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Author Topic: anyone know much about the Raw and Living Food diet?
Nitrozac

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Icon 5 posted February 05, 2007 12:02      Profile for Nitrozac   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
In my Vegan journey I've come across Raw and Living food info, there seems to be a large following where we live. I kinda thought it was bunk, but they make some interesting claims, mostly that cooking food causes free radicals and carcinogens to occur in food. Somehow, I doubt it, and wonder about the validity. However, it might be worth checking into, apparently if you try it for 30 days you feel awesome, and lose a bunch of weight. hmmm.

Anyone on or tried this Raw diet?

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TheMoMan
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Icon 1 posted February 05, 2007 12:11      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Nitrozac______________________The only creatures I know of are cows, deer, sheep, goats and bears. I have also heard that raw veggies are better for you, but if you are predisposed to GERD that may become a problem. The Mrs and myself eat steamed food most often as the temps don't get so high. I can't say that the deer around here look unhealthy, they can sure out run our Siberian.

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littlefish
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Icon 1 posted February 05, 2007 12:34      Profile for littlefish   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Cooking aids digestion in most cases and can help destroy naturally occuring toxins in plants (potatoes) spring to mind.

Boiling can leach out vitamins. It is swings and roundabouts really.

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Stereo

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Icon 1 posted February 05, 2007 12:40      Profile for Stereo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Deep frying definitely causes some unhealthy chemicals to be added to your food, and I know that cooking can destroy some (but not all) vitamins. And some vegetables must be cooked before eating (a quick search revealed taro and plantain to be among them), and so do grains - rice being the first that comes to mind.

Steam cooking is one of the healthiest way of cooking vegetables, while boiling washes out most nutrient out of them. Sauté is also a healthy alternative, as long as you don't overcook them. And barbequed veggie kebab... :drools: (Again, don't overcook! Al dente is as close to perfection as it can be.)

(Good. Now, I'm hungry a bowl of steamed rice with sautéd vegetables and seafood, but that last part you can skip. [Wink] )

You know, life doesn't have to be bland to be good for you. If you take out a full category of food out of your diet, I believe you should at least allow you some diversity about how to eat what you still do. But as anything else, the final choice is yours. (Although you may want to see a dietetician before long, just to make sure you get everything you need. Just because some people do it - as say they feel good - doesn't make it right. Many people feel good and loose weight when taking methamphetamines, too, but it can destroy a life faster than deep-fried onion rings. [Big Grin] )

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Nitrozac

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Icon 1 posted February 05, 2007 12:54      Profile for Nitrozac   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
yeah, good points. I think I'll consult my doctor before delving into the Raw thing. I was thinking a combination, some cooked, some raw, which is kinda what I eat now, seems ok.

I remember I saw the show Market Place and Wendy Mesley did a show about Acrylimides (spelling?), which are carcinogenic and occur when carbohydrate food, even complex carbs are cooked quickly on high heat. The public was not made aware of these findings. So, potatoe chips, french fries, breakfast cereal, were culprits. Interesting. I'll keep checking it out.

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Ashitaka

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Icon 1 posted February 05, 2007 12:56      Profile for Ashitaka     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Stereo:
Deep frying definitely causes some unhealthy chemicals to be added to your food,

What unhealthy chemicals are added to ones food by deepfrying?

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Stereo

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Icon 1 posted February 05, 2007 13:12      Profile for Stereo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Ashitaka:
quote:
Originally posted by Stereo:
Deep frying definitely causes some unhealthy chemicals to be added to your food,

What unhealthy chemicals are added to ones food by deepfrying?
Nitrozac got it (almost) right: acrylamides, a carcinogenic compound. (The Wiki page I linked to seems very good.) Ok, not really "added" per se, but created. (And just as so many other things, once in a while in limited amounts isn't really dangerous, but a continuous diet of chips, fries and the like is bad - although the cholesterol will likely kill you before the acrylamides.)

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Galileo Galilei

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Icon 1 posted February 05, 2007 13:21      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Stereo:
Steam cooking is one of the healthiest way of cooking vegetables, while boiling washes out most nutrient out of them.

Don't forget the humble microwave. Here in Casa del Druid, many vegetables that are traditionally boiled now get a quick zap in the microwave, they taste much better, and you're not pouring most of the vitamins out with the water. Fresh corn cobs, microwaved in their leaves are especially nice.

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Xanthine

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Icon 1 posted February 05, 2007 13:38      Profile for Xanthine     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
While cooking can damage some of the vitamins in veggies (C is notoriously unstable) most of the minerals you need can only be accessed by cooking your food (quirk of human digestion, nothing to be done). When I took undergrad biochm th prof had a nutritionist come in and talk to us and sh showd us an x-ray of a five (that's right, five) year-old with osteporosis so sevre hr boes were almost transparent on the x-ray. The problem? Her parents had her on a vegan, raw-food diet and she wasn't getting any calcium that way (plants contain calcium, but you MUST cook them to make that calcium available to you). So keep mixing it up, and never over-cook your food. Veggies should bright and only a little bit tender, never dull and limp.

Frying is a bad idea for a lot of reasons, not just the acrylamide (which, incidentally, is also neurotoxic...spill even an 8% solution on yourself and your skin will tingle). In fact, I'd put acrylamide at the bottom of your list of worries, and fat and cholesterol at the top.

There're no miracles in nutrition. Eat a variety, and eat in moderation.

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Nitrozac

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Icon 1 posted February 05, 2007 15:07      Profile for Nitrozac   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Xan, thanks for that info, that's just what I was looking for! I remember in school we learned that. Scary about the five year old with oestoperosis! I'll definitely be cooking the vegan grub, and having some raw food too, with lots of variety and moderation! Personally, restricting to raw food only, would hamper my enjoyment of foods I love, to be honest; spaghetti, mashed potatoes, bread, rice, oatmeal.... etc.
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Colonel Panic
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Icon 1 posted February 05, 2007 15:14      Profile for Colonel Panic         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Trust Xanthine, she knows her stuff.

Another thing vegans really like, but must be cooked to access the protiens: soy beans.

Also Nitro, learn to blance your amino acids. Corn/beans, rice/beans. There is a reason some classic vegetarian dishes are made this way -- people long time ago realized they are healthier when certain foods were mixed and cooked together.

Perhaps the most dangerous thing about going vegan is that you run tinto people on the nutrional fringe and you can get a lot of bad information.

I recall my ex-wife, who was a fantastic vegetarian cook and also had Ph.D. in molecular biology, would get into these incredible fights with the fringe who espoused things about nutrition that had no basis in reality.

I wish you luck on your voyage in veganland, Nitro. Keep to tried and true recipes and don't forget your B-complex.

Colonel Panic

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NoRealReason
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Icon 1 posted February 05, 2007 19:23      Profile for NoRealReason   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Boiling can leach out vitamins. It is swings and roundabouts really.
Ehm, what does that phrase mean? Roughly the same as "6 of 1,half-dozen of the other?"

Also, Xan suggested moderation. My motto is;
"Moderation in all things, including moderation."

I try to moderate most of the time, but there is a time for indulgence, and a time for fasting.

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littlefish
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Icon 1 posted February 06, 2007 00:28      Profile for littlefish   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Ehm, what does that phrase mean? Roughly the same as "6 of 1,half-dozen of the other?"

Yep. six and two threes.

link

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TheMoMan
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Icon 1 posted February 06, 2007 03:04      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Nitrozac_______________________If you are going to (possibly include) meats in your diet, count the feet. Four feet should not be on the list, two feet (not primates) chicken, fowl, water fowl. and fish, I do not think that serpents need to be added, but that is personal. Fewer feet is healthier.

Extreme cold, we saw the ground hog Sunday frozen stiff and the crows were after his body, damn fool should have gone back into the burrow.

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Stibbons
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Icon 1 posted February 06, 2007 04:47      Profile for Stibbons   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by TheMoMan:
two feet (not primates) chicken, fowl, water fowl. and fish,

On an unrelated note, has anyone ever wondered why humans can eat just about any meat rare with little or no side effects, yet chicken is almost lethal uncooked. Perhaps it was evolved by chickens to stop primates preying on them?

As far as living food is concerned, I lost all respect for it when I was told by someone who eats a living food diet (and have hence had it confirmed by several websites - living-foods.com rings a bell, but I can't find the article) that you can't have an allergic reaction to living food as it still contains the enzymes (woooo! magical mysterious enzymes!) that prevent allergic reactions. Although I suppose I should try it before mocking *too* heavily, I can think of better things to entrust my life to than a raw peanut activated by sticking it in water...

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GrumpySteen

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Icon 1 posted February 06, 2007 06:18      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Stibbons:
Invite the individual to chow down on a poison ivy salad. It's not really a poison... it's an allergic reaction.

Be sure you have 911 on speed dial in case they try it, though, as the reaction to poison ivy can be fatal when it's eaten. As they cart him away, you can ask him how well the enzymes are working for him.

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maximile

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Icon 1 posted February 06, 2007 08:42      Profile for maximile   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Penn & Teller's Bullshit mentioned this in their episode on food.

They were talking more about the few people that try to stop others from eating cooked food. The arguments on either side were pretty insubstantial, but I've never disagreed with anything Penn has said so far, and I'm not about to start now. [Wink]

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Stereo

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Icon 1 posted February 06, 2007 09:08      Profile for Stereo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by TheMoMan:
(...) I do not think that serpents need to be added, but that is personal. Fewer feet is healthier.

Hmmm, remind me that one time I had a chance to taste a rattlesnake pizza, but they didn't have any left... But had the chance to taste crocodile, though! [Big Grin]

But about that fewer legs is better, what do you say about insects? Many people in Africa (and other places too) consider grasshoppers and the like as delicacy. (Come to think of it, Chineese find chicken feet a delicacy - I don't know why, there's so little of meat on them it's hard to eat at all.)

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Icon 1 posted February 06, 2007 09:10      Profile for ScholasticSpastic     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
TheMoMan:
If you are going to (possibly include) meats in your diet, count the feet. Four feet should not be on the list, two feet (not primates) chicken, fowl, water fowl. and fish, I do not think that serpents need to be added, but that is personal. Fewer feet is healthier.

Wow, I used to do that!! But then I realised that the number of limbs didn't always correlate to the quality of the meat. Alligator, for instance, is a tasty, healthy four-legged meat that I'd rather not commit to abstaining from. So then I reevaluated my limbs rule and now I eat animals with any number of limbs. I'd also like to point out that shrimp have lots of limbs and the little sea-cockroaches are as good as good can be.

My solution to the problem of the limbs rule was to seek out another readily apparent external trait that was shared by bad food animals and lacking in the good ones. Being a man, my attention immediately fixated on nipples. None of the healthier foods have nipples. The majority of the unhealthy foods do. Since then, I've been enjoying a nipple-free diet and the health benefits thereof. It's also lots of fun to refuse a dish on the grounds that it's a nipply-food.

Plants will never contain highly unsaturated fatty acids in the quantities that our dwindling fisheries do. I'll not swear off meat entirely until overfishing does the job for me.

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drunkennewfiemidget
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Icon 1 posted February 06, 2007 09:58      Profile for drunkennewfiemidget     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I love alligator, and I love nipples.
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garlicguy

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Icon 1 posted February 06, 2007 10:51      Profile for garlicguy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by drunkennewfiemidget:
I love alligator, and I love nipples.

Newf, you sound like Martin Strel, the guy who is swimming the Amazon River!

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Demosthenes
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Icon 1 posted February 06, 2007 14:00      Profile for Demosthenes     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Nitrozac:
However, it might be worth checking into, apparently if you try it for 30 days you feel awesome, and lose a bunch of weight.

The raw diet was widely publicized by this nutritionist and dietary expert:
 -

...so I'd double-check your sources to make sure that they're accurate. [Wink] I know of one practicing raw foods dieter, and his kidneys are currently in the process of shutting down because he refuses to get some vitamin B12 into him (oh noes, animal proteins!)...thus, with my observation pool consisting of Paris Hilton and a goth dude who's about to be put on dialysis, I can't vouch.

Seriously, while you lose a little nutritional content by cooking food, you also lose germs and anything else that might've been stuck to the food at the farm, on the shipment truck, or at the store. I don't see the rationale here.

(I take my fruit dried and unsulphured, due to my preservative allergy; it may serve as a good middle ground for you.)

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ARJ
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Icon 1 posted February 06, 2007 14:40      Profile for ARJ   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I don't know a lot about the raw food diet, although I did once read an article on someone trying it in order to deal with a fertility problem (I guess she was pretty desperate?). But I can say that I've been told that spinach is another one that is worth cooking, as you don't get the iron out of it until it's cooked.

On the raw side of things, I've heard it's worthwhile nutritionally to eat raw sprouts (lentil, snow pea, bean, alfalfa are all good). I've read that fresh sprouts are choc full of nutrition, but I don't know how much fud there is in that. Fresh fruits are always good for vitamin C, which doesn't survive cooking or preservation very well (I've read that fresh chilis, for example, have loads of C but if you dry them they have hardly any).

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Callipygous
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Icon 1 posted February 06, 2007 16:11      Profile for Callipygous     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
While I understand how the environmental, spiritual and health aspects of diet are important to Nitrozac and many others here, the real reason that the raw food diet should be unacceptable to all but the most fundamentalist, and ascetic of vegans is that it would remove nearly all the pleasure from cooking and eating. And pleasure is important. I want some self gratification from my life, indeed without it, it's not life but just existence, and I might as well be a goldfish in a bowl, and the pleasure of cooking and eating well is one of the most fundamental ones there is, and uniquely a pleasure that is not usually affected by age or infirmity. We should treasure it.

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Nitrozac

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Icon 1 posted February 07, 2007 15:40      Profile for Nitrozac   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
The raw food thing, from what I understand, their arguement is that they want to eat living cells, and cooking causes the cells to die, so they don't think that dead cells is healthy. I dunno about that one. However I think that throwing some raw food snacks or sides is a good idea, they do have some very clever and interesting recipes I'd like to try.

lol, steen, you come up with some good ones! [Big Grin] Poison Ivy salad! Immediately it makes me wonder what kinds of antioxidants is in poison ivy, perhaps it is a powerhouse of nutrition! [Razz] There are some stinging nettle enthusiast around here, and I don't know how they handle it! I brushed up against some stinging nettle when I was gardening because I didn't know what it was, and YOW! I had a painful stinging rash for hours! Then I heard people eat it! Or drink it as tea! [Confused]

I don't know how people slurp down raw oysters, I tried it several years ago and did not like it all. We have oyster farms over here and, they stink, and the buldings look filthy and they have horrible looking piles of garbage everywhere, and of course tons of sea gulls pooping everywhere.eeeewwwwwww.

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