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Author Topic: So Where is CP on this?
TheMoMan
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Icon 1 posted July 22, 2009 09:07      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
______________________ So Where is CP on this? ______________________


http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/07/22/gates.arrest.reaction/index.html

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Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.


Benjamin Franklin,

Posts: 5855 | From: Just South of the Huron National Forest, in the water shed of the Rifle River | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted July 22, 2009 14:35      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Years ago, I was breaking into my own car out the front of my house when the police drove by. They stopped, asked who I was, and what I was up to. I told them I'd locked the keys in the car, gave my name and pointed to my house and said "I live there".

And then they drove off, never even asked to see ID.

Another time, I was walking to the local shops when I was stopped by the cops, questioned, and then they tried to search me. I refused, and a rather tense confrontation ensued during which I was threatened with arrest, but they eventually backed down when it became clear that I knew my rights and was going to insist on them.

What's all this got to do with the prof?

Well, maybe he's the victim of racism, or maybe he just met the wrong cops on a bad day.

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If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

Posts: 10705 | From: Melbourne, Australia | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
TheMoMan
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Icon 1 posted July 22, 2009 14:59      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
____________________ The Famous Druid ____________________

____ Not sure about elsewhere but here in Michigan, we have small town cops (usually have an attitude) County Deputies, better Than the small town cops, and The Michigan State Police. These guys are pros and just want to get through the day with out anyone getting killed. Having been a biker I have dealt with them all. I have been stopped for speeding when I wasn't, told to watch my speed when all my paperwork was in order, The best one was a nice spring day I ripped up a county road only to see a MSP car turn on his flasher, (several words under my breath as I slowed down) watched in the mirror as he turned it off and kept going the other way.

____ So back to the Prof. when it became apparent to the cop that the man lived there why bust his chops? Because he wanted to show that uppity (ethnic) his place

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Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.


Benjamin Franklin,

Posts: 5855 | From: Just South of the Huron National Forest, in the water shed of the Rifle River | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted July 22, 2009 15:20      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by TheMoMan:
when it became apparent to the cop that the man lived there why bust his chops? Because he wanted to show that uppity (ethnic) his place

Where I grew up was 'a bad neighborhood', a lot of welfare housing, and a high crime rate. Walking down the street you risked being stopped and questioned by the cops on suspicion of being a male between the ages of 13 and 30. One of my schoolmates failed to maintain a respectful silence during this ritual humiliation, so they arrested him for vagrancy (he had no money on him, that was the law at the time) and he spent a few hours in a cell until his parents came to get him.

White kid, in school uniform, within sight of the school, 5 minutes after school got out.

The moral of the story: you don't have to be black to have a [email protected]@rd cop 'show you your place'.

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If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

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GrumpySteen

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Icon 1 posted July 22, 2009 15:26      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I have no doubt that there are racists on the police force, but it's also true that Gates and his friend were having trouble opening the door, had to force it. Somebody who saw them shouldering the door open called the police and reported a possible break-in. An officer showing up and asking for ID is not only understandable, but desirable.

Unfortunately, at point the stories become contradictory and neither sounds entirely true. Gates depicts himself as being completely cooperative and polite when most people would have been upset. The police officer's claims depict Gates as uncooperative and screaming "racism" from the start, which sounds equally unlikely.

The truth is probably somewhere between the two stories, but there's no way to tell what it actually is.

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Xanthine

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Icon 2 posted July 22, 2009 20:36      Profile for Xanthine     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
The cops arrived because someone saw a two black men forcing a door and called them in. This does not excuse what happened next, but I'd say the racial profiling extends beyond the police force.

My parents live in an upper-middle class subdivision. Complete with a HOA and a contract with rent-a-cops. Every now and again, students come around selling magazine subscriptions and the like. Pretty common. One evening, it was a small troop of young black men. Whoop-the-doo, right? About ten minutes after my mother shooed them off, she was utterly incensed to see that someone had called the rent-a-cops and they'd sent a car around. Just in case, you know? [Roll Eyes]

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And it's one, two, three / On the wrong side of the lee / What were you meant for? / What were you meant for?
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dragonman97

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Icon 1 posted July 22, 2009 21:39      Profile for dragonman97   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Well, pardon me for not knowing who this guy is.

By the same token, I haven't a fscking clue who any of the white guys are on leading sports teams. I'm equal opportunity in my relative disdain for celebrities. [Razz]

Did this guy actually explain that it was his house? How are the police to know? While my inclinations towards privacy and civil liberties are strong, I believe in being sensible, and I don't see this as a case of 'papers please.' He was in China - unless it's a whirlwind press tour, people usually take a bit of time to visit -- so it might be notable to his neighbors that a previously unoccupied home was being entered in a way not dissimilar to a breaking & entry. As such, it's a reasonable response of the police to check things out, and that includes a sensible request of the person in the house -- who might not be known to every person on that police force.

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There are three things you can be sure of in life: Death, taxes, and reading about fake illnesses online...

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Xanthine

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Icon 1 posted July 22, 2009 22:30      Profile for Xanthine     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
You'd think neighbors would recognize each other though. I'm also wondering what the woman who called it in thought she was looking at - it seems like there'd be a marked difference between someone wrestling with a key and then slamming their shoulder into the door at the right moment and someone actually trying to bust a door down.

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And it's one, two, three / On the wrong side of the lee / What were you meant for? / What were you meant for?
- The Decemberists

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TMBWITW,PB

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Icon 1 posted July 23, 2009 00:10      Profile for TMBWITW,PB     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by dragonman97:
Did this guy actually explain that it was his house? How are the police to know?

Yes he did, he even showed them his ID to confirm the fact.

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Ashitaka

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Icon 1 posted July 23, 2009 01:24      Profile for Ashitaka     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by The Famous Druid:

The moral of the story: you don't have to be black to have a [email protected]@rd cop 'show you your place'.

true, I have been stopped and held for walking out of my university library after 11:00 pm. they said it was a curfew check. I said I have no ID but you just saw me walk out of a university library, what are the odds I am under 18 and in college. he wanted to know why I would go out without any ID (I didn't need a badge to get in the library after hours, just a key.) I was held for an hour while he ran my name to make sure I wasn't lying.

so if you are black and harrassed by the police, you cannot say it was 'casue you were black, the police could just be bored. You don't know.

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TMBWITW,PB

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Icon 1 posted July 23, 2009 07:47      Profile for TMBWITW,PB     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Ashitaka:

so if you are black and harrassed by the police, you cannot say it was 'casue you were black, the police could just be bored. You don't know.

In an individual case it is hard to tell definitively whether or not it was due to racism. Almost anything can be explained away. But when police harassment disproportionately affects people of color you have to wonder why they get "bored" or "have a bad day" at those times. Even if the cops were acting exactly like they would have with a white man, we still live in a culture that tolerates that kind of behavior more when a black man is involved, so if they acted inappropriately they are less likely to be punished--or have the punishment be less severe.

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"Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and it may be necessary from time to time to give a stupid or misinformed beholder a black eye."
—Miss Piggy

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Callipygous
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Icon 1 posted July 23, 2009 14:58      Profile for Callipygous     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Ash, I'd say that the facts of this case are such that I'd feel pretty comfortable making the assumption that those police were racists. Of course it is just possible that they were just stupid malicious and bored, but it seems far more likely that they were racist as well.

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"Knowledge is Power. France is Bacon" - Milton

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