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Author Topic: Good luck America
Callipygous
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Icon 1 posted November 01, 2010 18:03      Profile for Callipygous     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Please prove the polls wrong.

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"Knowledge is Power. France is Bacon" - Milton

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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted November 01, 2010 19:15      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I dunno, it could be kind of amusing to see the Republicans do well this time, with so many Teahadists running.

Here in oz, we saw something similar about a decade ago. The 'One Nation Party' was basically the Tea Party without the 3-cornered hats. Founded by Pauline Hanson, (a woman who makes Sarah Palin look like an intellectual) they had the same blend of racism, xenophobia, economic illiteracy and unfocused "I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it any more" rage the Teahadists have. They even managed to get some politicians elected, mostly to state parliaments.

It quickly became apparent that the only thing these nutters hate more than foreigners, blacks, jews and socialists is... <drum-roll> Each Other.

The whole thing rapidly degenerated into a huge shit-fight, with so many members taking court action against other members that I lost track. One of the 3 founders was expelled, and the other two ended up doing time for electoral fraud. Most of the elected politicians resigned from the party and sat as independents until the next election, when they were resoundingly defeated.

Totally frakkin' hilarious.

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If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

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Xanthine

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Icon 1 posted November 01, 2010 19:16      Profile for Xanthine     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I moved recently and am not sure which polling place to use. Fortunately my state has early voting, so I filled out my ballot on Friday. I've been braced for impact eve since. With all respect to the Aussies, there are some flavors of hilarity I'd rather not live through, especially since my career path is so heavily tied to federal funding cycles. If the anti-science crowd ends up back in charge I'll be hurting.

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And it's one, two, three / On the wrong side of the lee / What were you meant for? / What were you meant for?
- The Decemberists

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MacManKrisK

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Icon 1 posted November 01, 2010 19:30      Profile for MacManKrisK     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I will vote tomorrow... reluctantly.

It's not that I take my right and ability to vote for granted; but I am extremely disenchanted by our political system. I am sick of voting for the lesser of two evils, and only having two choices. Both political parties are corrupt, they both use dirty, sneaky, underhanded tricks to try to score political points at the expense of the well-being of the citizenry. ALL (American) POLITICIANS ARE SELFISH, SELF-CENTERED, SELF-SERVING ASSHATS! Not one of them give a shit about the actual citizens of this once-great country; hell they don't even call us citizens anymore. We are continually collectively referred to as "The American Consumer," but that's another rant.

The Democrats do the political partisan bullshit namecalling game too, they're just not as good at it as the Republicans. And, yet, I have no real choice. We have a two-party system, not a multi-party system. Though it is true that there are other parties out there, voting for candidates in those other parties, due to the way the system works, is like throwing my vote away. And because I so desperately wish to keep the Republicans out of power, I simply cannot vote on principle, I must cast my vote for the Democrats, even though I don't much like them either.

So tomorrow, I will vote a straight-party ticket, and I will use my big black marker to mark the box next to the picture of the donkey, but I will not do it because I like those guys, I'm doing it because I dislike the other guys more.

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"Buy low, sell high
get rich and you still die"


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Xanthine

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Icon 1 posted November 01, 2010 19:56      Profile for Xanthine     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Think of it this way by casting your vote, you have reserved your right to bitch about the results.

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And it's one, two, three / On the wrong side of the lee / What were you meant for? / What were you meant for?
- The Decemberists

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TheMoMan
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Icon 1 posted November 02, 2010 02:56      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
____ There are so many good points in this thread, all of the posters are dead on. The big problem is most people in this country do not understand that it took from Reagon until two years ago to get into this mess, and they want results yesterday.

____ I am afraid that the lack of results has really worried many, they understand going to work not why there is no work.

____ I am afraid they will get what they are asking for.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/31/opinion/31rich.html

____ I had posted this in another thread but I don't think it got any traction.

____ Tonight, the advertisers will be hawking face creams, tires, and trips to exotic isles.

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Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.


Benjamin Franklin,

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Callipygous
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Icon 1 posted November 02, 2010 03:18      Profile for Callipygous     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by MacManKrisK:
I will vote tomorrow... reluctantly. <snip> [Mad] [Mad] [Mad] </snip> because I dislike the other guys more.

MMKK, your dilemma is not an unusual one, and you will face it at every election, unless you are one of the minority that broadly believes in the political ideology of one of the two main parties. I would argue that this is a feature of democracy not a bug, as when it works it is about getting agreement and necessary decisions from people with a wide variety of views, and we all find it easier to agree on what we dislike than what we desire. A multiparty democracy is no better than a two party system, the only difference being that in a two party system the horse trading and compromises are generally made within the parties before the election, rather than in the coalition negotiations afterwards, so you can argue that you are more likely to get what you vote for in a two party system. Personally I have yet to cast a vote that was for anything more than the lesser of two evils.

As to the moral standing of politicians, you will find your complaint echoed down the years by voters in every democracy throughout history. The first general point I would make is that it is better to look for the good in people than to concentrate on their failings, as all of us, even politicians, perform better with encouragement than criticism. Secondly it is well to remember that although some enter politics for selfish reasons with an unpleasant character fully formed, most do not, and it is an incredibly tough, insecure and demanding profession, and as I implied before if you actually want to get things done, the process of getting agreement is one that it is hard to emerge from with your personal integrity completely clean. So I feel about politicians the way I do about the police. They both do a necessary job that I would not want to do, even if I was qualified to do so, and I regard them both with the same mixture of suspicion and very qualified respect.

That is not to say that there are not ways that your democracy cannot be improved. To take an example, the process of redistricting where the politicians get to choose their voters rather than vice versa, is one of the factors that polarises American politics, because if you have too many safe seats it delivers the parties into the hands of their respective activists. Your media like ours also gives the Right a much much easier ride than their opponents. However all in all I doubt that you will ever achieve the aim of being able to vote for something you actually believe in, unless you are a fool, let alone see those things being made to happen by a resulting government. As Churchill observed democracy is not the best form of government, just the least worst, and this time your choice is at least quite straightforward, between this compromised and imperfect democracy, and the bat shit crazies, who ultimately have no respect whatever for it, when it does not deliver the decision they want, and that to my mind is a very very important difference.

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"Knowledge is Power. France is Bacon" - Milton

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Ashitaka

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Icon 1 posted November 02, 2010 04:16      Profile for Ashitaka     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I have always loved the proverb, "It's like rearrangeing the deck chairs on the Titanic."

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GrumpySteen

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Icon 1 posted November 02, 2010 05:02      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
MacManKrisK wrote:
I'm doing it because I dislike the other guys more.

That describes virtually every vote I've ever cast for a politician.

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Worst. Celibate. Ever.

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TheMoMan
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Icon 1 posted November 02, 2010 06:04      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
____ MMKK, Bibo, Half-Vast, and Myself have to choose a Governor, the two choices are not very good.

____ One is past the ditch on his side, the other is past the ditch on his side.

____ One claims to know how to generate jobs, by the way he was CEO of GateWay, hows that for creating jobs.

____ Ps. TheMrsMoMan and myself have just got back from the polling place, That's done now I can BITCH.

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Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.


Benjamin Franklin,

Posts: 5855 | From: Just South of the Huron National Forest, in the water shed of the Rifle River | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
TheMoMan
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Icon 1 posted November 02, 2010 08:02      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
____ TFD, You have it sooooooooooo good, you will be in your working hours while the results come in. I'll have to wait for tomorrow, and you will be there.

____ Have a good one.

____ I have included a map that may show the outcomes as they become available.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/politics/50states/index.html

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Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.


Benjamin Franklin,

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Xanthine

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Icon 1 posted November 02, 2010 08:16      Profile for Xanthine     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I'm also choosing a governor. Fortunately, the Dem candidate is okay. The GOP candidate is a complete whack-job who believes that the free bicycle program the Dem candidate started up while he was mayor of Denver is really a UN plot to take over the world. Days after the primary the party establishment was asking him to please step aside and they've been asking him to please step aside ever since. This inspired Tom Tancredo, formerly one of our Congressmen, whose pet topic is illegal immigrants and sealing the border (never mind Colorado borders Wyoming, Kansas, Utah, and New Mexico...DAMN those illegal New Mexicans!) to run on the American Constitution Party ticket, thus splitting the conservative vote and giving conservatives the choice between "whack job we know" and "what job we don't". This has given everyone in the state an object lesson in what might happen if only extremists show up for the primaries. That said, the moderate GOP candidate imploded right before the primary. That could not have helped.

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And it's one, two, three / On the wrong side of the lee / What were you meant for? / What were you meant for?
- The Decemberists

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dragonman97

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Icon 1 posted November 02, 2010 08:50      Profile for dragonman97   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Picking a governor, huh?

We have a choice between two leading candidates, one of whom has posters that greet me outside work with the words "We're mad too, Carl!" We also have 5 minor candidates, one of whom is a former madam, and most visibly, another who is the leader of the "Rent is 2 Damn High" [sic] party. Viva Andrew Cuomo!

More disturbingly, a colleague of mine has pointed out the NY Times endorses the Republican in our State Senate district, as the 13 term incumbent appears to be largely incompetent. :/ Upon a review of assorted stuff, he & I are starting to think there may be truth to it, though the challenger is said to be a slumlord, with 400+ violations on the low income housing he owns. Talk about holding your nose while voting... :/

Callipygous' orig. link reminds me of this from '08:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FiQJ9Xp0xxU

(Which I think still stands true today. [Big Grin] )

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There are three things you can be sure of in life: Death, taxes, and reading about fake illnesses online...

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TheMoMan
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Icon 1 posted November 02, 2010 12:12      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
____ Tonight, Tonight, won't be just like any night, The Telly will not have adverts about the Candidates. OH YEAH.

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Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.


Benjamin Franklin,

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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted November 02, 2010 13:43      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I've always thought it strange that Americans, who are so proud of their Democracy, vote on a Tuesday, and people have to find time to vote within a normal working day.

Meanwhile, half a world away, American election days are a public holiday here in Melbourne, for a horse race.

Interestingly, this year the horse that was the red-hot favourite, that had the tipsters calling it a one horse race, was beaten in the last few seconds of the race.

Take that as an omen if you will.

--------------------
If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

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dragonman97

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Icon 1 posted November 02, 2010 14:01      Profile for dragonman97   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by The Famous Druid:
I've always thought it strange that Americans, who are so proud of their Democracy, vote on a Tuesday, and people have to find time to vote within a normal working day.

Well, speaking for my neck of the woods in NY, our polls are open from 0600-2100.

Practically speaking, that ought to allow plenty of time to vote. People have been calling for voting to be held on the weekend either instead of Tuesday, or in addition, but I'm not sure that's going anyway. It's more likely that states will keep adding early voting, as Xanthine referenced for CO.

The thing I find terribly unfair about those hours is that they apparently require the poll workers to be there all day, which is pretty damned grueling, especially given that the median age is probably 67 at my polling place. I'm not sure there's a very good reason for it, save for maybe "Oh, I saw him in here earlier, don't let him vote twice." (Which might work where I am, but would never work in a busier place.)

The funny thing about the choice of Tuesday is that it's quite dated, as it was meant to let people in rural places travel to the cities to vote, and that journey might take 2 days. Now, that's surely moot - and those who might have to travel far ought to be entitled to simply vote by absentee ballot. Oh well. :/

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There are three things you can be sure of in life: Death, taxes, and reading about fake illnesses online...

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Xanthine

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Icon 1 posted November 02, 2010 14:18      Profile for Xanthine     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I'd be shocked if the poll workers and election judges aren't working in shifts.

Anyway, as far as voting twice goes, here in CO you have to present your id and sign in to your precinct's book before you get your ballot. One of the reasons I voted early this year was, because I wasn't sure which polling place to report to, I was afraid I'd spend a good chunk of my day bouncing across town trying to find a station that had my name in their book. I hate hate hate the run-around. Early voting takes all comers, but it does shut down the Friday before the elections so they can update the voter rolls in the precincts and prevent double-voting.

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And it's one, two, three / On the wrong side of the lee / What were you meant for? / What were you meant for?
- The Decemberists

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dragonman97

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Icon 1 posted November 02, 2010 14:31      Profile for dragonman97   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Xanthine:
I'd be shocked if the poll workers and election judges aren't working in shifts.[...]

http://www.westchestergov.com/pdfs/BOE_PollWorkerApplication.pdf

HOURS OF WORK WILL BE FROM 5:30 AM TO 9:00 PM OR TO THE CLOSE OF THE POLLS
(Their capitalization, not mine)

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There are three things you can be sure of in life: Death, taxes, and reading about fake illnesses online...

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TheMoMan
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Icon 1 posted November 02, 2010 16:28      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
____ Callipygous Me thinks your fears are being realized.

--------------------
Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.


Benjamin Franklin,

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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted November 03, 2010 07:37      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Xanthine:
The GOP candidate is a complete whack-job who believes that the free bicycle program the Dem candidate started up while he was mayor of Denver is really a UN plot to take over the world....

...This inspired Tom Tancredo, formerly one of our Congressmen ... ...to run on the American Constitution Party ticket

This sounded interesting, so I checked the Colorado results, and then went digging for the Republican Primary results.

Round figures, Maes (the velocipedophobic teahadist) got the same number of votes in the primary as he got in the actual election, while the Republican cuckoo in the Constitution Party nest got nearly 4 times as many votes as Maes.

Quick analysis: All of Maes' supporters turned out to vote for him in the primary, giving him a narrow win over the establishment Republican. Meanwhile, only about 1/4 of the other conservative voters bothered to turn up for the primary, and then got the fright of their lives when they saw who the official candidate was.

This pattern has been repeated in other contests, eg Alaska, where a 'write-in' conservative candidate has soundly defeated the teahadist in the Senate race.

That's both scary, and comforting.

Scary because a relatively small group of extremists (11% of the total vote, 7% of registered voters) can hijack a major party's selection process.

Comforting because It Didn't Work. When push came to shove, conservative voters refused to back the nutters.

--------------------
If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

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Xanthine

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Icon 1 posted November 03, 2010 07:57      Profile for Xanthine     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Part of what helped Maes in the primary was the more mainstream opponent flamed out rather spectacularly weeks before the primary. Some sort of plagiarism scandal. And then Maes got rocked by a few other issues than just being nuts - apparently he lost track of some campaign funds. Anyway, all the GOP contenders were trailing Hickenlooper going into the primary and Maes was trailing after, which was why Tancredo threatened to enter if the party didn't call for a do-ever. The party told him to bugger off and as a result the American Constitution Party did better in this race than it ever has before in any state.

I have no idea how Republicans in Colorado are feeling. More than a little torn up and pissed off, I imagine (if something like this went down on my side, I'd be pretty upset). For this Dempcrat though, it made for some amusing reading in the news.

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And it's one, two, three / On the wrong side of the lee / What were you meant for? / What were you meant for?
- The Decemberists

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Snaggy

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Icon 2 posted November 03, 2010 07:58      Profile for Snaggy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
/me prepares the bunk beds and health care for the next wave of Yankee immigrants.
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TheMoMan
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Icon 1 posted November 03, 2010 08:58      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
____ Snaggy, from what I hear London is more moderate than here, I guess I could move South.

--------------------
Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.


Benjamin Franklin,

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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted November 03, 2010 20:23      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Saw it summed up rather well on another site...

"America is like the girl in an abusive relationship that keeps getting back together with that moron everyone hates....

...but he's going to be different this time, he swears!"

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If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

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TheMoMan
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Icon 1 posted November 04, 2010 03:05      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Very good read, is he for the country or his re-election, sorta reminds
me of J. Carter.


http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/11/02/how-obama-saved-capitalism-and-lost-the-midterms/?partner=rss&emc=rss

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Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.


Benjamin Franklin,

Posts: 5855 | From: Just South of the Huron National Forest, in the water shed of the Rifle River | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged


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