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» The Geek Culture Forums   » News, Reviews, Views!   » Politics/Religion/Current Affairs   » OH POOP there goes the 4th amendment.

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Author Topic: OH POOP there goes the 4th amendment.
TheMoMan
BlabberMouth, a Blabber Odyssey
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Icon 1 posted July 17, 2013 20:33      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Well you can kiss the 4th good by


Calgary Hearld

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Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.


Benjamin Franklin,

Posts: 5848 | From: Just South of the Huron National Forest, in the water shed of the Rifle River | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
dragonman97

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Icon 1 posted July 17, 2013 22:17      Profile for dragonman97   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
If plate reading is so effective, why did they need to issue an Amber alert at 4 AM with license plate info?

I guess I had my phone on silent last night - it showed up as unread message this morning. If I had the sound on, I probably would have jumped out of bed - the emergency text alert sound on Android is a scary fscking thing.

I've received legit weather warnings during wakeful hours with that system, and once I found the screen some time ago (it's /buried/ in a nonobvious place), I deliberately left the box checked for Amber alerts thinking there might be a remote chance it might be relevant. Sending a bone-chilling alert at 4 AM when I'm in no position to do something useful with the info - no...that's an abuse of an otherwise OK system. Off it went...it'll just be highway signs from here on out.

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There are three things you can be sure of in life: Death, taxes, and reading about fake illnesses online...

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GrumpySteen

Solid Nitrozanium SuperFan
Member # 170

Icon 1 posted July 18, 2013 13:48      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
The 4th Amendment is okay (or as okay as it has been for a while). Reading your openly displayed license plate qualifies as neither search nor seizure.

The Supreme Court set a precedent that privacy is one of the liberties that you can't be deprived of without due process of law, so the 14th Amendment is the relevant one here. Driving down a public road isn't exactly private, though, so it's debatable whether even the 14th applies.

The reality is that nothing in the Constitution or its amendments actually applies to the changes brought about by technology that the lawmakers never envisioned. We've stretched the interpretations as far as they can go and they just aren't going to fit.

Unfortunately, our lawmakers are too caught up in pretending that the Constitution is a holy document that is unquestionably right. There is basically no chance that they'll ever consider another amendment to the Constitution to fix all the gaping holes that modern life has poked in it.

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Posts: 6364 | From: Tennessee | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged
TheMoMan
BlabberMouth, a Blabber Odyssey
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Icon 1 posted July 18, 2013 15:41      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
This is a long read however it covers how and why the Fourth was written.

Legal Dictionary

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Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.


Benjamin Franklin,

Posts: 5848 | From: Just South of the Huron National Forest, in the water shed of the Rifle River | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
dragonman97

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Icon 1 posted July 18, 2013 19:17      Profile for dragonman97   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Steen is right about the letter of the law, and the blind adherence to the gospel that is the Constitution.

However, I must grudgingly concede that these plate scanners are basically lazy equivalents of police officers with steno pads. The easy of searching the databases they create is the area that causes creepiness to enter the equation. I think it's important to note that right now, these are used by individual municipalities, and unless they're centralized and the Feds get access to it, it's not terribly likely to be used to ill effect. After all, an eagle-eyed local cop might be able to easily recall 'Oh yeah, I saw MoMan's truck parked in front of the supermarket last Tuesday. I think he was also at the ice cream stand Sunday afternoon.' All of the public aspects of your card, plate and all, generally fail the expectation of privacy. The apparent violation comes from the larger picture compiled by the data, but that's awfully difficult to regulate unless you make Steen's metalaw, which will never happy with our thoroughly dysfunctional Congress. :/

OTOH, warrant-less cloning of hard drives in airports really gets my goat about the 4th, which really should apply.

P.S. Ooh...article on Ars:
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/07/the-cops-are-tracking-my-car-and-yours/

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There are three things you can be sure of in life: Death, taxes, and reading about fake illnesses online...

Posts: 9333 | From: Westchester County, New York | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
GrumpySteen

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Icon 1 posted July 19, 2013 11:05      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Now here's a real 4th Amendment violation.

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Worst. Celibate. Ever.

Posts: 6364 | From: Tennessee | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged
TheMoMan
BlabberMouth, a Blabber Odyssey
Member # 1659

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Icon 1 posted July 19, 2013 12:38      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I totally agree.

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Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.


Benjamin Franklin,

Posts: 5848 | From: Just South of the Huron National Forest, in the water shed of the Rifle River | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged


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