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Author Topic: Taking up a collection for ASM
Colonel Panic
BlabberMouth, the Next Generation
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Icon 1 posted June 01, 2007 19:42      Profile for Colonel Panic         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Time to put up or shut up ASM.

You put your tail on the line and I will help finance your trip to the line. I'm sure there will be a lot of other geeks joining me.

Here's the deal: You believe in the war in Iraq so much? Show it!

We'll pay for 1-way air fare, 1 M-16, 1 parachute, no flack jacket (because hell, you and your righty friends wouldn't do it for our troops when you started this war), and we'll drop your ass off at 15,000 feet over Fallujah.

You fight your way out. Freelance. Don't come back until there is peace in the Middle East.

60-million people voted for Bush and the war in the last election, and the ironic thing is I haven't seen .01 percent of them show up at the local recruiting office to fight for it. It's like that radio you and your buddies listen to -- all talk and no action. Yet you blame "Loony Liberals" for the failure.

You lost the war. Accept this offer or accept the fact that you are a branded coward. A big mouth. A blow hard. A do-nothing, know-nothing waste of DNA.

As for the return ticket home? Once you have negotiated permanent peace, we'll pay for your ticket out of that tax cut you gave up because you are such a believer in the cause.

Go. Now. Or forever be the yellow belly you truly are.

Colonel Panic

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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted June 01, 2007 20:19      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I'm in, put me down for $100.00

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If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

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boo
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Icon 1 posted June 01, 2007 21:18      Profile for boo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I don't know who ASM is, nor is it germane to this post. I generally avoid the politics forum and don't really even know Colonel Panic well at all, since he apparently does most of his posting here and I, as I said, don't. But what I do know is that CP is a *controversial* figure here and is at the heart of many heated debates. I know a bit about that position, myself. [Big Grin] My question is, with all the er, debating going on, can anyone say anything good, anything constructive, actually comes of it? [ohwell]
Posts: 775 | From: us of a | Registered: Oct 2006  |  IP: Logged
Rhonwyyn

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Icon 1 posted June 02, 2007 06:18      Profile for Rhonwyyn   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Hey! How did a vote for Bush automatically a vote for the war? There are a whole bunch of causes for which Bush is "for" and "against." Why couldn't people have voted for Bush for those reasons? Why does it always have to be about the war?

Sheesh... it's like some of you are obsessed.

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maximile

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Icon 1 posted June 02, 2007 06:41      Profile for maximile   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by boo:
My question is, with all the er, debating going on, can anyone say anything good, anything constructive, actually comes of it? [ohwell]

I'd say so.

  • People enjoy it. If no one enjoyed it, no one would participate in any of the threads and they'd never go anywhere.
  • It's good for people. Being able to express your opinions is important, and writing them down is a big help. Discussions such as the ones found on GC are great at encouraging that in a way that spoken conversations IRL aren't.
  • It exposes you to viewpoints you might never have heard otherwise. We hear stuff on the news all the time about what's going on in other countries, but opportunities like this one allow us to hear what's bothering the people like us in those countries, with whom we can identify, about the events we hear about.
  • It lets people form bonds. The obvious ones are between people who have suddenly found that they have a lot of opinions in common. But equally important are the bonds formed between two people who have strongly opposing viewpoints, but come to realise that their opponent is as intelligent and thoughtful as they are. That can result in surprisingly close relationships.

So that's what I consider constructive to come out of it. Add to this the fact that such threads are (a) easy to ignore and (b) have a lot of work put into them by a lot of people who care a lot about the matter being discussed, and I think it's a bit strange that there are a few* intent on stopping this kind of discussion.

I think those few might be surprised by how many people like me there are, who read these threads with interest, are affected by them but don't feel they have anything of value to add and so keep quiet.

* I'm not talking about you, boo.

Posts: 1085 | From: London, UK (Powys, UK in hols) | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
garlicguy

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Icon 1 posted June 02, 2007 08:09      Profile for garlicguy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by boo:
I don't know who ASM is, nor is it germane to this post. I generally avoid the politics forum and don't really even know Colonel Panic well at all, since he apparently does most of his posting here and I, as I said, don't. But what I do know is that CP is a *controversial* figure here and is at the heart of many heated debates. I know a bit about that position, myself. [Big Grin] My question is, with all the er, debating going on, can anyone say anything good, anything constructive, actually comes of it? [ohwell]

At times it polarizes me enough to avoid certain posters, (not you boo), thus freeing up a bit of time for me to do something constructive. [thumbsup] But Colonel Panic is not controversial. (Don't ask, publicly anyway. [Big Grin] )

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I don't know what I was thinking... it seemed like a good idea at the time.

Posts: 3753 | From: Pluto, no matter what you call it, is still my home. | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
ASM65816
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Icon 2 posted June 02, 2007 10:02      Profile for ASM65816   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
<begin open letter>

Dear Colonel Panic, you loon,

    I completed my enlistment in the US Army in June of 2003, leaving the Signal Corps with the rank of SGT (E-5). I told my chain of command that I would extend my enlistment for service in Iraq. Their response was simple: "Your MOS isn't needed." Meaning they had enough doing my job already.

On my DD Form 214:
    Type of Separation: Release from Active Duty
    Character of Service: Honorable

Your ongoing rants indicate serious personality disorders, but you see nothing wrong with your unending hostility and denial because "you were in real war." The fact you use "I'm a veteran" over and over and over leads me to believe you can't find a better reason for people to listen to you. That's actually rather pathetic.

<end letter>

I don't post a lot. It usually takes a couple of really extreme leftist rants with serious distortions on reality before I say anything political. If I call someone a psychotic nut-bag, it's because the person recommends something like hanging well-known public figures at half-time in the Superbowl and broadcasting the execution to the world.

If the "half a dozen" leftist lunatics want to push hostility, I can respond with some very nasty observations and conclusions about them and not resort to obscenities or slander.

Go ahead, make more personal attacks against me. I'll change my policy and "always" post commentary on the least civilized region on earth.

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Once a proud programmer of Apple II's, he now spends his days and nights in cheap dives fraternizing with exotic dancers....

Posts: 1035 | From: Third rock from sun. | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged
GrumpySteen

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Icon 10 posted June 02, 2007 10:33      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
ASM65816 wrote:
I'll change my policy and "always" post commentary on the least civilized region on earth.

Scientology?

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Worst. Celibate. Ever.

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spungo
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Icon 1 posted June 02, 2007 10:49      Profile for spungo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Hey, aren't we all just trying to get along? [Wink]

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Shameless plug. (Please forgive me.)

Posts: 6530 | From: Noba Scoba | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
ASM65816
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Icon 4 posted June 02, 2007 13:17      Profile for ASM65816   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Scientology?
Read what you quoted again...... <nit-picking>

quote:
region (noun): an area or division, esp. part of a country or the world having definable characteristics but not always fixed boundaries.


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Once a proud programmer of Apple II's, he now spends his days and nights in cheap dives fraternizing with exotic dancers....

Posts: 1035 | From: Third rock from sun. | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged
garlicguy

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Icon 1 posted June 02, 2007 13:20      Profile for garlicguy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by spungo:
Hey, aren't we all just trying to get along? [Wink]

Most are, other than those* who only attack the person rather than defending their own argument.

*Seems to vary depending on the day, with a notable exception or two. [Big Grin]  -

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I don't know what I was thinking... it seemed like a good idea at the time.

Posts: 3753 | From: Pluto, no matter what you call it, is still my home. | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
GrumpySteen

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Icon 1 posted June 02, 2007 14:21      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
ASM65816:
Read what you quoted again...... <nit-picking>

Well, it -would- have been funny if you'd said religion [Big Grin]

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Worst. Celibate. Ever.

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fs

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Icon 1 posted June 02, 2007 14:55      Profile for fs   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by maximile:
I think those few might be surprised by how many people like me there are, who read these threads with interest, are affected by them but don't feel they have anything of value to add and so keep quiet.

(I just thought that was a very good point and worth reiterating.)

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I'm in ur database, makin' moar recordz.

Posts: 1973 | From: The Cat Ship | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
WinterSolstice

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Icon 1 posted June 02, 2007 17:09      Profile for WinterSolstice     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by fs:
quote:
Originally posted by maximile:
I think those few might be surprised by how many people like me there are, who read these threads with interest, are affected by them but don't feel they have anything of value to add and so keep quiet.

(I just thought that was a very good point and worth reiterating.)
Never stops me from blabbering [Big Grin]

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An operating system should be like a light switch... simple, effective, easy to use, and designed for everyone.

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stevenback7
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Icon 1 posted June 02, 2007 20:09      Profile for stevenback7   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I have a question, and since you guys are apparently "veterans" you might be able to answer this,

A lot of people say they join the army to serve and protect there country.

Nothing wrong with that, but my question is, what are they protecting the US from?

With all that money you guys could have saved by not going to war you could have eliminated several diseases or viruses or poverty or anything.

By spending that money on something else then war you could have saved more lives then you are "saving" in Iraq.

By not going to war you could have made a lot less enemies which would have protected your country.

Is the threat of terrorist any lower since the war has started?

has the loss of thousands upon thousands of people. And the disruption of millions upon millions of families, make a difference?

Is there less Nuclear weapons in the world?

just something which came to my mind when reading this.

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Comic Book Guy: There is no emoticon for what i'm feeling.

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GrumpySteen

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Icon 1 posted June 02, 2007 20:13      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
stevenback7 wrote:
Nothing wrong with that, but my question is, what are they protecting the US from?

Please read the history leading up to WWII and the actions (or lack thereof) of the US prior to being attacked by Japan.

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Worst. Celibate. Ever.

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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted June 02, 2007 20:51      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Steen:
Please read the history leading up to WWII and the actions (or lack thereof) of the US prior to being attacked by Japan.

Poor example to use there Steen.

Pre-WW2 Asia is hardly an example of benign hands-offism by the western powers.

Japan was one of the few parts of Asia that wasn't under western domination. You had the French in Indochina, the Dutch in Indonesia, the Americans in the Philippines, the Portuguese in Timor, the Australians in Papua New Guinea, who's-who of western powers carving up China into "spheres of influence", and the British controlled just about everywhere else.

It's not hard to see how the Japanese could have concluded that the only way to avoid the same fate as their neighbours was to strike first while most of the whiteys were distracted by events in Europe.

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If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

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GrumpySteen

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Icon 1 posted June 02, 2007 21:08      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
The Famous Druid:
It's not hard to see how the Japanese could have concluded that the only way to avoid the same fate as their neighbours was to strike first while most of the whiteys were distracted by events in Europe.

And they struck at the one country that was sitting on it's ass saying "the war is their problem, we don't need to be involved", which surprised and motivated the US public into the largest war effort ever seen. To quote someone I knew in high school "smooth move, ex-lax."

The point is, even when the US is not being an aggressor, other countries are not always going to leave the US alone. That threat is what the military is defending the country from in times of peace.

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Worst. Celibate. Ever.

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ASM65816
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Icon 1 posted June 03, 2007 00:45      Profile for ASM65816   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
By not going to war you could have made a lot less enemies which would have protected your country.
Answer: "Not going to war" does not assure peace.

Let's use the "liberal" view that Clinton was one of the greatest US presidents, and consider that he was in office for eight years.

While he was in office:
  • Terrorists bombed the World Trade Center (Feb 26, 1993), and the only reason it didn't collapse is they underestimated the amount of explosives required.
     
  • In February 1998, Islamic supporters of terrorism issued a fatwa declaring that "it is the duty of every Muslim to kill Americans, civilian and military, everywhere it is possible to do so."
     
  • "The 2000 millennium attack plots were terrorist attacks planned by members of al-Qaeda to occur on or near January 1, 2000: the bombing of four sites in Jordan, the bombing of Los Angeles International Airport (LAX), and the bombing of the U.S. Navy ship USS The Sullivans. The first two plots were foiled by law enforcement agencies; the third was aborted after a mistake occurred." (Wikipedia)

As a reminder, Clinton's actions in Bosnia probably saved thousands of Muslims there. At the very least, it showed a US commitment to saving Muslims from genocide after UN efforts were "unimpressive."

If eight years of effort by a great US president aren't enough for terrorists to consider seeking a nonviolent position towards the US, then the likelihood of peace with terrorists under terms acceptable to the US are essentially nil.

quote:
What are they protecting the US from?
Any and every foreign threat, typically after "diplomacy" fails to secure protection.

As an example of what gets protected: "The military provides the US with protection from treaty violation through deterrents in the form of military action."

Unfortunately, there are times when countries absolutely refuse to abide by treaties, and the US tells them it won't be tolerated, and after that the bombers come out. (extreme simplification)

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Once a proud programmer of Apple II's, he now spends his days and nights in cheap dives fraternizing with exotic dancers....

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fs

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Icon 1 posted June 03, 2007 01:35      Profile for fs   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by ASM65816:
If eight years of effort by a great US president aren't enough for terrorists to consider seeking a nonviolent position towards the US, then the likelihood of peace with terrorists under terms acceptable to the US are essentially nil.

The whole point in being a terrorist is that you are willing to overstep any and all social, moral, and ethical boudaries in the furthering of your cause. It's often coupled with some sort of self righteous delusion.

The war in Iraq, specifically, has nothing to do with terrorism. We've been shown over and over again that the reasons given for the war have been incorrect. (Some might refer to them as "lies.")

That what the U.S. has done in Iraq has created exactly the sort of environment in which terrorism develops and thrives is obvious. But, and one should be very clear on this, hostile actions taken by Iraqi citizens against U.S. troops that have invaded their country are a very very different thing than attacking civilian targets in a country thousands of miles from your own to further an agenda.

Put it this way, Bush is a psycho mothafscker and his regime is responsible for many human rights violations (Gitmo, etc.) and civil rights violations of his own people (wiretapping, etc.) There is even barbaric legislation specifically denying rights and freedoms to women (South Dakota abortion ban) enacted in parts of the U.S. and the Bush regime is not only aware of, but supports it. There were serious irregularities in both elections that put Bush in power.

If someone showed up and invaded your country to free you from the tyranny of Bush and cronies, would you welcome them with open arms and sit back while they restructured your country and government into what they believe is best for you? If you didn't, would that make you a terrorist?

Something to think on.

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I'm in ur database, makin' moar recordz.

Posts: 1973 | From: The Cat Ship | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
Rhonwyyn

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Icon 1 posted June 03, 2007 05:04      Profile for Rhonwyyn   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by fs:

There is even barbaric legislation specifically denying rights and freedoms to women (South Dakota abortion ban) enacted in parts of the U.S. and the Bush regime is not only aware of, but supports it.

And then there's the legislation that protects women - born and especially those who are unborn - from the barbaric act of abortion. If there's anything this presidency has done right it's that.

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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted June 03, 2007 05:15      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by ASM65816:
I told my chain of command that I would extend my enlistment for service in Iraq. Their response was simple: "Your MOS isn't needed."

Hmmm...

June 2003: Uncle Sam's invaded 2 countries in the last year and a half, and is sabre-rattling up to invade a few more members of 'The Axis of evil'. In walks an experienced soldier who wants to extend his enlistment, and he's told he's not wanted.

Can't imagine why...

--------------------
If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

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stevenback7
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Icon 1 posted June 03, 2007 08:41      Profile for stevenback7   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by ASM65816:
quote:
By not going to war you could have made a lot less enemies which would have protected your country.
Answer: "Not going to war" does not assure peace.


quote:
What are they protecting the US from?
Any and every foreign threat, typically after "diplomacy" fails to secure protection.

As an example of what gets protected: "The military provides the US with protection from treaty violation through deterrents in the form of military action."

Unfortunately, there are times when countries absolutely refuse to abide by treaties, and the US tells them it won't be tolerated, and after that the bombers come out. (extreme simplification)

okay ... going to war doesn't assure peace either. I think this is one thing which qualifies a lot of Americans as "stupid" for thinking that if we go to war everyone will be happy and we will have peace. This is not something which is questionable. The fact is the amount of terrorist have increased because of the US invading Iraq. The chance of the US being hit by terrorist has increased after invading Iraq. The support from allies of the US has decreased.

So has anything positive come from this War?

What treaties ???

The original reason for invading Iraq was because according to the US they had nuclear weapons which they didn't disclose to the UN. Turns out they actually didn't have any nuclear weapons. So you can't say the US invaded Iraq because they broke any treaties because they didn't break anything major. Plus the US had no permision to attack Iraq. The UN clearly said that we are not invading Iraq because there is no evidence of nuclear weapons but the US refused to listen and attacked anyways. So should we (the world) attack the US now because they refused to listen and it won't be tolerated so the UN should pull out its bombers.

--------------------
Comic Book Guy: There is no emoticon for what i'm feeling.

Posts: 1199 | From: Canada eh? | Registered: May 2006  |  IP: Logged
stevenback7
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Icon 1 posted June 03, 2007 08:52      Profile for stevenback7   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Steen:
stevenback7 wrote:
Nothing wrong with that, but my question is, what are they protecting the US from?

Please read the history leading up to WWII and the actions (or lack thereof) of the US prior to being attacked by Japan.

Yes, I know you should protect your own country. And one way you should be protected is with a good military. But the fact is just because you have a military doesn't mean you have to use it to attack a country "one on one". A lot of countries and more specifically all of Europe as an example has a good military. They have good equipment and they keep well trained. But they don't anymore attack a single country by themselves. Instead they go through the UN and NATO. NATO says Afganistan is having a problem with terrorist so each country in NATO which is able to contributes "x" amount of soldiers and equipment to that war. The fact is America thinks 50 years behind Europe. The gap is slowly closing and hopefuly one day America will think the way Europe does.

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CommanderShroom
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Icon 1 posted June 03, 2007 09:04      Profile for CommanderShroom     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
To place the UN on a pedestal is pure fallacy. They are nothing more than a group of countries that bargain amongst each other. Much like the debacle of Lebanon. Pledges and late night sessions to wind doing no more than rattle sabers themselves.

This does not mean I condone current US policy whatsoever. But to believe that any nation in this world has somehow a spotless record in the ways of humanitarianism is idiotic at best. And deadly at worst. That type of thought is part of the reason the US has wound up in the situation we are currently in. Hubris.

Notice I said part. Human thought, emotion, mob mentality. These things are not black and white situations, nor are the tides of governments so easily mapped out. Everything that is ever spoken here is just what we believe. Until anyone can truly see into the depths their fellow man and read them like a book, will we ever know the true motivations of anyone's actions. Until then, we only have conjectures.

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Does he know our big secret?
Has one of us confessed?
'Bout the wires circuits and motors
Buried in our chest

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