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Author Topic: I Support Gender Equality
GrumpySteen

Solid Nitrozanium SuperFan
Member # 170

Icon 10 posted August 04, 2009 13:55      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Her: You've got to kiss a lot of frogs before you find a prince.

Me: That goes for men too... we have to kiss a lot of pigs before we find a princess.

Her: *jaw drops*

Me: I guess it's not nice to refer to people as animals, is it? I'll try to refrain from now on if you'll do the same.

Her: *stomps off without saying a word*


I wonder if I'm going to have another chat with HR soon.

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Worst. Celibate. Ever.

Posts: 6364 | From: Tennessee | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged
The Famous Druid

Gold Hearted SuperFan!
Member # 1769

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted August 04, 2009 17:15      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Sexist pi... um... person. [Wink]

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If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

Posts: 10680 | From: Melbourne, Australia | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
TMBWITW,PB

Member # 1734

Member Rated:
5
Icon 1 posted August 04, 2009 21:56      Profile for TMBWITW,PB     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Except the whole frog/prince thing refers to a traditional fairy tale whereas you just made up the pig/princess thing.

Personally I wouldn't mind it if you had picked a different animal, but there is a history of "pig" being used as a derogatory term for women while "frog" directed at men is almost exclusively used in the context of kissing and princes. (Or the French I guess.)

But I do always approve of challenging people's paradigms. [thumbsup]

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"Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and it may be necessary from time to time to give a stupid or misinformed beholder a black eye."
—Miss Piggy

Posts: 4010 | From: my couch | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
Serenak

Member # 2950

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted August 05, 2009 08:42      Profile for Serenak     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Peebs

not sure about where you come from but around here the term "pig" is usually used in a derogatory term towards men as in "he is such a (adjective) pig" and I do not believe I have ever seen it used in relation to a woman, that hono(u)r usually falls to cow or bitch - however I would guess Steen chose the Pig/Princess pairing because it ties to (at the very least) the Arthurian tale of the princess who was beautiful half the day and had a pig's face the other half, and of course to the saying lipstick on a pig...

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"So if you want my address - it's No. 1 at the end of the bar, where I sit with the broken angels, clutching at straws and nursing my scars..."

Posts: 1937 | From: Suffolk England | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged
TMBWITW,PB

Member # 1734

Member Rated:
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Icon 1 posted August 05, 2009 09:01      Profile for TMBWITW,PB     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I've seen "pig" directed at men too in the contexts you're saying, but "fat pig" is something I have heard all too often, directed at myself and other women.

quote:
however I would guess Steen chose the Pig/Princess pairing because it ties to (at the very least) the Arthurian tale of the princess who was beautiful half the day and had a pig's face the other half,
I don't think I'm familiar with that one. Steen, is that why you picked it?

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"Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and it may be necessary from time to time to give a stupid or misinformed beholder a black eye."
—Miss Piggy

Posts: 4010 | From: my couch | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
GrumpySteen

Solid Nitrozanium SuperFan
Member # 170

Icon 1 posted August 05, 2009 10:40      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
It was just the first offensive-ish animal that came to mind. The exchange wasn't one with any great depth or thought put into it. *shrug*

Anyway...

If frogs aren't viewed as disgusting... something you shouldn't be willing to touch, much less kiss... what is the point of having the prince turned into one? Would the tale work if the prince had been turned into a cute, cuddly kitten? Of course not, because people will play with kittens, pet them and even kiss them. Within a week, the curse would have been broken. The tale only works because nobody would kiss a frog.

To say "you have to kiss a lot of frogs before you find a prince" is to say that most men are disgusting and you should only interact with them is to find the rare one who turns out to not be as disgusting as the rest. That this comes from a fairy tale does not excuse it. To use a somewhat hyperbolic example, Sleeping Beauty was awakened by being raped in her sleep far more often than by being kissed. That this is a fairy tale and that she lived happily ever after with her rapist does not make rape an acceptable way to wake up a woman who sleeps through her alarm clock.

In our society, a woman at work can say that all men are pigs and will most likely face no punishment. A man who says that all women are bitches, however, will be lucky if he isn't fired. Both statements are sexist and merit punishment, but derogatory statements about men are generally seen as acceptable. My problem with that is that it's a form of dehumanization which always the first step toward becoming offensively sexist/racist/bigoted.

Perhaps my comment will get the woman in question to stop and think about things she says and she'll become a better person for it. That's not likely to happen. The alternative, however, was for me to be quiet and give my passive agreement that sexism is okay. That's even less likely to happen.

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Worst. Celibate. Ever.

Posts: 6364 | From: Tennessee | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged
TheMoMan
BlabberMouth, a Blabber Odyssey
Member # 1659

Member Rated:
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Icon 1 posted August 05, 2009 11:00      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
_______________________________ GrumpySteen _______________________________

____ I have found a fast way to an interview with HR. Pick the best looking lady in the job site and tell her that "I's a good thing you are not my boss because I would be trying to do what every body has always said should be done to the Boss."

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Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.


Benjamin Franklin,

Posts: 5848 | From: Just South of the Huron National Forest, in the water shed of the Rifle River | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
Serenak

Member # 2950

Member Rated:
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Icon 1 posted August 05, 2009 13:07      Profile for Serenak     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Seems the woman/lady/princess in question was Ragnelle and a quick precis of the tale can be found here http://www.celtic-twilight.com/camelot/bruce_dictionary/index_r.htm as is common with such folk tales the version I was familiar with varied slighty in some of it's details but you get the gist

For some reason here in the UK the insult would almost certainly be “fat cow” if aimed at a woman (and no I don’t get why that should be either, unless it infers stupidity and being only good for producing milk) but the cow/princess pairing has neither the immediacy nor the gratifying alliteration of pig/princess

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"So if you want my address - it's No. 1 at the end of the bar, where I sit with the broken angels, clutching at straws and nursing my scars..."

Posts: 1937 | From: Suffolk England | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged


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