relationship just to be happy.
On the other hand, I think humans are made for a social "pack" life. We're not made to live alone and personally, I have no intention of living alone just for the sake of it. [Smile]
 
Posted by catgoddess (Member # 6838) on January 15, 2007, 09:20:
 
quote:
Originally posted by spungo:
quote:
Originally posted by nerdwithnofriends:
'Sides, there's no sex like make-up sex [Smile]

I tried make-up sex once... pain in the ass getting the lipstick out of yer poo-hole afterwards. [Wink]
Sweetie... you're not suppose to shove the lipstick tube up your poo-hole. I know it appears to be a manageable size, but next time, leave the cap on. Whatever you do, don't ever shove rice pudding up there.

My two cents...

Make-up sex is fueled, deep down, by anger, frustration, and/or the turn-on of arguing. All of which are less than desirable in my eyes. However, I think that make-up sex, as long as it is part of an otherwise healthy sex life, is nothing I would worry about.

I've been in far more relationships than I'll admit to [Smile] , but I will share this... most men like drama because they've come to expect it. They have absolutely no clue what to do with a woman who is relatively drama-free. No clue. None. Nada.

As a woman who is less mysterious, more open; less drama-filled, more communicative; less needy, more independent; less flighty, more stable... I can tell you from personal experience that men are very attracted to the "more" qualities for only so long. In time, most of them try to change me into the "less" column by constantly telling me, "You're so different; I'm not used to it." "I have no idea how to react to you." etc, etc.

I've never screamed, "If you don't know, I'm not going to tell you." to any man I've ever known, let alone dated. I'm not here to provide mystery; our own existence provides enough mystery on its own.

Quite frankly, I'm here to enjoy life the best that I can and to share that with people who love me just as I am. I'd rather be alone (and that is not lonely, btw) than to ever stay in a relationship that thrives on anything other than love, understanding, acceptance, trust, and stability. I've been in more than enough of the other kind to know they just don't work for me.
 
Posted by spungo (Member # 1089) on January 15, 2007, 19:02:
 
quote:
Originally posted by catgoddess:
quote:
Originally posted by spungo:
quote:
Originally posted by nerdwithnofriends:
'Sides, there's no sex like make-up sex [Smile]

I tried make-up sex once... pain in the ass getting the lipstick out of yer poo-hole afterwards. [Wink]
...Whatever you do, don't ever shove rice pudding up there.


Interesting... I've had custard in my underpants before, but rice pudding?
 
Posted by catgoddess (Member # 6838) on January 15, 2007, 19:15:
 
we wont even discuss the chocolate frosting...
 
Posted by csk (Member # 1941) on January 16, 2007, 00:47:
 
quote:
Originally posted by catgoddess:
As a woman who is less mysterious, more open; less drama-filled, more communicative; less needy, more independent; less flighty, more stable... I can tell you from personal experience that men are very attracted to the "more" qualities for only so long. In time, most of them try to change me into the "less" column by constantly telling me, "You're so different; I'm not used to it." "I have no idea how to react to you." etc, etc.

I've never screamed, "If you don't know, I'm not going to tell you." to any man I've ever known, let alone dated. I'm not here to provide mystery; our own existence provides enough mystery on its own.

Firstly, I'm currently seeing someone who is similarly different to you (not a drama queen etc), and yes the contrast to my past experience is large. However, the guy's reactions, or more accurately, not being sure how to react to you is possibly not as much aimed at changing you as you think. In my experience, it's to do with a guy working out how to react to "volatile" females, getting somewhat used to that, and then the whole world changes when someone "stable" comes along (ie, you).

So my advice would be, don't write the guy(s) off too soon, give them time to get used to the comparatively mellow relational style that works with your personality.
 
Posted by Steen (Member # 170) on January 16, 2007, 09:16:
 
csk wrote:
So my advice would be, don't write the guy(s) off too soon, give them time to get used to the comparatively mellow relational style that works with your personality.

Or learn to enjoy teasing and verbally abusing them for hours on end...
 
Posted by dragonman97 (Member # 780) on January 16, 2007, 09:24:
 
Hmm...I sort of missed this thread by chance, only catching the amusing threadjacking.

To answer the original question: There's something to be said for a delicious bit of quiet. ;P That's not to say it doesn't have some decided downsides...but not having changed the situation for awhile, I can't thoroughly complain. [Razz]

I think for the former case, it would really depend on how crazy or aggravating things got. Not a lot gets to me, but I certainly don't enjoy being nagged, etc. I really can't see staying in a relationship where both parties are basically tired of each other, or constantly giving each other grief.

But...I'm probably the last person around to give advice. [Wink] [Except maybe AstroJedi or uilleann (sorry mate, but I'm sure you'd agree!).]
 
Posted by shriver (Member # 3556) on January 16, 2007, 12:33:
 
I've never had the experience of a real relationship before. I do have a few close female friends that provide most of the female input in my life. I've done alright so far being 'alone,' although, I can't say I don't want a more intimate relationship at times.
 
Posted by catgoddess (Member # 6838) on January 16, 2007, 19:20:
 
quote:
Originally posted by csk:
However, the guy's reactions, or more accurately, not being sure how to react to you is possibly not as much aimed at changing you as you think. In my experience, it's to do with a guy working out how to react to "volatile" females, getting somewhat used to that, and then the whole world changes when someone "stable" comes along (ie, you).

Every guy gets a shot to adjust to what he claims to want in a relationship. That adjustment period varies greatly depending on the guy and the level of promise the relationship appears to have.

I was referring (although, not as clearly as I had hoped) to the vast majority of guys who just complain about the differences and how difficult it is to adjust instead of adjusting. Some even mistake adjusting to having to change some aspect of their personalities... who they are, if you will. This is not only absurd, it's also incorrect. It's just adjusting a behavior that, quite frankly, isn't a positive thing anyway.

quote:
Originally posted by csk:
So my advice would be, don't write the guy(s) off too soon, give them time to get used to the comparatively mellow relational style that works with your personality.

I don't write anyone off too soon. If anything, I keep them around too long. I try to ditch the losers with great speed, but some of them are sneaky.

quote:
Originally posted by Steen:
Or learn to enjoy teasing and verbally abusing them for hours on end...

You're a freak, Lucy. You like it when Ricky cooks juicy chicken breasts and you know it! So hush.
 
Posted by fs (Member # 1181) on January 17, 2007, 16:22:
 
I really prefer to live alone. I can count on one hand the number of people I can live with and not go nuts. I'm lucky I have one of those.
 
Posted by Cap'n Vic (Member # 1477) on January 17, 2007, 18:18:
 
quote:
Originally posted by fs:
I really prefer to live alone. I can count on one hand the number of people I can live with and not go nuts. I'm lucky I have one of those.

Lucky to have a hand? Hell, I have two of those.
 
Posted by uilleann (Member # 1297) on January 17, 2007, 18:27:
 
Course she's lucky. The other one is a hook ...
 
Posted by GameMaster (Member # 1173) on January 17, 2007, 21:37:
 
Make-up sex is fueled, deep down, by anger, frustration, and/or the turn-on of arguing.
No, that's agery sex... Which is probably better than make-up sex, but also rarer. Make-up sex is about comming back together and being at peice once more. Forgiveness, leading to closeness, leading to passion, leading to... sex.

All of which are less than desirable in my eyes. However, I think that make-up sex,
...I'm replacing make-up sex with angry sex... though in context either and both work.
as long as it is part of an otherwise healthy sex life, is nothing I would worry about.
Agreed.

most men like drama because they've come to expect it.
Do you think men that pavlovian? Do you think other women that drama ridden? You are too cynical and gender biased.

[Men] have absolutely no clue what to do with a woman who is relatively drama-free. No clue. None. Nada.
zip...ziltch....yada...yada... I get it, your not a drama; and so much different than any girl any man you've ever dated is... uh-huh.

How many geek girls here think them selves "high maintance drama queens?"

How many think themselves "layed back geek girls?"

I don't think it's that unusual for girls to NOT be the drama-queens that we see in the media and hear stories about.

Every guy gets a shot to adjust to what he claims to want in a relationship.
Are you implying "Guys don't know what they want" or "Guys claim differently to bag the girl?" The use of the word claim here really makes it sound like you don't think what is comming out of their mouth is their real intent. And what about YOUR adjustment?

That adjustment period varies greatly depending on the guy and the level of promise the relationship appears to have.
I'll give you that, but what is being adjusted is a little ambigous here... Let's read on and see.

I was referring (although, not as clearly as I had hoped) to the vast majority of guys who just complain about the differences and how difficult it is to adjust instead of adjusting.
Adjust to what? What are you adjusting for them in return? Compromise is a two way street.

Some even mistake adjusting to having to change some aspect of their personalities...
What changes are you asking for? Some things require changes in their personalities. Have you thought to ask why they do things the way they do? Have you tried to understand and accept some of their traits that you think "need adjusting"?

who they are, if you will. This is not only absurd, it's also incorrect. It's just adjusting a behavior
Who they are -- their identy -- is what most affects their behavior. It shapes the way they act more than it affects anything else. Moreover, asking them to change a behavior is asking them to either:
- change the motivations and part of their identy that is linked to that behavior or
- supress the identy that is their true nature and wear a mask

Some changes and adjustments are acceptable and expected to men; if, there is compromise.

"that, quite frankly, isn't a positive thing anyway."
By whose standards? Yours or his?

I don't write anyone off too soon.
No, from what you've said, I'd guess you have "I can change him" syndrome. Look at dating as an interveiw process for a steady relationship. Look at a steady relationship as an interveiw process for marriage. Look at engagment has having accepted the position, but haven't found a cubicle for your new "staff member" yet. There are more canidates out there, the labor pool is vast and diverse and if you get a feeling that he's not the person for the job, let him go. Sooner rather than later, for two reasons:
1. Shit or get off the pot. Your taking up your interveiw time, and his. You both need to find the position that best suits you, and if this clearly isn't it, why waste the time trying to retrain them while they try to retrain you?
2. Sooner it happens, less it will hurt both of you.

If anything, I keep them around too long. I try to ditch the losers with great speed, but some of them are sneaky.
Then adjust your interveiwing process. Figure out what qualities you require, what habbits are counter productive and advertise to those. Note, that lying on the application is an automatic termination.
 
Posted by Steen (Member # 170) on January 17, 2007, 22:32:
 
GameMaster wrote:
zip...ziltch....yada...yada... I get it, your not a drama; and so much different than any girl any man you've ever dated is... uh-huh.

catgoddess actually is quite different... you'd have to have talked to her for quite a bit to understand that. She is also not a dramatic person by any stretch of the imagination. She's the sort of person who would call you up and ask how you're doing before getting around to mentioning that she'd just been in a car accident and was waiting to be seen in the ER. Laid back doesn't even begin to cover it.

Are you implying "Guys don't know what they want" or "Guys claim differently to bag the girl?" The use of the word claim here really makes it sound like you don't think what is comming out of their mouth is their real intent.

She's saying she's been involved with a number of dumbasses who said they wanted x (which she is), but then complained that she wasn't y. For example: It's not uncommon for a guy to say he wants a woman who is independent, then turn around and complain if the she doesn't come running to him with her problems, because it makes him feel unneeded. Well, duh... they aren't needed, which is not the same thing as not wanted, but quite a few people don't get that subtle diffence.

Adjust to what? What are you adjusting for them in return? Compromise is a two way street.

Once again, you've got it wrong. catgoddess is definitely willing to compromise on most things. Like anyone, there are some very specific things she will not compromise on like lying, making assumptions about her without asking, serial killing, driving a Buick...

What changes are you asking for? Some things require changes in their personalities. Have you thought to ask why they do things the way they do? Have you tried to understand and accept some of their traits that you think "need adjusting"?

Once more, you've got it backwards. Adjusting to someone else's behavior does not require you to change your personality. Continuing my previous example, most people make assumptions about others because they can't ask everything. Put them in a room with catgoddess and they'll behave like they normally do, making assumptions rather than simply asking. This will piss her off to no end.

In short, when she says "making adjustments", she means adjusting to accept her for who she is, not changing your personality to fit some mold that you assume she's decided that all potential suitors have to fit into.

Moreover, asking them to change a behavior is asking them to either:
- change the motivations and part of their identity that is linked to that behavior or


She doesn't ask for a change in behavior except, as I mentioned, very specific and understandable things (no lying, no making assumptions, no serial killing of prostitutes, etc).

- suppress the identity that is their true nature and wear a mask

Actually, doing that would most likely result in an automatic breakup when she found out. No lying or deception is a big one for her. I don't see the problem with someone demanding that you be who you are and not be fake, however, and I'm not sure anyone actually wants the person they love to not be real.

No, from what you've said, I'd guess you have "I can change him" syndrome.

Bzzzt! Thank you for playing. I think we have some boxes of rice-a-roni for you as a consolation prize.

catgoddess doesn't want to change anyone. She wants to be accepted for who she is by someone who doesn't have the fatal flaws that are unacceptable in a relationship. I think we can all relate to that.
 
Posted by dragonman97 (Member # 780) on January 17, 2007, 22:41:
 
Maybe GM doesn't want to admit that he was lurking around Atlantic City a few weeks ago? [Wink]
 
Posted by catgoddess (Member # 6838) on January 17, 2007, 23:24:
 
Yea... what Steen said!

I'm just going to gloss over the entire make-up/angry sex debate. Anyone who thinks angry sex is incredible probably was in Jersey over the weekend...

I base the fact that I am different from the countless times I've been told, "You're so different from anyone else I've ever dated." If only I had a dollar for every time I've heard it... I could be in the Maldives right now... well, maybe not quite this time of year.

I have never been called a drama queen by anyone I've ever known in 33 years. I'm pretty sure if it hasn't happened yet, it wont - much like Bush acquiring half a brain or Donald Trump wearing a better hair piece; I don't hold my breath.

My "claim" is just as I stated and as Steen reiterated and that everyone else seemed to understand but you. I'm not out to change anyone. I'm perfectly content with accepting someone as they are. The "adjustment" quite clearly referred to is exactly as stated: Guy says he wants x, but when given x, he can't/wont adjust to what he "claimed" to have wanted, so he expects me to become y.

I'll refrain from the Psychology lesson of the differences between personality and behavior. I suggest looking them up before you "claim" to know anything about them (which is painfully obvious that you do not).

My ambiguity is intentional because I'm quite certain no one wants to hear a play-by-play of every relationship I've ever been in and the many nuances of them. Every person is different, the adjustments are different, and so are the compromises (on both parts, obviously).

Again... I don't expect any "traits" to be "adjusted." I never claimed otherwise. The adjusted behaviors are what the men being discussed have expressed, not what I've expressed. I'm happy to move along if someone is happy to be with a drama queen, obsessed, psycho for a girlfriend. I am not that person and I don't EVER try and "change him" into wanting someone like me. Give me a break.

I'm pretty certain that societal norms dictate what is "acceptable" and what isn't. Whether one chooses to buy in to some, all, or none of those norms is ones own choosing. It is commonly accepted that negative behaviors (those resulting in detriment to ones self or to others) are "unacceptable." I tend to find accepting that basic rule a very low standard much in the way I find abusive behavior unacceptable. But then, that example is one not typically up for debate.

quote:
Look at dating as an interveiw process for a steady relationship. Look at a steady relationship as an interveiw process for marriage. Look at engagment has having accepted the position, but haven't found a cubicle for your new "staff member" yet.
What's next? Being barefoot and pregnant? I look at relationships as I deem fit for me. And I trust that you look at relationships as you deem fit for yourself. My only disgust with men (and all people, for that matter) is when they say they want something, are given the something, then become clueless with what to do with it... so they expect the something (aka. ME) to become what they said they didn't want in the first place. Period.

quote:
Figure out what qualities you require, what habbits are counter productive and advertise to those.
I know what qualities I require. I know what I want out of life. Again, review previously mentioned and obviously better understood posts about what I was saying. Lest I beat it into the ground, I was stating that I'm tired of men (as is the title of this topic "Guys, Guys, Guys") not knowing what they really want!

You clearly missed the boat on this one and are drowning in contaminated waters without a lifeline.
 


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