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Author Topic: John Waters Censored?!
Bibo
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Icon 13 posted September 13, 2005 23:48      Profile for Bibo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I finally got around to renting the John Waters film " A Dirty Shame " from Hollywood video only to find myself pissed off that I rented a censored version! I noticed lips not matching the words coming out of the actors mouths and scenes just not making complete sense due to what I found out was missing bits and pieces. After further investigation it turns out I rented the "R" rated version of this film and not the theatrical release that was rated "NC-17"! Hollywood Video only carries the "Neuter" version. I can't believe John Waters agreed to the studio releasing what is basically an edited for TV version of this film! I thought Hollywood Video was better than this. This is the reason why I canceled my Blockbuster Video membership years ago.

>end of rant

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Serenak

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Icon 1 posted September 14, 2005 02:14      Profile for Serenak     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Doncha just hate it when that happens...

Them dog'gone melon farmers can't stop funning with the blasted films....

Like we're too sensitive to hear such language as corn salter!

[Wink]

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ewomack
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Icon 1 posted September 14, 2005 10:08      Profile for ewomack   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I'm <bleep><bleep> about <bleep><bleep> that. What the <bleep> is <bleep><bleep><bleep>? <bleep>!

<bleep><bleep><bleep><bleep>!!!!!!

[Mad]

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bull3t
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Icon 1 posted September 15, 2005 07:48      Profile for bull3t     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
thats really lame. i too am a john waters fan, and i feel its an outrage to censor movies. people are too over sensitive in this country now. i live in utah, where there are "cleaned up" movie stores. the mormons actually edit movies to be G and PG. I mean, they edit ALOT of movies. Its frickin rediculous.

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Serenak

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Icon 1 posted September 15, 2005 09:12      Profile for Serenak     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
RESEVOIR DOGS (cut for language version)...

I'm Mr Blue... You're Mr Pink... Let's go to work....
sound effects: {bang bang bang}
Roll closing credits....
[Wink]

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"So if you want my address - it's No. 1 at the end of the bar, where I sit with the broken angels, clutching at straws and nursing my scars..."

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drunkennewfiemidget
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Icon 1 posted September 15, 2005 09:32      Profile for drunkennewfiemidget     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Serenak:
RESEVOIR DOGS (cut for language version)...

I'm Mr Blue... You're Mr Pink... Let's go to work....
sound effects: {bang bang bang}
Roll closing credits....
[Wink]

Nah.. 10% of the discussion about tipping at the beginning would make it.
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Chesty
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Icon 1 posted September 15, 2005 09:40      Profile for Chesty         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Personally I think that many writers use profanity because they can't think of other words to express themselves. I get kind of sick of the f word because it is used so much.

I never liked anything john waters did (i felt kind of dirty after hairspray, not because I'm a prude but because it's just all greasy and dirty feeling) - I just don't like the look fo his films.

Just looking at him makes me want to go wash.

My wife, however, Thinks he's the bees knees (she's from MD, poor thing)

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Rhonwyyn

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Icon 1 posted September 15, 2005 14:55      Profile for Rhonwyyn   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Once upon a time, foul language was considered that. Foul. I hate watching movies where I have to fast forward through scenes where everything's "F--- this" and "F--- that." It's like the writers weren't intelligent enough to use real words. And blatant sexual references too... can't stand 'em when watching with my family or in mixed company.

There are a bunch of movies that I haven't watched because they're rated R or PG-13 for language and sexual references. They sound like great stories, but I'm not willing to let the other junk in them pollute my mind or eyes. I, for one, would love to get my hands on some of those edited movies.

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maximile

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Icon 1 posted September 15, 2005 17:24      Profile for maximile   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
While there are plenty of films that use swear words as a way to avoid having to think of 'real words', Tarantino's films could not survive without them. He can write such beautiful dialogue, and frequently does. He uses bad language as a way of conveying a culture, or an attitude.

Another thing that he said that stuck in my mind was this (far from verbatim): "When a word has that much ability to hurt people, I want to shout it from the rooftops over and over until it loses its power" - by showing a society in which it is commonplace, the words become less offensive.

At times, a well-placed swearword can be a fantastic tool in storytelling.

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Xanthine

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Icon 1 posted September 15, 2005 17:38      Profile for Xanthine     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
There's also those moments when a swear word is downright compulsory...
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Rhonwyyn

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Icon 1 posted September 15, 2005 17:49      Profile for Rhonwyyn   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Max— And that's why I haven't knowingly watched any Tarentino films. I'm sure he's a brilliant filmmaker, but the subjects of his films haven't appealed to my sense of decency or modesty.

I'm not sure how overusing a word eliminates its meaning. F*ck is still forceful/violent copulation. Crap and sh*t are still feces. Motherf**ker still conveys such horrifying acts that I don't even want to contemplate them. Why do we need or even want such words to become commonplace in our society?

(And as far as expressing anger and other tumultuous emotions, onomatopoeias are much more colorful and expressive than any of the words I previously cited.)

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csk

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Icon 1 posted September 15, 2005 18:08      Profile for csk     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Rhonwyyn:
I'm not sure how overusing a word eliminates its meaning. F*ck is still forceful/violent copulation. Crap and sh*t are still feces. Motherf**ker still conveys such horrifying acts that I don't even want to contemplate them. Why do we need or even want such words to become commonplace in our society?

On the flipside of the coin, once those words lose their offensiveness (which will happen, over time, it's already starting to), what will they be replaced by? From a etymological point of view, I'm fascinated to see what happens. I mean, if crap, sh*t, and faeces all mean the same thing, it's an arbitrary distinction that two out of the three are offensive, and one isn't. It's those arbitrary distinctions that are vanishing.

I'd also disagree about your definition of F*ck, the forceful/violent aspect of that definition has all but gone now. I guess there's an implied "vigorous" in there, but, umm, I don't think that's an issue, to put it tactfully.

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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted September 15, 2005 18:37      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by csk:
I mean, if crap, sh*t, and faeces all mean the same thing, it's an arbitrary distinction that two out of the three are offensive, and one isn't.

What's always puzzled me is that 'fsck' is seen as being quite a strongly offensive word, while 'bugger' is only mildly offensive, even though the act it describes would be more offensive to the kind of people who complain about that sort of thing.

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fs

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Icon 1 posted September 15, 2005 18:51      Profile for fs   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Rhonwyyn:
Max— And that's why I haven't knowingly watched any Tarentino films. I'm sure he's a brilliant filmmaker, but the subjects of his films haven't appealed to my sense of decency or modesty.

Quentin Tarantino's movies are neither decent nor modest. However, I would rather watch a Tarantino movie any day over the same old bland, pre-chewed blockbuster tripe that is churned out by Hollywood with surprising regularity. I like the visceral quality of Tarantino movies. It's a bit difficult to achieve visceral when all the characters run around saying "fudge!" and "gosh!"


quote:
Originally posted by Rhonwyyn:
F*ck is still forceful/violent copulation.

Actually, F--- in modern usage retains very little relation to any act of copulation at all. Applying that meaning in context makes most statements where it is used nonsensical. If you Google looking for the origin of the word, you will also find some interesting links on usage.
Google it.

...

This conversation brings to mind my freshman English lit teacher, who came into class on the first day and the first thing he did was begin swearing like a motherf...

Anyway, the point that he was making involved the sounds of the words and not their meaning. For instance, short vowels and harsh consonants sound more offensive. Long vowels and soft consonants sound more melodic. I suppose he could have demonstrated the point using less colorful language, but 10 years later I still remember the lesson.

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Rhonwyyn

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Icon 1 posted September 15, 2005 18:58      Profile for Rhonwyyn   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
TFD— The only instance that I've heard Americans use "bugger" is when Xanthine used it in one of her posts/topics. I'm guessing it's a Brit word that doesn't have near the connotations over here that it would over there.

Maybe in mainstream society my perspective on the use of foul language doesn't have much meaning. Thing is, my community is off the beaten path. While we aren't unaware of the world, we don't like to participate in all parts of it.

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csk

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Icon 1 posted September 15, 2005 19:14      Profile for csk     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Rhonwyyn:
TFD— The only instance that I've heard Americans use "bugger" is when Xanthine used it in one of her posts/topics. I'm guessing it's a Brit word that doesn't have near the connotations over here that it would over there.

Well, as TFD said, the connotations are a lot softer than the original meaning of the word, even over here. For example, when the "Bugger" Toyota ads were running on national TV, there were a handful of complaints, but overall the ads were hailed as really funny. Given that the original meaning is basically "a practicer of sodomy", it's changed a fair bit.

Actually, another anecdote, if I remember correctly, was some politician referring to some guy as a "silly old bugger". There was a huge outcry, but from memory, it was the silly and old parts that people found offensive, not the bugger part.

quote:
Maybe in mainstream society my perspective on the use of foul language doesn't have much meaning. Thing is, my community is off the beaten path. While we aren't unaware of the world, we don't like to participate in all parts of it.
There's a widening gap between Christians and non Christians on this issue[1]. Let alone the fact that there's variation between Christians about what words are OK and not OK ("crap" is a good example of a borderline one). Given that the exhortation is to avoid foul language, and eventually all these words will become not foul language, even Christians will change over time, I suspect.

[1] I'm unsure of other religion's theologies on swearing, so I'll just talk about the one I know...

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Icon 1 posted September 15, 2005 19:31      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by csk:
the exhortation is to avoid foul language

Better steer clear of this thread then [Wink]

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Rhonwyyn

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Icon 1 posted September 15, 2005 19:35      Profile for Rhonwyyn   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Even moreso than Christianity, in early America good manners were expected from everybody, especially children, and men in the presence of women. Clean language was considered a sign of respect and decency. From the stories I've heard from people who lived around the turn of the 20th century, society was fun and intelligent and didn't provide as many opportunities to cringe from offensive language/behavior.

Am I advocating a return to that era? No, 'cause women still weren't allowed to vote, the Civil Rights Act of 1954 (IIRC) hadn't been passed, airplanes still weren't a popular mode of transportation, the Internet hadn't even been considered, etc. Still, I do like the values of those days. Our society may be a lot more respectful and considerate of each other if some of the things now considered acceptable behavior were relegated to the classification of indecent and derided by society.

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Rhonwyyn

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Icon 1 posted September 15, 2005 19:37      Profile for Rhonwyyn   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by The Famous Druid:
quote:
Originally posted by csk:
the exhortation is to avoid foul language

Better steer clear of this thread then [Wink]
He said "Foul," not "Fowl," silly! [Razz]

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Icon 1 posted September 15, 2005 20:26      Profile for sumnchai     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I think John Waters films resonate with people who have lived in Baltimore, and specifically the area of Hamden. It's an awesome neighborhood. (My girlfriend was brought up in Medfield - one street over.) It's really cool to see a Waters film and realize how much of Bawlmer he manages to fit in. Pecker was pure genius!

After all - why B-less when you can B-more.

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fs

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Icon 1 posted September 15, 2005 20:30      Profile for fs   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Rhonwyyn:
Even moreso than Christianity, in early America good manners were expected from everybody, especially children, and men in the presence of women. Clean language was considered a sign of respect and decency.

I would rather have men swear in front of me than be treated like chattle, without recourse under law if my husband decided to beat or rape me. I would prefer to have the right to vote, to have property rights, to have an equal education and equal rights...

I don't know that I agree that clean language is a sign of respect and decency in that case. While "decent" people may have used clean language in the presence of women, I question what sort of respect it actually signifies. I don't know many people that use foul language in the presence of children, but I would attribute the conscious effort to modify one's language to the belief that children are weak and malleable and in need of protection from the coarser elements of society.

(I have nothing against manners, of course. I wouldn't take my 6 year old nephew to see a Quentin Tarantino movie, for example.)

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Icon 1 posted September 15, 2005 21:54      Profile for dragonman97   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Xanthine:
There's also those moments when a swear word is downright compulsory...

Correct. When you kill the uplink of the switch (or network appliance/computer) that you are remotely administering, you are required to yell a profanity no weaker than "Shit!" "Oh, fsck!" is recommended, and "Fscking shit, how the fsck could I have done something that bloody stupid," is quite likely. Naturally, this is said one onosecond after typing/clicking "Apply changes." [Wink]

Can I get a show of hands? [Wink]

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Icon 1 posted September 15, 2005 21:56      Profile for alfrin     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by dragonman97:
quote:
Originally posted by Xanthine:
There's also those moments when a swear word is downright compulsory...

Correct. When you kill the uplink of the switch (or network appliance/computer) that you are remotely administering, you are required to yell a profanity no weaker than "Shit!" "Oh, fsck!" is recommended, and "Fscking shit, how the fsck could I have done something that bloody stupid," is quite likely. Naturally, this is said one onosecond after typing/clicking "Apply changes." [Wink]

Can I get a show of hands? [Wink]

Someone tell me I'm not the only one who's set the resolution on your windows computer higher than your monitor supports, and XP for some reason didn't have a countdown "Test this resoloution" thing for some reason this time...

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Icon 1 posted September 15, 2005 22:11      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by dragonman97:
you are required to yell a profanity no weaker than "Shit!" "Oh, fsck!" is recommended, and "Fscking shit, how the fsck could I have done something that bloody stupid," is quite likely. Naturally, this is said one onosecond after typing/clicking "Apply changes." [Wink]

Can I get a show of hands? [Wink]

fsck yeah!

(/me wonders if that's how the fsck utility got it's name, because it's used to repair fsck-ed up fileystems)

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Allan
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Icon 1 posted September 15, 2005 22:25      Profile for Allan     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by The Famous Druid:
...(/me wonders if that's how the fsck utility got it's name, because it's used to repair fsck-ed up fileystems)

as far as I know it's much more dull than that: File System ChecK, but that might be complete bollocks.

edit: I do have a sneaking suspicion that TFD knows unix, so I might have just taken a walk down gullible street

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